Bullying Email from N-stepdaughter to DH

[Butterfly]

Every year, same old tired attempts to control.  DH's abusive N ex-wife tries to control his access to his grown children and uses those same grown children to do the dirty work.  (DH divorced her over thirty years ago.)  DH emailed grown children to invite them to visit us while they were in town during the holidays, offering to have them over for a meal, etc.  Both grown children are over age 35 and are financially successful and physically healthy.  Co-D stepson did not respond to the invitation at all.  And, instead of responding to our invitation, here is whate N-stepdaughter wrote: 

"So Dad can you come over to our house [meaning DH's ex-wife's house which is about a fifteen-minute drive away from our home] on the 26th? Mom said she would leave, no problem, if you don't feel like visiting with her. It would really help us out, since [Co-D stepson] and I both are traveling to get to [your state], we hoped you could travel to our neck of the woods! We'll have snacks for the kiddos and we can all just hang out and catch up. Let me know what time works for you guys.
I'll see you in 2 weeks! Can't wait. Been way too long."

Here is what I see: 
- Ignored our invitation; wants to control where, when; no consideration for me, DH or my kids;
- Paints ex-wife as the martyr, the one who will sacrifice home, hearth and comfort, so that DH can see his kids without ex-wife being there;
- N step-daughter calls her mom's house "our house" as if she and stepson are little children and DH is the dad who abandoned them (which was not the case)
- laying on the guilt trip by saying "it would really help us out" - How would it help them out?  They can't drive for fifteen minutes to see their father and siblings?
  Or perhaps drive to a nearby restaurant to have a meal with us?  Does the visit have to be at ex-wife's house?
- and the final straw - does not even ask us if this suits or if the date suits but simply wants to know what time we will be there.

Egad!   Okay, I told you what I see in the email.  Please, oh wise ones, tell me what you see?  I would be so grateful.

Butterfly

[BonesMS]

Every year, same old tired attempts to control.  DH's abusive N ex-wife tries to control his access to his grown children and uses those same grown children to do the dirty work.  (DH divorced her over thirty years ago.)  DH emailed grown children to invite them to visit us while they were in town during the holidays, offering to have them over for a meal, etc.  Both grown children are over age 35 and are financially successful and physically healthy.  Co-D stepson did not respond to the invitation at all.  And, instead of responding to our invitation, here is whate N-stepdaughter wrote: 

"So Dad can you come over to our house [meaning DH's ex-wife's house which is about a fifteen-minute drive away from our home] on the 26th? Mom said she would leave, no problem, if you don't feel like visiting with her. It would really help us out, since [Co-D stepson] and I both are traveling to get to [your state], we hoped you could travel to our neck of the woods! We'll have snacks for the kiddos and we can all just hang out and catch up. Let me know what time works for you guys.
I'll see you in 2 weeks! Can't wait. Been way too long."

Here is what I see: 
- Ignored our invitation; wants to control where, when; no consideration for me, DH or my kids;
- Paints ex-wife as the martyr, the one who will sacrifice home, hearth and comfort, so that DH can see his kids without ex-wife being there;
- N step-daughter calls her mom's house "our house" as if she and stepson are little children and DH is the dad who abandoned them (which was not the case)
- laying on the guilt trip by saying "it would really help us out" - How would it help them out?  They can't drive for fifteen minutes to see their father and siblings?
  Or perhaps drive to a nearby restaurant to have a meal with us?  Does the visit have to be at ex-wife's house?
- and the final straw - does not even ask us if this suits or if the date suits but simply wants to know what time we will be there.

Egad!   Okay, I told you what I see in the email.  Please, oh wise ones, tell me what you see?  I would be so grateful.

Butterfly

I see the same things you do.....control, manipulation, with the EX pulling the strings of the puppets that she is using as extensions of herself.

Bones

[mudpuppy]

Please, oh wise ones, tell me what you see?

I didn't have any wise ones handy, so I'll take a crack at it instead;

I see a couple of spiders inviting a couple of flies over to their web.
I'm figuring you two are the "snacks" she refers to.

mud

[lighter]

B:

I think you and your h could respond with something like this without causing big problems, and allowing yourself options:


"Dear Daughter:
We'd love to see you on the 26th, and have made reservations at (Insert acceptable restaurant around corner from Mother's house.)  Please let your mother know it was very kind of her to offer her home for the visit, but we've solved the issue of travel time, and she's off the hook. 
See you on the 26th!

Love,
Dad and stepmom"

I don't think visiting with them at step mom's would be comfortable for anyone....... what can they say if they only have to travel around the corner to visit with you at another location?

Lighter

[Butterfly]

Thank you, all!

Bones - you are so right.  They are puppets.   So even if N ex-wife is not going to be there, her cohorts will do the same amount of damage. 
Mud - That is exactly how I feel - as if I am walking into the lair of evil and I will either have to leave quickly or be prepared to be chewed up.
Lighter - Thank you for the suggestion!!!  We are copying it almost verbatim.  (It was much more diplomatic than my own response.)  And, DH feels comfortable with your words. 

Now for the hard part - not letting this upset my family's peace and dealing with the result of not capitulating in a positive way.  I think I can do it, but I worry about DH . . . 

[lighter]

Now for the hard part - not letting this upset my family's peace and dealing with the result of not capitulating in a positive way.  I think I can do it, but I worry about DH . . . 

Hmmm.... not capitulating in a "positive way?"

You mean, not allowing his ex and dd to control the visit entirely, which placed you guys in a compromised position?

If you can make reservations right around the corner from the ex's home, I don't see how your solution can be countered with any reasobale objection, but I'd make sure to have some pre-planned responses handy, should dd say something like:  "But I'd be more comfortable staying at home for the visit."

"I understand that, but I'm still uncomfortable with your mom being put upon, so making reservations round the corner means that's solved, along with not adding driving time for you guys.  I'm forwarding a menu for your convenience..... See you there ::kiss kiss::."

Stay chipper and upbeat.  ::nodding::


If sd continues to object.... dh can say.....

"I'm just not comfortable putting your mother out like that, and meeting at her home isn't going to be an option this year.  If you aren't comfortable with my choice of location, we can meet at O'Donnels, O'Flannighans, Ruby Tuesday, The Frog and the Fhurkin, or any other nearby location that can be arranged.  What works for you?"


If sd finally comes out and states that she's only willing to visit with you if you're willing to walk into the spider's lair, then...... he can say....

"As lovely as your mother's gesture is, I'm just not willing to put her out like that."

 DH should continue offering alternative locations just round the corner, and holding his ground while remaining the polite and level parent.


I don't think it's innapropriate for him to forego the visit if his dd continues to insist he meet at the ex's, and I don't think sharing his own discomfort with meeting at the ex's would be productive either.  He can continue making statements like:


"As I've already stated... whether your mother stays in the house or leaves, I'm not comfortable putting her in that position, and really hope the plan to meet at the Furkhin works out.... " or

"Even if you're comfortable putting your mother in that position, I'm not, so we need to choose another location for the visit..... " or

"Even if your mother was out of town, I think it would be more comfortable, for her and me, if we met around the corner, and I hope we can work that out." 


Oh oh!  If dh e-mails everyone involved they have the option of showing up, or not, and it's not just up to dd that way.  DD is responsible if she doesn't show, not your husband.  That puts the ball in everyone's court, and DD isn't the one controlling information, and making the decision for less irrational family members that way.

Maybe even state that you guys will be at the Frog and the Furkhin on the 26th, at 6pm to visit and btw we invited your Aunt K, Uncle Tom and 4 cousins who'll meet us there too, so won't that be nice?  If no one shows, you had a nice visit with the Aunt and Uncle and cousins, and can stop by the mom's for a minute to drop presents and get a hug from your sd..... sorry they couldn't make the visit, it was lovely and they were missed... ::kiss kiss:: Bye bye.


Your husband has to choose something he can live with, I understand.  Just too many options, and you never know what the PD's are going to pull.

Good luck,
Lighter

[Butterfly]

Thank you Lighter!!!  This is good stuff.  We are using most of it.  My DH is on a roll now--he is starting to come up with some of his own "polite and level" responses and even suggested that we visit our therapist at least once in December as a regular habit.  So proud of him.  So glad I did not send my own pithy (read sarcastic) reply. 

Thanks again.  Happy Holidays!

B

[lighter]

My DH is on a roll now--he is starting to come up with some of his own "polite and level" responses and even suggested that we visit our therapist at least once in December as a regular habit.  So proud of him.  So glad I did not send my own pithy (read sarcastic) reply. 

Thanks again.  Happy Holidays!

B

IME, sending those pithy little responses is always regretful. 

Always.

To help dispell confusion, I always include the e-mails I'm responding to, so they're all right there for everyone's reference, including my own. 

I think setting a December T appt ever year, and making it part of your holiday tradition, sounds very wise, btw; )

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Lighter's examples of calm, adult, nonreactive, untriggered statements are PERFECT examples of healthy assertiveness.
Literally, exactly like what I once heard in an assertiveness training workshop.

This is exactly how one draws boundaries without freaking out. I'm gonna practice.

Inspired,
Hops

[Butterfly]

Okay.  Situation still  not settled.  Lots of "calm, adult, nonreactive, untriggered statements" (thanks, Hops!) being emailed back to N step-daughter from DH and me.  Aaack!  This is hard.  Whatever suggestion we make, she has an objection to.  She keeps changing her reasons, changing her mind, changing her preferences . . . .  At this point, it seems as if it will end with no visit at all.  Which is fine by me.  It will be her choice.  My holiday will be much calmer without having to endure a visit with Ns. 

Thanks to you all.  Wishing you joy and peace.

B

[lighter]

Butterfly:

Is your sd coming up with reasons to keep changing location for meeting, or to stick with meeting at her mom's house?

I think sd will cancel the visit if she can't have things her way, esp if she can bait your h into taking responsibility for it, IMO.

Just keep being open, polite, and offering up alternatives, and that's all you can do.

Happy holidays, in any case:)

Lighter