My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This

[bunny]

I left out the kicker from yesterday.  I was getting tired of having him tell me I was not correct in various ways without offering any suggestions or reframing, interpretation, explanation, or otherwise being helpful.  So, I told him I believe that the therapy is not being very helpful and asked him what he thought was going on in the session.  He said, "You don't want to listen to what I think!"

A former therapist once addressed me in a frighteningly hostile manner (gee, I'd blocked the memory until now). I left the room immediately and never returned. I would do the same in this case. Therapists lose patients when they have no idea what they're doing. That is their problem, not the patient's. It's like any other professional. You can fire them!

His "patient contract" is not valid, you can't be arrested or sued for ignoring it. It's his way to stop patients from leaving.  You don't ever have to go back and see him. You don't ever have to talk to him on the phone. You can leave a message saying you will not be coming to any more appointments and you are going to see someone else. THAT IS PERFECTLY OKAY. He may call you anyway but don't take his call! He shouldn't call you but I suspect he would. You are an incredibly reliable patient, he knows what he's losing and won't want you to leave. That's tough.

I'm so sorry that this guy was such a loser.  

bunny

[vunil]

So, I told him I believe that the therapy is not being very helpful and asked him what he thought was going on in the session. He said, "You don't want to listen to what I think!" I told him that I was trying to understand and did want to hear what he thought. That's when he told me that he wasn't being supportive because he didn't believe that my wife's behavior qualifies as abuse. (At least then I could understand why he keeps telling me "No, I think you're wrong" without offering any other feedback. Not , that I agree with him.)

WOW.  I don't know what else you can do-- you really did communicate with him and he sure enough didn't "get it."  My post before was just to try to see if there could be something to gain from being honest with him, but you were and his reaction was completely inappropriate.  

I'm not sure why I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt-- sorry.  I have always had really wonderful therapists and have a bit of an idealizing thing going with them I think.  But I know there are bad ones out there.  

I wouldn't even be friends with someone who acted this way.  And I sure as heck wouldn't have that kind of person as my therapist.  

I agree with everyone else-- run away!  And that contract is completely b.s.   In fact, for me it signals that he's had folks leave before and he wants to "keep them" from leaving. Which, ick.

And you don't even have to tell him why you are leaving at this point-- you have been honest with him and he should know.

[mum]

HI, Lontire: I have been busy, and not posting much, but it occured to me that perhaps you are still stuck trying to make everyone believe you, or validate you, at the expense of your own opinion of yourself.

IMO a therapist who compounds your life by making THAT relationship a concern/worry is simply a waste of your precious energy. Same goes for a spouse doing the same thing.  I know.  

The best thing I ever did for myself and my children, was to learn to respect my own opinions and feelings, and to validate them myself.  I spent years (most of my life) trying to please everyone else.  Guess what? That NEVER works.  It can't be done.  I realized that I did this because I didn't believe I was good enough, loveable enough, (whatever negative self concepts go here) to actually DESERVE what I really wanted out of life.  When I started to change my internal "tape" if you will and my core beliefs about myself (which were scewed by any number of experiences) only then was I able to trust myself.
It was a pretty scary place to go, and at first I was afraid to look at myself, so I put the blame on everyone else;
"they don't think I should do this"
"I need a really good looking reason for whatever I do, so I won't be questioned...which would lead me to question myself again." (which I found out would happen anyway: a vicious cycle as it were).

I should not have been so afraid.  I had a therapist who helped me do this (and this is why I would dump yours immediately).  I decided to have a little faith in myself, in God/whatever, and take a good look.  I was pleasantly surprised.  I AM a good person.  I never want to hurt anyone (sound familiar?  I think it's what leads a lot of us into N relationships).  I DESERVE good treatment, I deserve my dreams.  I won't suddenly become "one of them" if I look out for myself.  As a matter of fact, I heal others if I heal myself.

You deserve happiness. We all do.  Look inside.  I rather doubt you will find a monster.  I am not clairvoyent, but I get a sense that you are a good soul, so why should you put up with/try to figure out all this garbage your supposed therapist is dumping on you.  They are like lawyers, we want soooo much for them to know what they are doing, but the truth is, they are just human, and some are not a good match for us.

When I was with my ex, he had a way of getting me all turned around in my head...he used my poor self image against me always.  They are expert in "f***ing" with our heads.  I have to help my kids diffuse that all the time (as my son said: "you got to divorce him...I'm stuck with him as my dad!!"). I realize when I am getting confused, it's his energy again (through my kids) and realizing this is essential for me.  

It's not MY energy anymore.  I am love.  Peel away layers and we all are.  (the N's are just stuck in those layers).  A therapist who keeps you focusing on those awful layers of pain.....and makes you justify wanting to leave them behind, is not doing you any good, and actually is setting you back.
Good luck, Longtire.  Bless you.

[vunil]

IMO a therapist who compounds your life by making THAT relationship a concern/worry is simply a waste of your precious energy.

I agree, and apologize again if it seemed as if I was taking his side over yours, Longtire. I really never meant that!  I guess I just want so badly for you to have support.  I want you to have a great therapist I wish this guy were it.

But he sure as heck isn't.

[Lara]

Dear Longtire,
A few thoughts, similar to those of the posters above, have been going round my head, and if I ask you a couple of questions, they are not meant to put you on the spot in any way.
Firstly, what is the importance for you of a therapist agreeing that your wife is abusive and not 'merely' a very difficult and unloving person?
And second, as Mum noted above, the people we post about here who have traumatised us so much, really turn our heads inside out.A question for everybody really...does the fact that we feel SO confused and damaged mean that we have definitely been abused in some way,or that we have been dealing with a sick person, or just plain hurt, betrayed, etc.

Sincerely,
Lara.

[Stormchild Guesting]

Hi Lara

Our feelings of damage and confusion are definite indications that we have been damaged and confused, usually deliberately .

-- one of the first things an abuser does when 'grooming' a target is teach that target to doubt his or her perceptions of reality (you don't really feel that way, you don't really think that, I'm beating you because I love you). Voila, confusion.  

After enough abuse, the target begins to realize that they've been harmed emotionally (if not also physically.) Voila, feelings of damage.

One of the hardest climbs we have to make is the climb back up out of the valley of believing we don't know what we feel, can't trust what we feel, don't know when we're being hurt. that's why an invalidating or frankly hostile therapist does so much damage. Instead of helping us climb out, they're kicking us back down the ladder.

Try 'The Verbally Abusive Relationship' and 'Controlling People', both by Patricia Evans. She's nailed this cold.

[Anonymous]

Last night was rough, with a lot of feelings of loneliness and self-doubt.  But, I did finally manage to get some sleep.  Today, I feel something is changed since I was able to be open to just feeling last night.  Today is a beautiful day and I feel happy again. I love that I have feelings and they change!

I know that what I am doing at this point in my life is growing up emotionally.  I'm still emotionally enough of a little kid that I hate the experience of feeling frustrated, confused, hurt, alone and adandoned AGAIN. I'm grown up enough to realize that these are exactly where I most need to grow to be happy and healthy.  I recognize that the more open and welcoming I am to these feelings without trying to avoid them by "fixing" them or "doing something" about them, the more I grow each time they come up.  I also realize that this has been happening all my life, and it hasn't killed me yet!  It used to be terrifying, now its just inconvenient.

The ambivalence I feel is a result of the confusion in my feelings and thoughts.  The confusion is not a result of something else, it is a memory of my experience of growing up.  It is how I know that I'm am back in an area that I have tremendous growth potential in. The confusion does not mean that I am damaged or that there is anything wrong with me, like I used to fear.  I don't know where that fear went.  I am very self-accepting and self-validating today.  I don't KNOW why besides what is in these paragraphs, it just is.  I'm good with that.

I don't NEED a therapist right now.  I'm making tremendous progress directing my own learning and growth (if I say so myself ), with prayer, reading, thought, feeling, and suggestions and support from many people.  I WANTED a therapist to make this easier for me and reduce the rough nights.  I wasn't getting what I needed from this therapist, so I'm not going to continue.  I'm going to call and tell this therapist that I'm not going to continue to see him, and cancel the next scheduled appointment.  I'm not sure yet whether I will look for another therapist, I will wait and see how I feel.  Vunil, perhaps you were giving him the benefit of the doubt because you see things in a balanced way, and I was already holding on enough to the negative view of things?  In any case, no apology necessary.

Right now, I want to sleep by myself in my own bed in my own place.  I want to have a say in how my place is, without having to fight just to be recognized.  I'm willing to sleep on the floor, eat off paper plates, and anything else I need to do to get that.  I don't expect I will need to do that.  I'm well off financially right now, but not rich.  No one will die or even starve, be homeless, etc. because I do this.  Why have I been wrapped around a pole on this?  I think I know.  I was trying to work this out mutually with my wife, and she is not able to do that with me.  Now, I am working it out for myself.

My wife does not treat me with respect.  I don't get even my most basic wants or needs met in relationship with her.  I no longer need to know anything else about that.  I do not want to continue being married to her.  I don't need anyone else's permission (even God's) to live my life and take the best care of myself that I can.  All of the searching for permissions, reasons, or decisions was simply avoiding me taking my own power out of fear.  I accept the responsibilities for my decisions and my behavior.

[longtire]

Again things that I’ve said concerning you and your situation are only my thoughts and impressions and I very well could be wrong about any number of things.  If nothing else the length of my last post and this post will help contribute to the length of this thread.  Are you sure you don't want to change your name to "Longthread" ?

LM, I identify with that!  :D:D:D

I'm not sure who asked.  I picked longtire because it took me a long time to tire of the situation enough to do something about it.  Thank God I finally did!

[Anonymous]

Now that sounds to me like you have your stuff together .  And feelings they come and go and we do need to pay attention to them but they alone do not control who and what we are, we have reasoning also.  And if we take advantage of life, we never do STOP growing, it’s a life long process to either enjoy or avoid.

LM

[Portia]

Longtire, so what will you do instead of going to therapy, if anything? Will you go for a walk in the woods, go and look at some art, go swimming…..buy yourself a motorbike (if you don’t have one)?

It’s not at all the most important thing you said above, but I love the line about eating off paper plates. That just about says it. Just what is important in life? P

[sleepyhead]

A belated reply here, I've been away from the board for awhile, but I felt that I had to respond to this:

My therapist told me today that the reason he has not been supporting the things I've been saying is that he does not believe what my wife does qualifies as verbal abuse, emotional abuse or psychological abuse. According to him, the person doing the abuse must be doing it intentionally and must be trying to cause the feelings or doubts by swearing or name-calling.

What? Emotional abuse is only swearing and name-calling? This therapist doesn't know what he is talking about, and how can he possibly be a therapist if he doesn't know better than this? Even I know that emotional abuse can be so much more, and is a much wider concept than this. And if a person has a PD then they may not be consciously aware of their motives for doing things (even "normal" people are sometimes not aware for their motives of doing things). Does he actually have any professional training? If so, it seems as if he has forgotten much of it and needs a refresher course! I agree with everyone else here: leave him!
Otherwise, congratulations on your progress and your newly found strength to choose!
Sleepy

[longtire]

My relationship with my wife is based on control rather than friendship, respect, and caring.  I realized this after reading the following thread.  I was trying to treat this as a mutual relationship, when it has never had that basis.  Its obvious now why what I was doing didn't work.  I wrote a lot of these points down so I can continue to refer to them if I get confused about what a healthy relationship looks like.

http://www.drirene.com/catbox/index.php?showtopic=11241

Now that sounds to me like you have your stuff together . And feelings they come and go and we do need to pay attention to them but they alone do not control who and what we are, we have reasoning also. And if we take advantage of life, we never do STOP growing, it’s a life long process to either enjoy or avoid.

Another rough night for me last night.  I feel like my life and choices is like a tree getting pummeled by a storm.  Before, the storm would knock my tree over every time.  Now, I get blown back and forth violently, but the tree is still rooted in the ground the next morning.  At times I've wished that I could be as oblivious as other people often seem to be.  To go through life never considering whether what I'm doing is hurting or helping other people since I would feel great about myself all the time.  But to do that, I would have to give up awareness of the good and beuatiful along with awareness of the ugly.  That is too high a price for me to pay, even if it were possible.

Longtire, so what will you do instead of going to therapy, if anything? Will you go for a walk in the woods, go and look at some art, go swimming…..buy yourself a motorbike (if you don’t have one)?

Portia, I will feel my feelings and be open to my desires.  On a more practical level I will do more cycling and get more rest.

[Anonymous]

Hi Longtire:

Sorry to hear you had another not so great night.  Tonight will be better.

I wrote a lot of these points down so I can continue to refer to them if I get confused about what a healthy relationship looks like.

That's a good idea.  Maybe even take it a step further and write down what was/is missing in this marriage that you are ending.  Based on control is a very big point.  What else is not there?

As you go along and if you feel yourself weakening, or having second thoughts about why you are ending it, you can refer to those two lists:  the one that has all the stuff that makes for a good relationship and the one that has all the stuff that was/is missing so far, leaving a void.

At times I've wished that I could be as oblivious as other people often seem to be. To go through life never considering whether what I'm doing is hurting or helping other people since I would feel great about myself all the time.

Why do I get the feeling that you're getting down on yourself, possibly thinking that in ending your marriage... you will be hurting other people??

Are you ever a rotten person for wanting a relationship that is mutual and caring!!!  

What a crumb you are, Longtire, for ending a relationship that is causing you emotional pain and is doing no one any good.

How crazy of you to want to set an example for your daughter of at least...what NOT to tolerate and what NOT to stay stuck in!!

And all this thinking and writing and considering and working things out you've been doing, before coming to the decision to divorce, Longtire, you dirty dog you!!!  What a waste of time that was eh??

Do I sound ridiculous yet??

I hope so because those are totally silly statements. Not true!!

The first step is thinking about it all.  The next is deciding.  After that comes getting used to the idea, accepting it, planning, and finally.....doing it.

It will take time to adjust and move on but you will do it, Longtire.
And there will be less hurt for all, in the long run, right?
Sort of like comparing a few days of having a cold to years and years of suffering from lung disease.
There will be discomfort but there will be healing too.

I wonder if it might be a good idea to find a therapist to help you through the next phase?

Hope you have a better night tonight!!

GFN

[longtire]

Sorry to hear you had another not so great night.  Tonight will be better.

Thank you.  I'm sure I'll sleep better tonight if only from exhaustion!

At times I've wished that I could be as oblivious as other people often seem to be. To go through life never considering whether what I'm doing is hurting or helping other people since I would feel great about myself all the time.

Why do I get the feeling that you're getting down on yourself, possibly thinking that in ending your marriage... you will be hurting other people??

Actually, I think that was more self-pity.  Thanks for pointing it out.  I'm trying to cut down.  Sometimes (a lot lately) I get really tired of learning, growing, working, changing, etc. even though I like the results.  I still have childish fantasies of being DONE where I can just live life and I already know everything I will ever need to know to be satisfied and happy.

Do I sound ridiculous yet??

Yes.      

I hope so because those are totally silly statements. Not true!!

I agree, but I enjoyed your bit of theater a lot!      

I found this on the following website.  When I read it 2-3 months ago I thought it was a good idea, but today I really GET IT.  In terms of this marriage I believe that I'm working on step 5.  Kinda feels good to be nearer then end than the beginning.

http://www.helpyourselftherapy.com/topics/

 WHAT TO DO ABOUT EXPECTATIONS YOU HAVE ABOUT OTHERS
1) Decide what the other person would have to actually do for you to be satisfied.
2) Ask for these specific behaviors from them. (This usually includes teaching and giving concrete examples.)
3) Examine your standards: (Can you change your standards to make them better for you?)
4) Accept that things are what they are (after you've done a good job of #1 and #2).
5) Be responsible: (For either staying in this situation or for finding a better one.)

[chutzbagirl - reply]

Hi Longtire,

Sorry the past couple of nights have been rough.     I hope you start feeling grounded soon.  Loss is loss - even if it's the loss of a dream we still get blown around a bit.

Take care - prayers your way.

Chutzbagirl