Author Topic: My mum is ill  (Read 15706 times)

JustKathy

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 11:58:08 AM »
Quote
It's difficult because the stuff she writes is so wide of the mark that it makes you want to write back and tell it straight, but that's just what she wants.

Exactly! As soon as you reply, it's a huge victory for her. My NM managed to guilt me into responding four years ago when I was first told she had "terminal cancer," and I'll never forgive myself for falling for it. I think the fact that we have to question whether or not they are really ill speaks volumes. Like the boy who cried wolf, you can only fake a terminal illness so many times. One day it's going to be real, and people will question it. It's sad, but they DO they bring this on themselves.

Don't ever fear turning out like her (though I know we all have that fear). One of my better therapists once told me that, to her experience, daughters of Ns are usually very good parents because they go to such great lengths to break the cycle. You aren't like her. You wouldn't be here with us if you were.

Stay strong. I guess if there's any positive in this, it's knowing that one day they WILL die, and the letters and taunting will stop. The day will come when they can't hurt us anymore. Sometimes I hate myself for wishing death on her, but she's not human, she's evil, and evil needs to die.

Kathy

lighter

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 03:12:28 PM »
Tupp:

I'm hoping you work through this, and find you have no desire to talk about your mum, much less contact her ever again in your life.

I hope you can leave her behind, and head into unchartered waters.

When you get to a certain point, you stop making the same mistakes, not that you stop making mistakes.

You just starting making new ones.

For my part, I think you're better off with a non negotiable NC in place with your mum, but you're the one who has to get through your day, and you're the one who has to make peace with it.

I wonder, what advice would you give to someone else in exactly your situation, Tupp?

Rhetorical, but not really ((((Tupp and son.))))

Lighter


Twoapenny

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2013, 05:59:31 PM »
Tired, have had a shitty day so will write more tomorrow but for now


I'M RUNNING FOR THE BLOODY HILLS, SHE IS BEYOND HELP AND I WANT HER OUT OF MY LIFE, MY MIND, MY AIR SPACE FOR EVER.  DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING BUT I AM NOT THINKING IT ANYMORE!  ARRGGHH!

Thank you all for being there and understanding.  You are all amazing.  Thank you xx

JustKathy

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2013, 08:27:42 PM »
{{{{{{ Tup }}}}}}

BonesMS

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 05:50:28 AM »
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Back Off Bug-A-Loo!

Twoapenny

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 06:59:56 AM »
Quote
It's difficult because the stuff she writes is so wide of the mark that it makes you want to write back and tell it straight, but that's just what she wants.

Exactly! As soon as you reply, it's a huge victory for her. My NM managed to guilt me into responding four years ago when I was first told she had "terminal cancer," and I'll never forgive myself for falling for it. I think the fact that we have to question whether or not they are really ill speaks volumes. Like the boy who cried wolf, you can only fake a terminal illness so many times. One day it's going to be real, and people will question it. It's sad, but they DO they bring this on themselves.

Don't ever fear turning out like her (though I know we all have that fear). One of my better therapists once told me that, to her experience, daughters of Ns are usually very good parents because they go to such great lengths to break the cycle. You aren't like her. You wouldn't be here with us if you were.

Stay strong. I guess if there's any positive in this, it's knowing that one day they WILL die, and the letters and taunting will stop. The day will come when they can't hurt us anymore. Sometimes I hate myself for wishing death on her, but she's not human, she's evil, and evil needs to die.

Kathy

Kathy, I think there's a lot there that resonates with me.  It's not in my nature to turn my back on someone who is ill or in pain - to me that's a very inhumane thing to do.  I feel very deeply for people who are lonely or isolated - I suppose because I have been for so much of my life - and I honestly would happily spend time with anyone who would benefit from a little human company, which we all need from time to time.

Like you, I feel her death is the only answer.  I've had hassle from my younger sister before but she's like your dad, she's just doing as she's told and won't carry it along on her own.  But again, to wish someone were dead is so far from who I am and the sort of person I genuinely am deep inside that it feels so wrong to feel like that.

I suppose what I am starting to realise now is that she is just not human.  She has written to my step-sister and she's carried on in the way she always has - claiming she's done things she hasn't, claiming other people have done things they haven't, denying things she has done, playing one person off against another, basically painting herself as a picture perfect victim who has never done anyone any harm and who is surrounded by nasty, viscious people who are all jealous of her and who wish her harm, despite the fact she's never done anything to them.  It's complete fantasy.  There's no learning process there, never has been.  She's been this way for all of her adult life - 50 or so years.  I think part of me thought that as she got older and her own death became more likely that she'd at least accept she'd done wrong, if only to further her own agenda (ie seek forgiveness before she died or see her grandchildren one more time, that sort of thing).  But there's no aspect of that about her.  She's so full of poison and judgement, she just doesn't recognise other people's feelings or emotions at all.

I was reading an article yesterday about the importance of early intervention and intensive therapy in autism.  My son never got that, because of the lies she kept telling about him.  It makes me so angry, what she did may have affected his entire life but she truly doesn't care.  I've agonised over decisions I've made regarding contact, telling people things, reporting my stepdad and so on.  I've never taken decisions like that likely and I've had terrible sleepless nights wondering if I've done the right thing or made the right choice.  She's like a child playing with a doll's house, just placing people wherever suits her and picking them up and putting them down again at will.

I suppose the positive thing about this is that I have seen the reality now.  I think I've softened over the years I haven't been in touch with her.  At least I've realised in time and I am keeping well away!  Thank you xx

Hopalong

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2013, 10:30:34 PM »
Your thread title says it all, Tupp.

I'm so sorry.

Hops
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Twoapenny

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2013, 03:22:40 AM »
Hi everyone,

Sorry, I've been a bit quiet, needed to get my head together a bit.

In a way this has been good, it showed me there was more I needed to sort out in my own mind and I hadn't realised that, I thought I was 'done' where my mum is concerned.

It's made me realise, finally, that her brain is hard wired in a very different way and she simply can't live in a way that most people do.  I am still people pleasing and putting others first all the time and I really need to work on that now, it's getting ridiculous.  I think I'm going to try and make this year the year of me - work on my health, which is really suffering now with all the years of stress and work on who I am - stop jumping to other people's tunes and concentrate on doing what I want to do when it suits me best.  A few things I've noticed over the last few weeks that are all quite small but show people think of themselves and not me:

A friend who talked about herself for fifty minutes during our last phone conversation and then told me when the best time of day was to catch her in (with no thought for when it might be convenient for me to talk, that's assuming I can get a word in)
A relative who still hasn't given my son his Christmas present because he wants to 'see his face' when he opens it and so far there hasn't been a time when we're both available (and probably won't be until next Christmas now)
A friend who wanted to come along to an event I was planning to go to but now wants us to go to something else because it no longer fits in with her plans
A friend who invited herself to stay over Christmas without asking if it was okay for me (I put her off coming)
Two friends who took an inordinate amount of time to return my last call to them, six weeks in one case and four months in the other!  I decided I'd wait the same length of time before calling them back, one then started ringing daily and leaving messages asking why I hadn't called and the other left a message wanting to know if I was free to meet up the following day.

None of those things are a terribly big deal, but they've made me realise that I just feel invisible and always have done.  I feel like I'm taken out of my box when needed and put back in when I'm not.

Thank you for reading, and for being there and understanding.  It helps me so much.  Sorry for going quiet.  I hope everyone is doing okay.  Thank you.

Tup xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2013, 07:22:52 AM »
Tup...

What you said about making this year all about you, strikes me as the best antidote to the residual toxins you're dealing with. It also vaccinates you against "future situations"... where you might unwittingly fall into the same old patterns. If you can push on and do this (don't worry about "acing" it... just do what you can)... I think you'll notice that overall you start to feel better, won't be stressed... or as susceptible to being pushed into a stress response... by normal life stuff.

It doesn't "feel right" initially, to put yourself first. And whatever the change you've selected to work on... the "path of least resistance" is to always fall back into the same old rutted neuro-paths. Of course, the reflex when one falls back... is to replicate the old abuse - the mental tapes, the feelings, etc... the "never good enough" scenario, which in turn kicks in the old stuff, which in turn starts generating those mental toxins, that turn into emotion poison, and then start affecting (some) of us physically.

When you continually, persistently, bring it all back around to you... and what you want (goals)... the first real changes are miniscule and subtle. It helps me not get discouraged and give up, if I simply focus on what I did accomplish (and ignore - for now, in that first phase) - what I didn't. I don't know about you, but I tend to "teeter-totter" a lot in this part of doing something new or making a change. Like a yo-yo dieter I'm really good about giving myself permission to return to the "old way" that I wanted to change... as if it were a reward (like my goal) simply because I associate "feeling safe" or "feeling good" with it.

Yeah, I know that's all tangled up. The goal can be the reward... all by itself... but my inner, conditioned emotional self is still convinced of the magic powers of the old pattern. There's probably a real neuro-response underneath what we experience... like a dopamine release or something... so that explains why it's so hard to change things like this about ourselves.

Trying to change one's Pavlovian response to others in need... when part of one's FOO role was caretaker... means having to work through stereotypes that WE hold about what's selfish or not, about what constitutes an ability/inability (whether it be time, money or relationship) to help, and sorting through and maybe even re-organizing our own beliefs about responsibility... what each person does for themselves and is expected to do for themselves. Yeah, this also gets into the muck of guilt, obligation, etc again... but at a completely different place and context than what one goes through initially... sorting out FOO-stuff.

Trying to change those kinds of programmed responses, also has the risk that we'll wake up our own inner critic... that collection of thoughts and emotions that make us feel lower than worms. Part of the real change -- is to be able to see it coming up to start the old tirades again -- telling it to stuff it -- and moving along without a second thought, twinge of guilt or fear of regret.

All those little baby-steps you make in trying to change... may not completely erase the old neural pathways; it might still be there later on. But you'll be in control of choosing to accept it... or say: HEY WAIT A MINUTE... I don't know that I want to do this!

And that's a good thing. Hang in there!! I think you're "getting it" just fine.

Amber
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

BonesMS

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2013, 08:06:16 AM »
Hi everyone,

Sorry, I've been a bit quiet, needed to get my head together a bit.

In a way this has been good, it showed me there was more I needed to sort out in my own mind and I hadn't realised that, I thought I was 'done' where my mum is concerned.

It's made me realise, finally, that her brain is hard wired in a very different way and she simply can't live in a way that most people do.  I am still people pleasing and putting others first all the time and I really need to work on that now, it's getting ridiculous.  I think I'm going to try and make this year the year of me - work on my health, which is really suffering now with all the years of stress and work on who I am - stop jumping to other people's tunes and concentrate on doing what I want to do when it suits me best.  A few things I've noticed over the last few weeks that are all quite small but show people think of themselves and not me:

A friend who talked about herself for fifty minutes during our last phone conversation and then told me when the best time of day was to catch her in (with no thought for when it might be convenient for me to talk, that's assuming I can get a word in)
A relative who still hasn't given my son his Christmas present because he wants to 'see his face' when he opens it and so far there hasn't been a time when we're both available (and probably won't be until next Christmas now)
A friend who wanted to come along to an event I was planning to go to but now wants us to go to something else because it no longer fits in with her plans
A friend who invited herself to stay over Christmas without asking if it was okay for me (I put her off coming)
Two friends who took an inordinate amount of time to return my last call to them, six weeks in one case and four months in the other!  I decided I'd wait the same length of time before calling them back, one then started ringing daily and leaving messages asking why I hadn't called and the other left a message wanting to know if I was free to meet up the following day.

None of those things are a terribly big deal, but they've made me realise that I just feel invisible and always have done.  I feel like I'm taken out of my box when needed and put back in when I'm not.

Thank you for reading, and for being there and understanding.  It helps me so much.  Sorry for going quiet.  I hope everyone is doing okay.  Thank you.

Tup xx














((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I can relate!!!  Oh boy, can I relate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bones
Back Off Bug-A-Loo!

Twoapenny

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2013, 03:15:45 PM »
Thank you, Phoenix.  I completely agree with everything you've said there, particularly the bit about feeling lower than a worm.  My reaction in myself when I say no to someone (or even just don't respond immediately) is terrible - i don't know why I haven't noticed it before!

Today, for example, we've battled through the snow to get some groceries in so it's taken much longer to do than it normally would.  When I got home there was a message from a friend asking if she could pop round.  I had some stuff I wanted to do, phone calls I wanted to make and so on but I found it so hard to resist the urge to text her and say yes, come over.  Then she turned up anyway with another friend (again, no boundaries on my part) and I didn't say anything, just let them in and felt moany and resentful.  They left, and then later she texted wanted to come back over and I felt guilty for saying no and made an excuse about not feeling well.  I want to be able to either just ignore it (but if I do that people turn up anyway sometimes and I find that difficult to cope with) or say honestly, no, I fancy a quiet night in on my own.  Something to work on!

I do need to make more effort to reach out and make new friends, and to do more things for me, for no reason other than I like them.  I've thought about voluntary work some more as well.  I do genuinely enjoy helping people and caring for them, but it would be better to help those who genuinely need it, homeless people maybe, or the elderly.  That way I'd get my fix of helping out whilst genuinely doing some good for someone in a difficult situation.  I'd just need to make sure not to over commit myself.  Thank you for all the thoughts and feedback.

Bonesie - I'm sorry that you can relate!  Sometimes the board is bittersweet - having people understand is amazing but knowing they understand because they've been hurt badly as well makes me sad :(  Bad things happening to nice people, it's not right.  Thank you for the hug (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bones)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

BonesMS

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2013, 02:37:50 AM »
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Back Off Bug-A-Loo!

Hopalong

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2013, 01:11:50 PM »
Hi ((((Tupp))))

I was talking to my T today and he pointed out how the "original wound" just
keeps getting re-enacted and processed over and over in life, and how normal
that is, and how everyone as they work through their own life story, is reaching
for that point where they actually can change the script.

I hear your "original hurt" when you are not appreciated, or taken for granted,
or feel unable to assert yourself without anguish.

I LOVE that you are such a durable soul that you keep conjuring up new ideas,
and new ways that you might meet your needs for connection, in scenarios
that might NOT bang on those same old emotional bruises.

I think you're very positive, and full of life, and so so so full of light and
possibility.

I would never give up on the idea of you flowering into happiness.
Old bruises may always ache from time to time, in some interactions,
but I have a very strong vision of Tupp learning how to carry herself
kindly.

Be patient with yourself. You've come SO much farther than you
probably see, or give yourself credit for.

Really, you are remarkable.

lots of love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2013, 02:15:30 PM »
Hopsie, thank you, you are so kind :)  I don't feel remarkable, I feel knackered and worn out from the constant thinking - my brain feels like it's always working on ten things at once :)

I am trying to take better care of myself, physically as well as emotionally.  I saw the doctor who feels a lot of my health problems are stress related.  He was very kind and understanding.  He's organising some tests just to rule certain things out but it's pretty much the first time I've ever seen a 'professional' and felt they've heard what I'm saying.  I usually feel that I'm being dismissed for wasting people's time.

I've noticed a few things recently and I wonder if anyone else finds the same in their life?:

I don't expect to be listened to.  If I'm talking to someone and they don't interrupt or talk over me I start to feel anxious.  I'm not used to talking about myself for long periods of time (more than a minute or so).  I'm not used to giving detail, or explaining things in depth.  I think possibly because my whole life has been spent listening to other people talk and being around people who aren't interested in what I have to say.  It feels odd to me that someone might actually want to hear me?

I've realised that I can pick out the good bits of a friendship and ignore the bad bits (as long as it's not abusive etc).  For example - I've tried to explain to my sister how I feel about her calling with her problems and issues.  I love her and she is capable of great kindness, but she can also be very thoughtless and I find her very tiring.  I realised yesterday that I can meet her for a coffee every now and again (which I like doing) and I can ask for the odd favour but I don't have to listen to the problems - I can ignore the call, not respond to the text, tell her I'm too busy if she turns up on the door step.  I think I've felt that if I'm someone's 'friend' then I have to be available at all times, whenever it suits them, for whatever reason, otherwise I don't have a right to ask for a favour or to pay them a visit to say hi and spend some time with them.  I'm starting to realise that's not the case.  It still feels a bit odd but I want to work at it.

I also very much want to start going out without my son a bit more and making more effort to spend time getting to know people better.  There are people I know casually who I would like to spend more time with but I feel afraid of asking them 'out'.  I want to try and work on that (but there's so much snow at the minute that I do have a valid reason for putting it off because I can't get anywhere for now!).

I've also decided to cut short the calls with 'friends' who talk about themselves too much.  I'm going to give it eight minutes and if in that time they haven't asked me a question or given me any kind of chance to speak I'm going to make an excuse to get off the phone and go and do something else.  They can talk someone else's ears off :)

sKePTiKal

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Re: My mum is ill
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2013, 05:54:55 AM »
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I think I've felt that if I'm someone's 'friend' then I have to be available at all times, whenever it suits them, for whatever reason, otherwise I don't have a right to ask for a favour or to pay them a visit to say hi and spend some time with them.

Now, did you really hear what you said here? LOL... this is IT. This is what N-moms think relationships are all about: having us available to them at all times, for whatever reason... and since they claim control of us... we don't have the right to ask for a favour or anything else... unless THEIR NEEDS are satisfied FIRST.

That was perfectly said.

I still struggle with this too, btw. It gets better, but it's so deep down and (subtly) instinctive the only way I know to "edit" the reflex response - is with present moment awareness... combined with a quick "meeting" with my prim and disapproving inner scheduling director and wild-child whims.

OH... and I think that under the circumstances, it's probably healthy for you to wish your mom wasn't around anymore. Understandably, you want it all to STOP. The trick is, I think, to completely remove the power of "the mom" in your mind... just mentally go through taking back your own power and making her powerless -- and if there's anger lingering around looking for a target, just have a teenaged, total melt-down anger fantasy. This is almost a physically painful part of separating oneself from an "enmeshed" type of relationship... but a very healthy step along the way to just being you and making it all "stop".

Man, I'm for real, stealing that description of relationships... it was that perfect!!  ;)
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