My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This

[Brigid]

Longtire,
First, just some practical information--you should be able to call your primary care physician and explain what you are going through, and he or she should be able to give you a prescription for sleep meds.  You shouldn't need a psych to do that.  I have used them for years, but needed them non-stop for the year after H left.  You need sleep to think clearly and you will not be able to make any good decisions if you are sleep deprived.

Next, your living situation.  I agree with LM that to begin with, an apartment (probably with 2 BR's so you can have your daughter there and able to bring your cat) with just a short-term lease is probably the way to go.  You will find that being in your own space, knowing that you will not come home to the constant tension and anxiety will help you more than you know.  I sobbed for days when I had to put my beautiful home up for sale, but by the time I had packed everything up, I was ready to go.  I moved here and really had no energy for the first 3-4 months to do anything but unpack the necessities.  Eventually, though my energy grew and I started getting interested and then excited about making this space my own.  I had to buy a home because I had the 2 kids, 2 dogs and 3 cats to have a home for, but if it had been just me with a cat, I would definitely have opted for something smaller with no maintenance until I had my feet more firmly planted.  Find something that has a sunny patio or some feature that allows you a pleasant place to sit and reflect.  You need time to rebuild your energy and really figure out how you want to proceed.

I'm keeping you in my prayers and hoping that you can find the peace you so desperately deserve.

((((((((longtire/thread/post)))))))))))))

Brigid

[bunny as guest]

Hi longtire,

It sucks to be the one who has to move out. I had to, when I decided to leave my first marriage. Boy did I resent it. I had to live with my N-sister and then my boss (because I couldn't stand my sister). There was a severe rental shortage where I lived. When I went to look at a place, there were already 30 people there competing for it. Somehow, I was chosen by a landlord to rent a cute little cottage and I was so happy there. Don't lose hope. keep looking. You will be glad you did in the long run.

{{{ longtire }}}

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Longtire:

How do I get un-crazy?

When you find out, please let me know.  

This situation is similar to your past.  You felt unloved, overwhelmed and alone.  You married a woman and feel unloved, overwhelmed and alone.  Right?

No wonder the wounds of the past are opening up and driving you batty!

The thing is Longtire, you survived the past.  You grew up.  You're not batty (completely, yet , just kidding), and....you're actually wayyyy ahead of where you were because you are able to see things from an adult perspective (which as a child, would have been impossible), right?

What if you ARE accurate and not crazy after all??  Your feelings are telling you that you are not loved.  The thoughts of changing the situation are many and overwhelming but you can live through it!  Maybe you're afraid that you'll be MORE alone when you go?

I thought that too.  From my experience, I was pleasantly surprised.  I was greatly relieved when my X finally left.  I asked him to leave, so it is a different situation, but I felt much like you....unloved, overwhelmed and alone.  It was such a relief not to have to deal with him any more.  Not to have to shovel his junk away from me all the time.

I stayed in the matrimonial home and there were a lot of memories and it was hard.  I would have moved, in a minute but I stayed there for the kids.  I wanted their lives disrupted as little as possible.  They lost their parents, as a unit, but at least they didn't lose their home, their friends, their school, their neighbourhood, etc.  I was lucky that my X was reasonable enough to work things out with but I gotta say....it felt very empty when he left (even though we were all miserable when he was there).

Maybe we even miss misery when it leaves because it's such a drastic change??  

Anyway......I understand your frustration and fears about looking for a place.   Here's what helps me (part of my decision making formula):

1.  Think of the worst possible thing that can happen.

2.  Accept it.

3.  Make a plan for it.

4.  And forget it because the chances of the worst possible thing                happening are just about zilch.

Still.....at least if you think of the worst and it happens, at least you'll have thought about it once before and have a plan for it.

!.   So.......you find a place and the worst thing that could happen is that you hate it, can't stand it, are totally unhappy there, right?

2.  Fine.  Decide now that you won't die if that happens.  After all, it's just a place and it doesn't have to be permanent, does it?  So ok, you can live in this not so great place, if you have to, because you know it won't last forever and because you know it will get you away from a relationship in which you feel unloved, overwhelmed and alone.  At least it will be your own place and you won't have to be in such a relationship any more.

3.  The plan.  You can simply keep looking for a better place, after that.  In the mean time, you can make that not so great place as comfy and homey as possible.  You can focus on other things in your life besides the place in which you live.  You can go out more and become a social butterfly.  You can join activities and spend more time living than worrying about where you lay your head at night.  You can easily live through such a not so great place.  You don't HAVE to hate it and you can find a better place.

4.  Forget it all because the chances are much higher that you will find a fairly nice place, or at least, an ok place and be content.

Best of luck, Longtire.  Glad you're seeing your new counsellor soon and hope you will get to a GP and get a sleep med because (sorry forgot who said it....but they're right...)....you need your sleep to function at your peek and to avoid potentially feeling worse.

GFN

[longtire]

Thanks LM, Brigid, bunny and lurkers.  I really don't know where I would be emotionally right now without support from the people here.  It really makes a big, big difference for me.

For some reason around here I can get a rental house bigger than an apartment for less money!?  I would prefer this extra phsycial space inside the house and out so I don't have to worry about noise or neighbors sharing a wall.  It would feel more "mine" than a unit of  apartments.  Apparently, the trick is to find a house and rent it quickly, before anyone else does.  I am willing to work harder on this short term to get what I want in the longterm without settling for what is easily available.  I'm really tired of settling for things in my life right now. I have leased, bought, cleaned, moved, furnished, etc. many times in the past.  I am confident I can and am handling this aspect of the situation fine.  That really isn't the main issue.

The main problem these days is that I feel emotionally overwhelmed most of the time.  I'm not sure how much of this is "memory" of how I felt overwhelmed as a kid and how much may be due to depleted emotional resources at the moment due to years of stress and accelerated by recent changes.  I feel like I don't have enough time to get everything done, feel and accept my feelings, and get enough rest.  I don't know how to process overwhelm.  I am getting a lot better at processing my emotions by welcoming them in, making room for them, appreciating them, valuing them, and connecting them to my internal family.  How do I process overwhelm?  Sometimes I shift in and out of this because of the emotional work I do or the realizations I have.  Sometimes, it just seems to shift on its own, for no apparent reason.  It is hard to make this post, because I'm afraid this means that there really is something fundamentally wrong with me.

I don't know who I am anymore.  I have changed so much over the last year and especially the last few months, that I'm not sure "who" I am or what I believe anymore.  I can see that this is a byproduct of growing and changes in the way I think about myself, relationships, God, and everything else.  I've never been more healthy in my life, but I question and second guess everything now.  I guess before I had self-confidence, even if it was false or based on incorrect assumptions.  Now I feel like I have no confidence.  I can make decisions, but feel like I'm being selfish by recognizing what is best for me and taking steps to get there.

OK, everytime I post like this here I get insights like just now.  I have seen myself as my wife's "fixer" or the "fixer" of this relationship for so long that I don't recognize just plain old me anymore.  Without that role to guide me, I've forgotten how to interpret things.  I have been questioning and resisting and feeling overwhelmed because I am NOT following that script anymore.  It will take some time to learn to recognize myself and feel comfortable with myself again.  I've been the other way for a long time now.  I can see that a lot of the changes that I've been making has been dropping ideas, feelings, thoughts, and beliefs that were not me.  How is it a realization like this can change your whole outlook on things?  Wow!  I've just gone from excruciating discomfort to relief in just a few moments.

I still feel somewhat guilty about making choices that are best for me, but not what my wife wants.  What do I owe her?  Maybe that is not the right question.  How do I want to relate to her from now on?  Not as a project or a distraction from my own feelings, that's for sure!  I'll keep thinking about this and see what feelings come up for me.

[Stormchild Guesting]

Hey longtire

One of the most reliable traps for me is when it takes almost all my energy for me to decide to make a change, and then I encounter a bunch of obstacles the second I begin working on that change.

Makes me want to crawl under the bed and just stay there, forever.

Hang in there... and good luck. When you get near moving day, PM me about moving with kitties. I've moved transcontinentally and transatlantically with mine; there are some easy tricks that can really save wear and tear on both the cat and you.

hugs

Stormchild

[Anonymous]

Hi longtire,

You have already paid off any debt to your wife.

bunny

[longtire]

I am feeling much better tonight.  I don't have things figured out by a long shot, but recognizing that part of me was still holding onto that "fixing" obligation feeling and beating myself up about it really helped.  At first I did it to help her and fulfill my spousal obligations to be strong when I could.  More recently I realized that she chose what she was doing and had no intention of changing no matter what I did.  Not only do I not have to do that anymore.  Even more importantly, I don't have to even TRY to do that anymore.  I don't have to want to do it or need to do it.

This place and the people here are a miracle.  I don't know of anywhere else (I've been looking!) where I can either rant unintelligibly or write my deepest thoughts and feelings and be supported and understood in both cases.  Where no matter what I write there are always two or three people who chime in and say "Yes, I understand, I've had that too!"  I can't really express how grateful I am to be a part of this.

One last image for today.  I thought I had already dealt with this issue and the co-dependence.  And I had, to the extent I could see it.  Then this pops up again and I take another step in that area.  I got the image of wearing emotional leg shackles.  I can only step as far forward with my right foot as the placement of my left foot and the length of the shackles allows.  Then I step forward with my left foot, again only as far as the shackles allow.  I can't see or even comprehend the next step until have have taken this current one.  Some times I take a step in one area with my right foot and then take a step in a completely different area with my left foot.  Despite the negative connotations of the shackles, this is a comforting image to me.  I don't have to solve all the problems right now (little coey voice in my ear), I just have to take the next, small step.

[Anonymous]

longtire, melody beattie had a really good analogy like your shackles.

driving at night through fog.

she was scared to death until she realized that if she kept a reasonable speed her headlights would light up enough of the road in front for her to keep going, and they would always reach just far enough in front for her to keep going.

worked for me too, i've driven home in fog and rain sometimes at 15 mph for hours, and i got there.

the big thing is not to give up because it's raining and dark

[longtire]

Argh!  My wife has been wanting to talk to me over the last several nights.  I can always tell, somehow.  She actually sits down while I am in the same room at the same time and watches TV, but somehow I still feel her attention on me.  I don't ask what is up anymore.  If she wants to talk she can talk.

She waited until my daughter had gone out and asked me if she could talk about something.  I said OK, but with trepidation.  I was eating and wish I had asked her to wait until I was finished.  I'll remember that boundary next time.  So, I finished eating while I was talking with her.

She wanted to know if I was willing to go back to small talk like we had been doing up until several weeks ago.  I told her that I stopped talking because I was tired of being the only one trying to start a conversation.  She told me that it was her impression that I stopped talking first.  She went on to say that both points of view were correct and nobody had to give up their point of view.  (Why does she always say this when she is in the wrong?  On some level she must be aware.)  Just for the record, I posted on here recently how I had given up trying to have a conversation since I realized I was the only one offering any information.  She actually has been in the house more recently.  Prior to the last couple of weeks she was always gone except for a few hours before I got home for work and to sleep.

She told me again that she wanted to just chit chat and have more fun and then one day when she is happy enough she will be willing to work on our issues again.  I asked her "how many times have I heard that?"  (Many, many promises of working things out someday!)  She gave that sickly smile where she is pissed off, but tries to smile anyway.  She didn't answer.  She told me that she felt uncomfortable when she tried to talk with me and I didn't say much back.  I said, "Welcome to my world, that's what I've gone through for the last 17 years!"  (So much for me not bringing up the past. )

I also told her that I hate this relationship.  I'm not interested in pretending nothing is wrong when we have such huge problems.  I told her that I want a relationship where we can have true intimacy and talk with each other.  To have emotional closeness and physical and sexual contact.  She ignored that and asked the question again.  I asked her if she was looking for my permission to talk.  I pointed out once again that it is her decision to talk or not.  I will not take responsibility for your behavior.

She kept asking several times if I was willing to talk small talk like that.  I asked her if she thought she heard me say I was not willing.  She said no, but that since I stopped talking first she wasn't sure.  I told her that I was tired of being blamed for her actions.  If she wants to talk she can talk.  If she doesn't want to talk she doesn't have to talk.  It is her choice.  She asked again.  I told her that it would depend on the instance.  I am not willing to give a blanket commitment to talk to you any time and any way you want.  I have also not made any blanket decision to not talk to you.  You can talk to me if you want, and I'll tell you if I don't want to talk for whatever reason.

Sorry for the changing points of view.  I'm so frustrated I could spit.  Not just about this, but about feeling so stuck right now.  See my next immediate post.  BTW, this conversation is not my proudest moment, but at least I did not put up with any of the bullshit pressure I would have in the past.  She can go around all day thinking I'm wrong and that I caused all this.  That is no different from any other day over the last 17 years!

[bunny]

longtire,

Good God man, she's lucky you were so nice to her. I'd be tempted to scream at her to get the f*#* out of the room before I really lose it. She seems determined to push your buttons. She manage to push mine too with her asinine request..

bunny

[longtire]

I feel so stuck right now.  So much has been churning around in my mind and my feelings.  I found a lease house I like, but haven't been able to bring myself to apply or put the deposit down on it.  My mind can appreicate that it means I'm just not ready for it yet.  However, my feelings and difficulty sleeping tell me to do something right now, dammit!!!!  I'm so tired of feeling like I'm stuck between two worlds that I don't really exist in either one.  However, I will NOT go back to being depressive or numbing out.  I will stick with my feelings this time no matter how unconfortable I am.  I am not even tempted to give that up again!

I used to be able to make decisions easily.  I would have told you that was one of my strengths!  These days I question everything from my state of mind (not unwarranted right now), to my goodness (however defined) as a human being, to my logic, to whether I am just being selfish, to whether I am insane and totally out of touch with reality.  I can make a decision, but then within hours or days make the exact opposite decision.  And feel equally strongly about both decisions.  I wonder whether my seratonin is out of whack.  The only other time I felt this desparate and discombobulated was when I really turned depressed.  I'm not depressed right now and definitely want to keep it that way.

I also saw my new counselor for the first time today.  She seems nice, but could hardly get a word in edgewise with longthread in the room. (At least I still have my unique sense of humor.)  I already have a positive transference with her, she feels like a wise older sister.  I went over why I left the last T and that I wanted a supportive, validating response from her, but still want to hear the truth.  I covered as much of my history as I was able in such a short period of time.  I realize that she can't give me an answer about what to do, no one else can, but I wonder if I shouldn't give counseling more time to help me make a good decision.  Then I wonder if this is just a convenient way to avoid making any decision at all.  

On one hand I recognize that I am in a poor state of mind to make a major decision about separating.  On the other I'm not sure how I will get to a better state of mind while I am still here.  Recognizing my current state of monumental indecision, I believe that it would be best to wait before making a decision.  But, then I feel like I've failed and let everyone here down.  I feel like I've failed to do what I need to do to take care of myself.  In any event, I will call my personal doctor tomorrow to get something to help me sleep.  There seems to be a serious shortage of psychiatrists in this town!  I'll keep trying to get a psychiatrist appointment in the meantime.  If I'm not just being "over-sensitive" and my seratonin really is out of whack then I can get something to help that.  Does anyone have experience with herbal remedies like St. John's Wart or similar?  I've been seriously thinking about trying something, but don't want to make things worse.

I wish I knew what to do to tip the balance here.  Tonight I'm going to re-read my affirmations and remind myself what a healthy relationship looks like.  I'm also going to list positives and negatives about leaving and see if the balance has tipped on that for me.  All support, pity, experience, insight, etc. gratefully accepted.  At least I don't feel alone with these things.  I'm very grateful to have you all here and my friends in the flesh here in my life.

[Stormchild]

Hey Long

You're doing the best you can, this stuff takes time and energy. Not to worry, we're cheering for you.

St. John's Wort works, it acts like an SSRI (such as Prozac) which means that you have to avoid taking other SSRIs or MAO inhibitors with it. there are other interactions as well. It is definitely a medicinal herb, and you do need to be mindful when using it.

Responses are variable. In fact I bet you get several differing reports on it if others here use it. It is an idiosyncratic herb. But usually effective.

Theanine, which is in green tea (and in black tea to a lesser extent), is also a powerful stress-reducer. I know less about its interactions; there is less in the literature at this point. But it's pretty benign stuff if you get it from green tea, so you may want to start there instead of SJW.

Three cups of strong green tea a day should mellow you out a bit, and you can drink it an hour before bedtime and not be kept awake. [If you find it's a bit 'fishy' tasting for you, try adding some honey or sugar.]

You will need to watch for sleepiness with theanine, but it's easy to drink less tea or not brew it as long.

I like that your new therapist is female, this may help a lot since so much pain has come your way from another female. Us gals here on the board are all pulling for you too.

Don't worry about talking a lot. You have to download a lot of stuff to a new t in the first few sessions. They understand.

PS PM me if you are thinking about using SJW, I have some publications on its interactions and I can send you some links. You need to be well informed if you take this herb... it really is strong medicine.

PSS Yes, I am an herbal medicine enthusiast... kind of a hobby.

[Brigid]

Longtire,
I know you are really struggling with this right now.  A separation need not necessarily be permanent.  That is why it's called a separation rather than a divorce.  You need some breathing room so you can sort out your thoughts, desires, plans for the future, whatever, without the stress of the relationship continually hanging over you.  Trust me, having been through this twice now, I know that you will feel more calm and sleep better if you just have some time to yourself.  I think if you stop looking at moving out as a drop dead decision, but just as a decision for now, it might be easier for you.  Nothing is set in stone until the final papers are signed, and you have a long way to go before that happens.  I have some acquaintances who have been separated for 9 months and no one has filed for divorce yet.  

I apologize if I sound pushy, but you sound like you need a bit of a nudge to get you unstuck.  My prayers are still going your way.

Brigid

[Portia]

Hi Longtire. Does the lease house feel right, in a Feng Shui kinda way?

Being able to make decisions easily is not necessarily a valuable skill. (I am in control, I can make decisions easily, send the troops in.)

These days I question everything from my state of mind (not unwarranted right now), to my goodness (however defined) as a human being, to my logic, to whether I am just being selfish, to whether I am insane and totally out of touch with reality. I can make a decision, but then within hours or days make the exact opposite decision. And feel equally strongly about both decisions.

This sounds pretty good to me. Sounds as though you’re really getting to the heart of something. And holding those opposing decisions in your head? That’s good. Seeing all the greys, questioning everything. The really good part about this state of mind is that it doesn’t last. It’s the process of finding out what you really think/feel/want. Sure it’s out of control, but what’s wrong with being out of control once in a while? This is a huge period of change for you. Expect some fear and confusion, you wouldn’t be human otherwise! Embrace the uncertainty and fear. You don’t sound like you’re becoming schizophrenic to me and that’s probably what would happen if you went off the edge. You know the difference between what’s in your head and what’s in external reality? You’re okay.

Isn’t it great to celebrate our weaknesses, our humanity, sometimes?

And you can celebrate this strong statement.

I'm not depressed right now and definitely want to keep it that way.

Such a life-full statement! It’s wonderful.

Then I wonder if this is just a convenient way to avoid making any decision at all.

So you can see yourself in 5 years time still living with S? Do you think you’d be able to avoid the decision for as long as you live? Please don’t be so hard on yourself. Take a day or two off from making decisions. It’s your call. You’re in charge.

But, then I feel like I've failed and let everyone here down. I feel like I've failed to do what I need to do to take care of myself.

Whoah!   Let us down? You don’t owe us anything. We don’t expect anything. Any one of us could disappear right now and what would it matter?

Fear of failure. If you fear failure too much, you’ll never do anything. “If you haven’t made any mistakes lately, you’re doing something wrong.”

What are you really afraid of? Moving out and not being able to move back? Choosing the wrong house to live in?

Eat the elephant in bite-size pieces. So what if you don’t take care of yourself? I bet you can eat, sleep and get to work. Or can you? What’s the worse thing you can imagine happening to you? Tell us the details, where the devil is! take care

[P]

Okay I really must go and ….do something useful…like…(vague image of nothingness appears later to be filled with trips to supermarket and the stuff that makes life what it is, fending off the knowledge that I have to find employment...)

But I just thought about you moving Longtire and wanted to say: you’ll have your internet access set up? So that IF you feel alone and/or lonely and want to connect (in all senses), you can? That would be paramount to me. Above food!

You’re never alone with a phone line and sometimes, angels come down them and into your room. True. Portia