Author Topic: What gives you your sense of self worth  (Read 26063 times)

Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2016, 03:03:14 PM »
Still rambling!  Went out with my son this afternoon to a club we used to go to before he got ill so we saw people we hadn't seen for ages and it was lovely but my anxiety levels were up through the roof.  I really want to tackle this as I do think anxiety stops me doing a lot of things because it makes me feel so rotten.  Have got appointment with new T next week so might make anxiety top of the list of things to deal with.

Hopalong

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2016, 04:12:46 PM »
I think for these things to bring any happiness, Tupp (and they're all great)...is to put intensity behind hushing that extremely critical inner voice you have.

I mean really do battle with it, including speaking with authority out loud, "STOP" the moment you detect a thought mumbling "you're no good, don't deserve, won't do it perfectly, people will criticize...blah blah blah...."

Every time you hear those nasty self-hating, self-sabotaging thoughts or they swim to your awareness, actually say out loud (and MEAN IT): "STOP!"

It's a method of re-training your unconscious self-sabotage. Bringing it right up and smacking it down.

It's terribly awkward at first. You might feel thoughts/emotions/sensations collide as you do it. But then it becomes easier, calmer, and part of a natural dialogue with yourself that is so much more productive and so much more compassionate. I still do it to this day when I start a self-undermining monologue. When I put intensity into it, it works.

Some people who use this method wear a fat rubber band (elastic) around their wrist and the moment they catch the unwanted behavior (in this case, an inner mean/underminding comment from your internalized self-hating critic) -- they snap the band! A momentary physical sting, while aloud you say STOP!, can be really helpful. (After some months when the new habit is well ingrained, you might ditch the elastic.)

Worth a try you think?

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 05:27:03 PM by Hopalong »
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Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2016, 06:00:54 PM »
I think for these things to bring any happiness, Tupp (and they're all great)...is to put intensity behind hushing that extremely critical inner voice you have.

I mean really do battle with it, including speaking with authority out loud, "STOP" the moment you detect a thought mumbling "you're no good, don't deserve, won't do it perfectly, people will criticize...blah blah blah...."

Every time you hear those nasty self-hating, self-sabotaging thoughts or they swim to your awareness, actually say out loud (and MEAN IT): "STOP!"

It's a method of re-training your unconscious self-sabotage. Bringing it right up and smacking it down.

It's terribly awkward at first. You might feel thoughts/emotions/sensations collide as you do it. But then it becomes easier, calmer, and part of a natural dialogue with yourself that is so much more productive and so much more compassionate. I still do it to this day when I start a self-undermining monologue. When I put intensity into it, it works.

Some people who use this method wear a fat rubber band (elastic) around their wrist and the moment they catch the unwanted behavior (in this case, an inner mean/underminding comment from your internalized self-hating critic) -- they snap the band! A momentary physical sting, while aloud you say STOP!, can be really helpful. (After some months when the new habit is well ingrained, you might ditch the elastic.)

Worth a try you think?

hugs
Hops

Definitely worth trying, Hopsie, thank you, I like the elastic band idea.  I'd heard of people using it to stop smoking but not for something like this so I will definitely give it a go.  It's blooming hard work,isn't it, all this trying to sort yourself out stuff!!  Thank you xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2016, 09:35:54 AM »
One of the harder things I can think of, Tupps, is changing the well-trodden paths of how we think-feel-do. All those habits and routines.

Practice is the only thing I know to make progress and - eventually - succeed in making a change like that. Practice is the word I use, because when you're a beginner even practice is fraught with some mistakes, forgetfulness, etc. That's automatically forgiven - because you're a beginner. NO RISK.

More practice, new things get easier. More practice, new things start to feel "normal" and part of "you". More practice and it's automatically what you do without thinking about it.

Reminders, like the stop & rubber band, help some too.

[yes... I'm explaining this all to myself again, too. I need the reminder of how this works.]
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2016, 03:09:24 AM »
One of the harder things I can think of, Tupps, is changing the well-trodden paths of how we think-feel-do. All those habits and routines.

Practice is the only thing I know to make progress and - eventually - succeed in making a change like that. Practice is the word I use, because when you're a beginner even practice is fraught with some mistakes, forgetfulness, etc. That's automatically forgiven - because you're a beginner. NO RISK.

More practice, new things get easier. More practice, new things start to feel "normal" and part of "you". More practice and it's automatically what you do without thinking about it.

Reminders, like the stop & rubber band, help some too.

[yes... I'm explaining this all to myself again, too. I need the reminder of how this works.]

Yes it's definitely practise, Skep, and trying new things out and finding that some of them don't work, I think, and that not being the end of the world?  That's something I find hard to do but am/will keep trying, and trying to change the way I think.  Sometimes I don't even realise I'm thinking something, it's there and only later on do I realise I was being very negative or pessimistic.  Practise, practise, practise :) x

Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2016, 03:11:49 AM »

Quote
Every time you hear those nasty self-hating, self-sabotaging thoughts or they swim to your awareness, actually say out loud (and MEAN IT): "STOP!"

I have those kinds of thoughts about myself AND occasionally nasty thoughts about others.  Strange how I have far more nasty thoughts about myself than others!  I heard someone suggest this solution, "Get another thought".  So my approach lately has been to remind myself to get another thought.  I, also, think it's critical to think in present future, not present past and see myself becoming, overcoming & living whole and well.

Hi Grits,

Yes, that's very true.  I remember talking to a therapist once that I felt I was thinking in triplicate - I'd have the old, negative, critical thought, then realise I was doing it and have a thought about not doing it, then a third thought to try and change it to something more positive.  It's hard work, especially when you're getting on with your day to day stuff and trying to juggle many things, as most of us do.  I am trying to be more positive and active in my thinking but I find that much easier when I'm alone and I think that's where I'm a bit stuck at the minute; I want to connect to the real world more but I find it disrupts my bubble!

Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 11:53:45 AM »
Law Of Attraction - I have struggled with this for years.

I first read about positive thinking and the power of the mind type stuff when I was pregnant with my son and struggling with depression (and my mother!).  I remember being horrified when I realised how much of what I talked about was gossip or critical, nasty comments about people.  I was equally horrified when I realised that, if I didn't indulge in gossip or nasty comments about people with my mother, then we had absolutely nothing to talk about.

I have frequently and repeatedly read yet another book about asking the Universe for what you want and it being delivered in your lap, and have read story after story of people achieving great successes and huge wealth because they practised this regularly.  But I never really seemed to get the hang of it and I often seemed to attract bad luck rather than good, even when trying really hard to be upbeat and positive.

I've also struggled to understand how bad things happen when you're not thinking about them or even aware they are possible (as the Law of Attraction theory is that you pull every experience to you with your thoughts and vibrations).  Why is it babies are neglected and starved, or children bombed, young girls married off to old men, so many awful things that you hear about.  They wouldn't be aware enough to think about that, so I've never really understood.  Equally things that have happened to me - a social worker fabricating a case against me, for example - I'd never have dreamed that sort of thing went on so I've never really been able to understand how I drew that experience to me.

Anyway - I have been trying really, really hard to stop the negative thoughts and to concentrate on feeling thankful for what I have and to try and stop my mind from wandering into the dark places it sometimes goes to.  Apart from the fact the sun is shining today (which is very lovely), we went to the library and the librarian gave me a book - to keep - free of charge - because I'm a good customer.  And when I got home I had an email from a lady who I know very casually who heard me saying that I'd had to cancel our plans to go away because our van has cost so much to do up that I can't really afford it - and not only has she offered me her holiday home, free of charge, but it's only half an hour away from where my friends live!  So now it's looking like we can go off looking at colleges for my son for a few days and then go and have a lovely relaxing break near my friends.

All in all it's been a very nice day!

Hopalong

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2016, 12:19:37 PM »
Wow. What an extraordinary gift from that woman...Tupp, that is just FANTASTIC. (Leaping cartwheels for you.) What a joyful thing to read. A gift from life.

...more cartwheels...

About the Law of Attraction--I'm not a fan because it confuses people about how to improve their lives. See what you think of this summary: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction .

Or, google "why the law of attraction is bullshit" if you want to see a lot of writing about it from the critical side.

The key thing is its confusing mix of beneficial and toxic. It hurts people in the end, although parts of it are also parts of healing and sane practices. Hard to sort out. Better, imn-ho, to simplify. Find a ritual for compassion and self-love, and keep at it. Find 3-D groups/activities that feel meaningful or happy and lift you up.

Dream less and do more. (Preaching to self...)

hugs
Hops

PS--You cannot "fail" at following the "Law of Attraction" because it's not a law. It's a setup. And that would be your inner critical voice scolding you for not "doing it right" -- right? Snap! STOP!  :)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 12:23:27 PM by Hopalong »
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Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2016, 03:25:46 PM »
Wow. What an extraordinary gift from that woman...Tupp, that is just FANTASTIC. (Leaping cartwheels for you.) What a joyful thing to read. A gift from life.

...more cartwheels...

About the Law of Attraction--I'm not a fan because it confuses people about how to improve their lives. See what you think of this summary: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction .

Or, google "why the law of attraction is bullshit" if you want to see a lot of writing about it from the critical side.

The key thing is its confusing mix of beneficial and toxic. It hurts people in the end, although parts of it are also parts of healing and sane practices. Hard to sort out. Better, imn-ho, to simplify. Find a ritual for compassion and self-love, and keep at it. Find 3-D groups/activities that feel meaningful or happy and lift you up.

Dream less and do more. (Preaching to self...)

hugs
Hops

PS--You cannot "fail" at following the "Law of Attraction" because it's not a law. It's a setup. And that would be your inner critical voice scolding you for not "doing it right" -- right? Snap! STOP!  :)

Lol, snap taken, Hops, thank you for the info, will read up tomorrow, I do find it a bit baffling :)

Yes that is such a lovely thing from that lady, what a kind and generous offer and what a stroke of luck as well.  And further good news ..........first session with new T tonight and she is lovely :)  Friendly, welcoming, right balance (for me) of her talking and me talking, no b***shit, felt very comfortable with her and the way she works.  Could have happily stayed another hour.  She did that nice motherly rub on the shoulder thing when I left as well which I love; my first T did that and I honestly think it might have been the first time in my life I'd experienced physical affection that wasn't loaded with something less pleasant.  Very soothing and comforting.  What a very good day :)

Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2016, 03:32:18 PM »
Just read the summary, yes, that is exactly why I've struggled!  If it doesn't work it's because you didn't think about it in the right way or subconsciously you don't want what you think you do want.  How funny, I never thought of looking up negatives about it, I assumed it was me doing it wrong.  Just off to snap myself again :) x

sKePTiKal

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2016, 08:22:06 AM »
Just reflecting on this topic some more... not sure it would really help anyone but me, to sort out the tangle in my head about it... but I'm studying the mechanics of how this works in myself...

the friend who told me it sounded like I needed validation - confirmation of my own wants, ideas, value, etc - is an "expert" in some things, admittedly hopeless in others. But he is one of those guys who either by luck, discipline or training are "usually right" when they make a pronouncement. And he is an amazing parent to his adopted children (who have backgrounds that would put them all inside our Amazon fire ring.

I think those of us who've been extremely invalidated - or were routinely invalidated for a long time - tend to LOOK FOR (seeking) that "expert" who can provide the validation we need; at a deeper level - it's the parental connection fix, too. Mirroring. When a child is learning something for the first time - there is always a lot of checking with mom or dad - is this right? Am I doing it right? And they want to hear the clapping, the "good job!!", and "Look at you, big girl"... type of approval and encouragement to continue "practicing". The: "Go on, you can do it".

When we're becoming whole beings again, there is a stage where we struggle to figure out how to validate ourselves. When I look at my lists, why is it I'm always seeing what is LEFT to do and never how many things I've already crossed off? How did my eyes and brain get trained that way? That's kind of an easy one to see the mechanics of how we keep ourselves trapped in that old habit... and also how to change it. Instead of a "to-do" list... we'll just title that sucker: "Here's what I've already done" list. When everything on the list is crossed off...do I take a minute to enjoy the satisfaction of that? How? Does that even matter? OR... is that still such a taboo from the old toxic past that it feels really weird doing? As if bad things will happen because we patted ourselves on the back? (We already know where that reflex emotion comes from... but it doesn't apply in the "now", does it?)

Then, I ran across an essay talking about the necessity of military leaders to be able to make a decision in a critical life/death situation - and recognizing that they were at a decision point in the first place. (Yeah, yeah Hops... I have no idea why I think in military terms, maybe a past life?? LOL.) There were some really useful ideas in there, that go directly to the issue of "trusting one's self", having confidence in your own judgement, and how one makes decisions. Let's face it - we've all had our expressions of those aspects of our healthy selves squashed, stepped on, and even humiliated and that's a psyche/heart wound that needs a specific remedy to heal.

One thing the author talks about is "chasing the unicorn" -- delaying making a decision, until you've exhausted all possible sources of research and information. In battle, leaders simply can't do that -- even if their decisions (and the lives of the people they're leading) DO rely on having timely, accurate information. This is where we often turn to people called "experts" for their take on a situation, too; instead of simply listening for that small voice that is our wise-self. It's got to be linked to perfectionism, fear of making mistakes, ultimately fear of becoming that old toxic target of invalidation and abuse... which lives on in our psyches as the "inner critic", and that voice that heaps recriminations, blame & shame, and humiliation on ourselves.

Maybe the fears are lizard brain level and take precedence over the higher processing centers, demanding for guarantees that a clear picture of the future result of the decision is "safe" and will be successful? And that keeps us churning through the ifs, the if-thens, and unknown unknowns... stuck. Maybe. Dunno.

I wonder (today, anyway) how many hours and days of my life I've spent in trying to accumulate ENOUGH, GOOD ENOUGH information to make a decision? Instead of simply ASKING myself - what do you want to do? - and then waiting for that answer to swim up to consciousness. How many times have I asked my friends - and people whose opinion I respect (read: experts) - to critique the decisions I'm trying to make and giving me their "Good Housekeeping Stamp of Approval" for it, before I can even think about getting my butt in gear on it?

And what effect (if any), what message am I sending to that original psyche/heart wound that said what I think, feel, and want is foolish or of no consequence when I go seeking that stamp of approval?

I'm giving that a real good hard look these days. It was a function in my life that Mike filled -- he and I would run through all those thoughts, ifs, etc -- and identifying the worst that could happen and also the potential benefits -- and when/where decisions could adapted, edited, changed or even negated if things didn't turn out as we'd hoped. And unlike my toxic relationships... Mike always threw the final decision to me, saying he was just along for the ride - LOL. It is also one of the things I feel the loss of, the most, too.

He could do all that, and then immediately throw me into a spontaneous activity just long enough... just to break the obsessive trance I get into over this crap, too. So, I am in the process of trying to learn to do that for/to myself.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2016, 11:24:38 AM »
Wow, Amber.
Thank you for the "chasing the unicorn" insight.
And your last two paras really affect me. Both for your loss, and because that is a good description of the biggest lack in my life. Having a partner interested in my life would help me become interested in it/hopeful about it again too.

hugs
Hops
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Ales2

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2016, 04:45:36 PM »
Wow, there is alot of stuff that triggers issues for me here too! I usually talk more about experiences than Book recommendations, but here is a list that might be helpful.

Quote
I think those of us who've been extremely invalidated - or were routinely invalidated for a long time - tend to LOOK FOR (seeking) that "expert" who can provide the validation we need; at a deeper level - it's the parental connection fix, too. Mirroring. When a child is learning something for the first time - there is always a lot of checking with mom or dad - is this right? Am I doing it right? And they want to hear the clapping, the "good job!!", and "Look at you, big girl"... type of approval and encouragement to continue "practicing". The: "Go on, you can do it".

When we're becoming whole beings again, there is a stage where we struggle to figure out how to validate ourselves. When I look at my lists, why is it I'm always seeing what is LEFT to do and never how many things I've already crossed off? How did my eyes and brain get trained that way? That's kind of an easy one to see the mechanics of how we keep ourselves trapped in that old habit... and also how to change it. Instead of a "to-do" list... we'll just title that sucker: "Here's what I've already done" list. When everything on the list is crossed off...do I take a minute to enjoy the satisfaction of that? How? Does that even matter? OR... is that still such a taboo from the old toxic past that it feels really weird doing? As if bad things will happen because we patted ourselves on the back? (We already know where that reflex emotion comes from... but it doesn't apply in the "now", does it?)

For this problem, try Inner Bonding by Margaret Paul PHD.
https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Bonding-Becoming-Loving-Adult/dp/0062507109/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468010299&sr=8-1&keywords=inner+bonding

Quote
I have frequently and repeatedly read yet another book about asking the Universe for what you want and it being delivered in your lap, and have read story after story of people achieving great successes and huge wealth because they practised this regularly.  But I never really seemed to get the hang of it and I often seemed to attract bad luck rather than good, even when trying really hard to be upbeat and positive.

I've also struggled to understand how bad things happen when you're not thinking about them or even aware they are possible (as the Law of Attraction theory is that you pull every experience to you with your thoughts and vibrations).  Why is it babies are neglected and starved, or children bombed, young girls married off to old men, so many awful things that you hear about.  They wouldn't be aware enough to think about that, so I've never really understood.  Equally things that have happened to me - a social worker fabricating a case against me, for example - I'd never have dreamed that sort of thing went on so I've never really been able to understand how I drew that experience to me.

Check out what Esther Hicks says about "contrast" and "desire's remorse" at their website, it might answer the questions for you.

http://www.abraham-hicks.com/lawofattractionsource/fulltextsearch.php

Also, check out Living with Joy - they have a chapter about how when things start working well, somethings will not work well, and it has to do with people having to evolve from old self to new self to get to the next level. Not sure exactly which chapter or pages, but check it out.

https://www.amazon.com/Living-Joy-Personal-Spiritual-Transformation/dp/1932073515/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468010501&sr=8-1&keywords=living+with+joy


About nasty thought towards myself or others, I dont have an answer or suggestion for that one just yet, but working on it myself.

Peace to all here at the board - so much turmoil in our country these days, its imperative that we are here for each other with help, support and kindness.









« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 04:47:38 PM by Ales2 »

Hopalong

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2016, 12:26:57 AM »
Tupp,
I really like Mark Manson on The Secret and the "Law..." fwiw.

https://markmanson.net/the-secret


Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: What gives you your sense of self worth
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2016, 02:24:10 PM »
Tupp,
I really like Mark Manson on The Secret and the "Law..." fwiw.

https://markmanson.net/the-secret


Hugs
Hops

Ha, that made me laugh, Hops, he's said the things that I've wondered and then I've told myself off for allowing myself to doubt and be negative.  I think life is all about grey areas and changing boundaries, isn't it?  Surrounding yourself with critical people isn't good but at the same time you do need people to point out the flaws in your plan or sometimes just to tell you you're being an arse and need to wind it in a bit (they are the best kind of friends, I think, the ones that love you but can tell you when you're being an idiot).

I've complained a lot about not having many friends and having friends that have let me down and haven't made any effort to keep in touch.  But I have realised more recently that I have sort of outgrown them anyway, even though it was really painful and I felt rejected.  It's more the feeling of being wanted that I've missed rather than the individual people themselves I think.  That's one of the things I spent loads of time throwing up to the Universe and saying over and over that I had lots of friends and they all really cared about me.  It just isn't true, but I have got a small number of friends who really do care and I do focus on them a lot more now and I'm very grateful for them.

I do remember a therapist I saw about CBT years ago who used an analogy that I found useful when it comes to positive thinking.  She said if you stand in a garden with your eyes shut and keep repeating 'There are no weeds' it just stops you seeing them, it doesn't stop them growing.  The point being the gardening will be more enjoyable if you go about it in a positive mindset but whatever happens you still need to pull the weeds up.

I'll have to have a look through the rest of his site, it looks interesting.  Thank you for posting it up :) x