What gives you your sense of self worth

[Twoapenny]

Just reflecting on this topic some more... not sure it would really help anyone but me, to sort out the tangle in my head about it... but I'm studying the mechanics of how this works in myself...

the friend who told me it sounded like I needed validation - confirmation of my own wants, ideas, value, etc - is an "expert" in some things, admittedly hopeless in others. But he is one of those guys who either by luck, discipline or training are "usually right" when they make a pronouncement. And he is an amazing parent to his adopted children (who have backgrounds that would put them all inside our Amazon fire ring.

I think those of us who've been extremely invalidated - or were routinely invalidated for a long time - tend to LOOK FOR (seeking) that "expert" who can provide the validation we need; at a deeper level - it's the parental connection fix, too. Mirroring. When a child is learning something for the first time - there is always a lot of checking with mom or dad - is this right? Am I doing it right? And they want to hear the clapping, the "good job!!", and "Look at you, big girl"... type of approval and encouragement to continue "practicing". The: "Go on, you can do it".

When we're becoming whole beings again, there is a stage where we struggle to figure out how to validate ourselves. When I look at my lists, why is it I'm always seeing what is LEFT to do and never how many things I've already crossed off? How did my eyes and brain get trained that way? That's kind of an easy one to see the mechanics of how we keep ourselves trapped in that old habit... and also how to change it. Instead of a "to-do" list... we'll just title that sucker: "Here's what I've already done" list. When everything on the list is crossed off...do I take a minute to enjoy the satisfaction of that? How? Does that even matter? OR... is that still such a taboo from the old toxic past that it feels really weird doing? As if bad things will happen because we patted ourselves on the back? (We already know where that reflex emotion comes from... but it doesn't apply in the "now", does it?)

Then, I ran across an essay talking about the necessity of military leaders to be able to make a decision in a critical life/death situation - and recognizing that they were at a decision point in the first place. (Yeah, yeah Hops... I have no idea why I think in military terms, maybe a past life?? LOL.) There were some really useful ideas in there, that go directly to the issue of "trusting one's self", having confidence in your own judgement, and how one makes decisions. Let's face it - we've all had our expressions of those aspects of our healthy selves squashed, stepped on, and even humiliated and that's a psyche/heart wound that needs a specific remedy to heal.

One thing the author talks about is "chasing the unicorn" -- delaying making a decision, until you've exhausted all possible sources of research and information. In battle, leaders simply can't do that -- even if their decisions (and the lives of the people they're leading) DO rely on having timely, accurate information. This is where we often turn to people called "experts" for their take on a situation, too; instead of simply listening for that small voice that is our wise-self. It's got to be linked to perfectionism, fear of making mistakes, ultimately fear of becoming that old toxic target of invalidation and abuse... which lives on in our psyches as the "inner critic", and that voice that heaps recriminations, blame & shame, and humiliation on ourselves.

Maybe the fears are lizard brain level and take precedence over the higher processing centers, demanding for guarantees that a clear picture of the future result of the decision is "safe" and will be successful? And that keeps us churning through the ifs, the if-thens, and unknown unknowns... stuck. Maybe. Dunno.

I wonder (today, anyway) how many hours and days of my life I've spent in trying to accumulate ENOUGH, GOOD ENOUGH information to make a decision? Instead of simply ASKING myself - what do you want to do? - and then waiting for that answer to swim up to consciousness. How many times have I asked my friends - and people whose opinion I respect (read: experts) - to critique the decisions I'm trying to make and giving me their "Good Housekeeping Stamp of Approval" for it, before I can even think about getting my butt in gear on it?

And what effect (if any), what message am I sending to that original psyche/heart wound that said what I think, feel, and want is foolish or of no consequence when I go seeking that stamp of approval?

I'm giving that a real good hard look these days. It was a function in my life that Mike filled -- he and I would run through all those thoughts, ifs, etc -- and identifying the worst that could happen and also the potential benefits -- and when/where decisions could adapted, edited, changed or even negated if things didn't turn out as we'd hoped. And unlike my toxic relationships... Mike always threw the final decision to me, saying he was just along for the ride - LOL. It is also one of the things I feel the loss of, the most, too.

He could do all that, and then immediately throw me into a spontaneous activity just long enough... just to break the obsessive trance I get into over this crap, too. So, I am in the process of trying to learn to do that for/to myself.

I can really relate to a lot of that, Skep, particularly with regard to needing to be validated, needing permission to go ahead and do something.  With me I think two other things come into play as well, needing to be good but not too good (mustn't be better than others and make them feel insecure, inferior, less than me) and I think as well I have a sense of avoiding taking responsibility for my own decisions.  If so and so said that's what I should do and it goes wrong then it's partly so and so's fault.  Equally if it goes well than I can credit it to them, rather than myself, avoiding being 'too good'.

I am getting better at thinking about what I want to do rather than waiting for permission.  I think my son has really helped me in that regard; I've had a lot of flack over the years about decisions I've made regarding him but as he's getting older I can see they were the right decisions, and they were often made against the advice of professionals (who I lost trust in early on) and I can see now that I was right to do the things that I did.  And that was mostly instinct and just being 'mum' and, I suppose, just wanting what was best for him.  It sounds like Mike helped you in a similar way? x

[Twoapenny]

Wow, there is alot of stuff that triggers issues for me here too! I usually talk more about experiences than Book recommendations, but here is a list that might be helpful.

I think those of us who've been extremely invalidated - or were routinely invalidated for a long time - tend to LOOK FOR (seeking) that "expert" who can provide the validation we need; at a deeper level - it's the parental connection fix, too. Mirroring. When a child is learning something for the first time - there is always a lot of checking with mom or dad - is this right? Am I doing it right? And they want to hear the clapping, the "good job!!", and "Look at you, big girl"... type of approval and encouragement to continue "practicing". The: "Go on, you can do it".

When we're becoming whole beings again, there is a stage where we struggle to figure out how to validate ourselves. When I look at my lists, why is it I'm always seeing what is LEFT to do and never how many things I've already crossed off? How did my eyes and brain get trained that way? That's kind of an easy one to see the mechanics of how we keep ourselves trapped in that old habit... and also how to change it. Instead of a "to-do" list... we'll just title that sucker: "Here's what I've already done" list. When everything on the list is crossed off...do I take a minute to enjoy the satisfaction of that? How? Does that even matter? OR... is that still such a taboo from the old toxic past that it feels really weird doing? As if bad things will happen because we patted ourselves on the back? (We already know where that reflex emotion comes from... but it doesn't apply in the "now", does it?)

For this problem, try Inner Bonding by Margaret Paul PHD.
https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Bonding-Becoming-Loving-Adult/dp/0062507109/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468010299&sr=8-1&keywords=inner+bonding

I have frequently and repeatedly read yet another book about asking the Universe for what you want and it being delivered in your lap, and have read story after story of people achieving great successes and huge wealth because they practised this regularly.  But I never really seemed to get the hang of it and I often seemed to attract bad luck rather than good, even when trying really hard to be upbeat and positive.

I've also struggled to understand how bad things happen when you're not thinking about them or even aware they are possible (as the Law of Attraction theory is that you pull every experience to you with your thoughts and vibrations).  Why is it babies are neglected and starved, or children bombed, young girls married off to old men, so many awful things that you hear about.  They wouldn't be aware enough to think about that, so I've never really understood.  Equally things that have happened to me - a social worker fabricating a case against me, for example - I'd never have dreamed that sort of thing went on so I've never really been able to understand how I drew that experience to me.

Check out what Esther Hicks says about "contrast" and "desire's remorse" at their website, it might answer the questions for you.

http://www.abraham-hicks.com/lawofattractionsource/fulltextsearch.php

Also, check out Living with Joy - they have a chapter about how when things start working well, somethings will not work well, and it has to do with people having to evolve from old self to new self to get to the next level. Not sure exactly which chapter or pages, but check it out.

https://www.amazon.com/Living-Joy-Personal-Spiritual-Transformation/dp/1932073515/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468010501&sr=8-1&keywords=living+with+joy


About nasty thought towards myself or others, I dont have an answer or suggestion for that one just yet, but working on it myself.

Peace to all here at the board - so much turmoil in our country these days, its imperative that we are here for each other with help, support and kindness.

Thank you for the reading recommendations, Ales, have bookmarked to look up later on, always good to have other perspectives and new things to ponder x

[Ales2]

   Thanks, I hope it is helpful to you. Post your thoughts or questions later.

I have had trouble with LOA myself, one thing that took me awhile for me to understand is that positive thinking does make not negativity go away or that we attract less, it just gives us a more resilient and focused mind to deal with it.

For me, what has been difficult, is that some Negative people (capital N as in Narcissist! lol!) are not rational and not inclined to be positive towards you no matter what your attitude or work ethic or acceptance or cooperation with them. They seek to be superior, resist cooperation and destroy at will, for pleasure (ok, maybe those are the psychopaths). Point is, LOA assumes all people are essentially good, while not acknowledging that people can be ill-intentioned from the beginning, without us "attracting" it. Second problem with LOA is the faulty idea that when we "get healed" all these people go away or we stop "attracting them" - they don't go away, we just have the ability to deal with them, spot them, avoid them etc.

Good luck to all on the board.

In a week of tragedy, on all sides this week, seems silly to complain about Narcissists, but irony is that the very people who disturb the peace, kill others and can't cooperate with others are probably the same people who commit these crimes.

All the best in love, prosperity, peace, good health and safety to all on the board!

[Twoapenny]

  Thanks, I hope it is helpful to you. Post your thoughts or questions later.

I have had trouble with LOA myself, one thing that took me awhile for me to understand is that positive thinking does make not negativity go away or that we attract less, it just gives us a more resilient and focused mind to deal with it.

For me, what has been difficult, is that some Negative people (capital N as in Narcissist! lol!) are not rational and not inclined to be positive towards you no matter what your attitude or work ethic or acceptance or cooperation with them. They seek to be superior, resist cooperation and destroy at will, for pleasure (ok, maybe those are the psychopaths). Point is, LOA assumes all people are essentially good, while not acknowledging that people can be ill-intentioned from the beginning, without us "attracting" it. Second problem with LOA is the faulty idea that when we "get healed" all these people go away or we stop "attracting them" - they don't go away, we just have the ability to deal with them, spot them, avoid them etc.

Good luck to all on the board.

In a week of tragedy, on all sides this week, seems silly to complain about Narcissists, but irony is that the very people who disturb the peace, kill others and can't cooperate with others are probably the same people who commit these crimes.

All the best in love, prosperity, peace, good health and safety to all on the board!

Yes Ales I do understand what you are saying here.  I suppose we all need a belief system of some kind and something to hang our hat on when we're trying to deal with problems.  And personally I'm the sort of person that feels better doing something about a problem, even if it is only trying to change the way I think about it, it makes me feel more in control (my need to control coming through again!).  I think it's all about balance and perhaps having a range of tools that you can use as necessary, without having to subscribe completely to one thing and thinking it will cure all.  I do find positive thinking helps but as you say, sometimes the people you are dealing with just don't play by the same rules as everyone else and I think years of abuse, whichever form it takes, changes the wiring in your brain (or makes it form in a different way in the first place) and I've found that very hard to cope with as my baseline of 'normal' was very different to most people's for a very long time.

Will check out the books, thanks again x

[Meh]

Friend told me to take my ten year old camera out with me. I did. Can't say the pics are national geographic worthy but I have enjoyed sharing them with others who are not able to see this area themselves. Sort of like playing tourist in my own town.

How are the poetry, photography, writing forums going?

[Twoapenny]

Friend told me to take my ten year old camera out with me. I did. Can't say the pics are national geographic worthy but I have enjoyed sharing them with others who are not able to see this area themselves. Sort of like playing tourist in my own town.

How are the poetry, photography, writing forums going?

I love going out with a camera, G, I find it focuses my mind on the small things in front of me and I walk about looking for something to take shots of instead of my mind wandering and doing it's negative stuff!  We're doing road safety at the moment (myself and my boy) so our project this afternoon is to take lots of pictures around town of different kinds of traffic, obstacles on pavements, safe and unsafe places to cross, that sort of thing, and I'm quite excited about it!  Lol

I am just reading on the forums at the minute; I'm finding them very useful with lots of tips and handy info and I've read a couple of people's poems and I do think I have written a couple of bits that are of similar quality so it is helping to boost my confidence a bit.  I'm trying to spend a bit of time each day working on/learning about poetry, story writing and photography; they're all things that I enjoy and I do like focusing on a skill or a hobby rather than 'world issues' which seem to dominate most other platforms on the internet (all anyone can talk or write about here is the referendum and I just want to ignore it now!).  But yes, the forums are good, a new place for me to start casting my eye around in, just trying to get myself out of my rut.

There are some great pics on Ello, I don't know if you know it, G?  It's a social media site but focuses on creativity rather thqn chatter

[Twoapenny]

Second session with new T tonight.  She uses a technique called LifeSpan - don't know if it's around in the States (or called the same thing) but it's a way of attaching new emotions to old memories so that triggers don't cause as many problems.  In essence, you imagine a scenario in your mind where you 'rescue' your younger self from the trauma that is happening, or you focus on a good memory in a certain period and that becomes your anchor so you feel good things rather than bad when something from that era is triggered.

We've not started on it properly yet, just had a little practise tonight so that I could get an idea of what it's like.  She asked me for my earliest memory, which is age 3, peeling stickers off of new shoes.  Age four was my favourite pair of flares and age five was sitting on my dad's lap driving his car down the drive.  They were happy memories, which surprised me, because looking backwards is generally always negative for me.  But her suggestion is you go with the first one that comes to mind for that age group (you try to find one for every year of your life) and my immediate ones were happy ones and I did leave feel a lot more content than I did when I got there!  I'm not sure how it works when you have a bad memory and go in to rescue yourself from it but I'm feeling positive about it and looking forward to going back next week

[lighter]

Hi Tupp:

You're working on you!  So deserved. 

This is as good a spot to post this link about Brain Spotting, which I've just learned about, and have just started to research..... it's similar to EMDR, but different... much more open model.

http://www.ask.com/youtube?q=brainspotting+therapists&v=lm3Plvaf3UE&qsrc=472

You may have to copy and paste the above link.

This makes a lot of sense to me.   Congrats to starting with new T: )

(((Tupp)))

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Hi Tupp:

You're working on you!  So deserved. 

This is as good a spot to post this link about Brain Spotting, which I've just learned about, and have just started to research..... it's similar to EMDR, but different... much more open model.

http://www.ask.com/youtube?q=brainspotting+therapists&v=lm3Plvaf3UE&qsrc=472

You may have to copy and paste the above link.

This makes a lot of sense to me.   Congrats to starting with new T: )

(((Tupp)))

Lighter

Hi Lighter, thank you for the link!  Will read through a bit later.

Yes, I like this T, I have a good feeling about her.  She's a bit older than me, which I like, seems very nurturing and caring (which I also like), gets on with things, has told me straight that the sessions are about me, not her so I'm to tell her if I'm not happy/comfortable/don't want to do something and I'm not to worry about her at all (this was after I told her that my people pleasing traits have sometimes meant therapy didn't go as well for me as it could have done in the past).

I do feel that the sexual abuse is my 'thing' at the moment; did feel able to talk about it relatively easily (which I've never been able to before).  She was quite direct on my behalf, which I liked, made it very clear that what happened was appalling and was serious and that I've been let down by a lot of people who should have helped, which is nice to hear from someone else even though I knew it already.  All in all I am feeling this is a good move and that she can help me get to my next stage!

How is everything going with you? xx

[lighter]

Tupp:

DD15 is happily nested in new Boarding School.... she knows some girls there, so she's very happy to have that support and familiar community.   She's invested in sisterhood and supporting other young women while asking for support.  It's lovely to watch her blossom.  She's smiling all the time, and using her voice, TUPP! 

I sent a care package today..... books, magazines, book light, work out shoes, calendar and planner.  A watch.  She's really on a good path, and the Brain Spotting is one of the things that her T is using.  He's wonderful, and it seemed like every word from him was dead on, and overtly helpful.  He has 30 years experience in this work..... I feel so blessed.

I'm going back to school in the fall, and have lots of research to do before that happens.  I feel very content bustling about in the house on my own.... not lonely at all.  Very.... content. 

Glad you're happy with your T.... you deserve to finish up the past, put a bow on it and move ahead.

These are your days, Tupp: )

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Tupp:

DD15 is happily nested in new Boarding School.... she knows some girls there, so she's very happy to have that support and familiar community.   She's invested in sisterhood and supporting other young women while asking for support.  It's lovely to watch her blossom.  She's smiling all the time, and using her voice, TUPP! 

I sent a care package today..... books, magazines, book light, work out shoes, calendar and planner.  A watch.  She's really on a good path, and the Brain Spotting is one of the things that her T is using.  He's wonderful, and it seemed like every word from him was dead on, and overtly helpful.  He has 30 years experience in this work..... I feel so blessed.

I'm going back to school in the fall, and have lots of research to do before that happens.  I feel very content bustling about in the house on my own.... not lonely at all.  Very.... content. 

Glad you're happy with your T.... you deserve to finish up the past, put a bow on it and move ahead.

These are your days, Tupp: )

Lighter

Aw she sounds as if she's having a great time, Lighter, what amazing news!  Glad that you are happy pottering at home, I do enjoy a bit of a potter myself these days, particularly at weekends, it's quite nice just to catch up on jobs and spend a bit of time reading and not doing too much.  What are you going to be doing when you go back to school?

Yes, she seems like a good T, I think perhaps once you've been working on yourself for a while good T's are harder to find?  I think my needs have changed and become more specific?  When I first started just someone letting me speak would have been amazing, I think I was very lucky that my first ever T happened to be amazing and that I found her pretty much by accident.

She's asked me to write up one memory from each year of my life for us to work on.  The focus is very much on how the memories make you feel.  So for example I can remember a pair of flares when I was four, my favourite trousers and I just loved them, and just thinking about them now makes me smile.  There's a little girl that lives on our road who loves clothes and is always wearing her mum and big sister's stuff and she's always so chuffed with what she's got on, she stands in the garden so she can show everyone as they leave for work in the morning which shoes she's got on.  So cute.

But there are huge gaps!  Years where I really can't think of a single thing I can remember  And then lots of other memories where I know something happened but it feels like it happened to someone else, there's no feeling or emotion attached to it at all, or even a sense of reality.  It's like something I read in a book.  So it will be interesting to see how we handle those bits.  I'm a bit scared of more stuff coming back.  I know what he did, but I don't think I want to recall it in technicolour.  Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Twoapenny]

I'm working out regularly now (and enjoying it) and have made some improvements to my diet.  Do feel fitter and more toned.

My son is doing well health wise at the moment and that makes life sooooo much easier so that is really good.

It has finally stopped raining and we have some proper sunshine!  The difference good weather makes to me is so huge that I think I need to give serious thought to moving to a warmer/sunnier country at some point.

I am consciously reaching out to the (small) group of friends I have who are very dear to me and making the effort to arrange seeing them over the summer break.  I am also 'consciously' arranging/planning a small birthday celebration that will involve only those people I really want to see and not 'everyone who might know about it that I will just invite so they don't feel slighted that they haven't been asked'.  Although I know this is the right (and perfectly acceptable) thing to do I am struggling with it but keep reminding myself that I do not have to be all things to all people and that it is only right that I should spend time with people I enjoy spending time with, not with people I don't particularly want to see.  Difficult but I am doing it (and will let you know how it pans out!).

Work on the van is slow and I am discovering that most of the jobs that have been done by other people (prior to my buying it) have been done badly so each job I do is leading to another ten needing to be done.  I am enjoying it (although I do find it frustrating at times), I'm learning a lot and it is very heart warming to be making connections with local businesses who are going out of their way to give me help and advice when I go in to buy the bits I need.  I am starting to feel comfortable in builder's merchants and auto part shops which is quite a funny feeling.  We are getting there but it's taking a lot longer than I though and is costing a lot more money, but hopefully we will eventually have a really lovely, comfortable, fully functioning home away from home that we can mooch about in to our hearts' content.

I am really struggling with being around people in general, and particularly with regard to internet dating.  I find I get bored very quickly and I really do not connect with many people's conversations that centre around television, smart phones, which deal they got on whatever it is they just purchased and how many take aways they've had this week.  I'm struggling to find places, whether in the real world or online, where I feel comfortable with people and enjoy their company rather than finding it hard work.  I think this is more down to me than it is to them but I'm not quite sure how to tackle it, but am hoping that 'recognising' it will take me a step closer.

Internet dating in particular is bothering me; men in their forties whose conversation revolves around football, sex and television is something I'm finding quite depressing so I think I'm going to lay off that for a while until my head is in a slightly more upbeat frame of mind.

Financially things are a bit tight but we're managing okay and as it is mostly to do with unexpected costs to do with the van things are slowly levelling out.

Generally things are going well; I am still finding the lack of people difficult but I'm working on it

[Twoapenny]

I've watched this YouTube clip a couple of times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6sC4GK93_4

It's about coping with loneliness, which is something I really struggle with.

It's quite complex and I don't completely understand it but it is ringing some bells with me.  He's generally saying that we blame our unhappiness on a lack of things - lack of friends/family/partner in this case.  And he says that the 'lack' makes us feel that we aren't good enough/likeable etc which is why there is a lack.

That is very, very true of me.  He then goes on to talk about people simply not fitting with other people, rather than there being something wrong with them and gives lots of examples of situations where people don't fit in with the people around them.  He makes the point that that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, it just means you don't fit that particular situation.

He also talks about how we focus on what people think of us (needed a picture of Tup to illustrate that point ) and how we create anxiety by concentrating on trying to impress people and make them like us instead of just 'being present'.

I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this; there's a lot that I don't understand and I want to watch it several more times but something about it is speaking to me.

[Twoapenny]

Counselling session tonight was amazing.  She took me back to my first memory of being abused, which we had talked about a bit last week.

She asked me to imagine how I would react if I witnessed that event now, what I would say and do and how I would handle it as an adult seeing a child being abused.  I said my first reaction would be to remove young Tup from the situation immediately and that my second would be to lay into my step-dad and give him his marching orders.  Then I started to say that I didn't really know what I would say to my mum because she doesn't work on the same wave length as everybody else so trying to get her to understand that what she'd just witnessed was wrong would be difficult as she just doesn't think that way.

She stopped me at that point and pointed out that my first instinct in that scenario was to protect my mum and to explain to other people what her inabilities were and to try to get others to treat her differently.  She said a usual response would be to protect the child, not the adult.  And it just suddenly seemed so clear; thirty years on, even in a counselling situation that is all about me, my first thought is to protect her and justify the things that happened.  It was a real revelation.

Then she starts with the visualising so we spent some time deep breathing and relaxing and then she asked me to watch the incident in my mind, which I did.  Then she asked me to go in as my adult self and remove my young self and my younger sister (who was present at the time) to a place of safety, which I did.  She then asked me to talk to young Tup and ask her what she wanted me to do about what had just happened and then to go and do it, so I tore a strip off of him and threw him out and then had a right go at my mum as well.

I was crying buckets by this time; it was so strong and the sensation, although imaginary, of someone getting angry on young Tup's behalf, putting her first, making sure she was safe, asking her opinion (never happened when I was a kid!  Not once) and then acting on it, everything being entirely in her best interests, no excuses, no half measures.  It was incredibly strong and exhilarating.  I feel exhausted now!  But I'm actually looking forward to going back and working on the next bit!

[Hopalong]

((((((Tupp)))))

I literally got chills when I read this account of how real, how trusting, and how brave you are.

Plus, I LOVE your new counselor!

I'm so excited for you that you have intersected with her at the right time, when you are truly ready to do this kind of deep healing.

Oh BRAVO. Just dizzy-glad, deep inside, for you...

love,
Hops