My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This

[serena]

Longtire

I feel that we are coming on a 'journey' with you.  I think you are a loving, kind, compassionate person who has been downtrodden for far too long.

I hope you have the inner strength to look after yourself and your daughter throughout this process.

I also believe that in the future, you will meet an 'aware', loving and giving woman to share your life with.  This is the least you deserve after so many years of unhappiness.

Kindest Regards

[Brigid]

Longtire,
Getting mad is a necessary part of the cleansing and healing process.  It will keep you strong and moving forward.  It gives you purpose and a reason to prevail.  Don't let it eat you up, but know that you are justified in feeling the anger.  

My rants have had to be with friends, my journal, my therapist and now this site as he would not allow me the opportunity to rant at him.  You must let it out somewhere and ideally not where you daughter can be exposed.  My H has always made sure his children were around when he was around me as he knew I would not go off on him in front of them.  

Do not worry about protecting her.  I have told anyone willing to listen what my H did to me and he will have to live with the ramifications of that.  He once told me that he didn't want to be a pyryaha (sp?) in his own community.  Guess what?  The boat left the dock on that one and anyone who knows me thinks he is pond scum.  Oh well!  

I truly feel your pain.  I have been there and done that about 15 months ago and we're still haggling on the divorce.  I was not the one who wanted the divorce initially, but now that I know all the lies and things he hid from me, I certainly should have been.  

Hang in there, stay strong, surround yourself with good friends who support your decision, and continue to be the great dad you are.  Make your daughter proud of how you came through this and got your life moving in a positive direction.  None of this is fair to those of us who did the right thing, were always honest and trustworthy, only wanted to have a happy family and loved.  They didn't love us, at least not enough to sustain a good relationship.  They are not capable of that and probably never will be no matter who they choose for partners.  Those are the realities that make these decisions possible and necessary.

Brigid

[mum]

Longtire:  glad to hear you get pissed off, too.
You are having to do all this preparation FOR YOU, not for her.
She never lifted a finger.....she sure as heck won't now!
So go ahead and get mad, just keep on keeping on....this too, shall  pass.  You are doing this work for YOU and your daughter. NOT for her.

Anger is healthy, as long as you do something with it!  Hey, you already did!

[longtire]

Thanks, everyone, for your support.  Boy, I really needed to get all that out!  I feel cleansed, but exhausted.  Now that I let all that out, I feel more in touch with my anger and am aware of it being there most of the time around my wife and marriage.  Hopefully a good sign.

Like Brigid, I have never had a chance to express this anger or any other non-happy feeling and have my wife truly listen or have any connection with it.  Brigid, I'm sorry you're still stuck in the middle of your divorce.  That is one of the things I dread most.  Rest assured that I won't let my wife know that.  I plan to tell her that I'm in no rush and give her the impression that I'm the one who might drag it out if she doesn't cooperate.  She'll believe that I might do it because she would do it.

I think that I swung too far with the forgiveness process I've been working on.  I gave up anger along with the resentment and rage.  I don't mind getting rid of the resentment and rage, they were making me sick.  However holding in the anger and not feeling it was making me sick.  Now I have the anger to give me the energy to take action and take risks.  I'm going to need it.

[longtire]

Well, I hadn't seen more than about 10 seconds total of my wife this week, at least until last night.  Unfortunately, I ended up going to dinner with her tonight.  I only did that because we were going with my daughter, her friend, and our good friend.  I came back drained and jittery tonight, but with time, music, and a little typing am feeling better now.  I REALLY believe there's a lot to this Highly Sensitive Person stuff for me.  I was a lot more aware of overexposure coming on tonight and took the first opportunity to do something about it.

I got a call to help a friend move his parents into town from about 3-4 hours away.  Sounds good to me:  get a couple of free meals, get out of the house and out of town.  We left Friday night, after I dropped my car off at the shop to have some overdue work done.  The work will take several days to complete, should be ready eerly next week.  Anyway, we got to the house late Friday and loaded boxes for a while, then went to sleep.  Got up about 6AM and packed until dinner time, then drove back home.  He had another friend help him unload this morning.

So what's the problem?  I didn't tell my wife I was going, since I didn't see her last week.  Recently, she spends 1-2 hours at home before I get off work and otherwise, just sleeps here.

Last night she got back after I did and came in.  She saw me sitting there (no car in driveway) and said "Oh, you're home."  She puttered around for a while and then came and sat down to watch the show I was watching on TV.  I knew she was bursting to talk, but just waited and kept telling myself "it doesn't matter."  Finally, she said something along the lines of "I didn't know if you were coming back tonight."  I told her briefly about helping to move.  She said she didn't know if I was coming back (implication ever), and I replied that she hadn't been around at all to tell.  She said that she is simply excecising her right to have fun and be happy and that she wasn't happy at home.  <Insert guilt trip here>  Like I am.  I think I said something brilliant like "OK" at this point.  Despite expecting this kind of exchange and experienceing it for years, these surreal discussions still blow my mind.  There's never any direct discussion of the big issues with her, its always dancing around the truth.

This morning I was watching TV (maybe I should stop doing that?!?) she came up and started again.  She basically reasserted her right to have fun and be happy, and I didn't disagree with her.  Later she found me in another room, and told me that "I don't believe the same way you do, so I am telling you that I'm going to be gone next weekend."  I once again replied with an insightful "OK" and she left.  Something about that bothered me though, so I went and found her and told her something along the lines of "I wanted to make sure that you are not under a misconception, I'm not against letting you know where I go, you just have to be around to hear it."

Later, in the car on the way to dinner just her and I, she asked if we had agreed on a $ amount over which we need to discuss spending.  I replied that I didn't think we had one.  She was referencing the car repairs, which are high.  OUCH!  Basically this conversation ended as most do between us, with no real discussion and NO conclusions whatsoever.  I can really see that she's either trying to guilt trip me or start a fight with most of her comments and questions.  I keep telling myself that "it doesn't matter" and that really seems to help me to just let it go.

Anyway, I could have called her on her cellphone at any time and let her know what's going on.  But, I'm really tired of chasing after her in any sense.  Of course, she could have called me at any time on my cellphone as well.  I'm not exactly proud of what I did by not calling, but am even more tired of trying to be the "good one" and tracking my wife down to tell her day to day interaction things that wouldn't get a blink in a healthy relationship.

Any comments on this "interaction?"  Its out of character for me, but seems understandable given the distance between us right now.  No excuses or justification.   Has anyone experienced anything like this when they were distancing themselves from an abusive SO?  Its just different for me, and I'm trying to make sense of it.

[Anonymous]

longtire,

When a relationship is pretty much over, people stop doing the little things that show they care. That is how some people become aware that their marriage is on the rocks. Maybe, just maybe, your wife is getting a slight hint that you are losing interest in this marriage and it may be moribund. And it's no longer your job to cater to her feelings. It's over.

bunny

[onlyrenting1]

longtire,

There's never any direct discussion of the big issues with her, its always dancing around the truth.

my H trys to make any discussion like it's a joke or takes one part of what you say, makes light of it, now, no more to disscuss and fustrates the whole thing where you just walk away not talking about the important things.
He does this to both of us, its either a history lesson where you must listen to him, or what you need to say to him could not possibly be that important.

I'm really tired of chasing after her in any sense. Of course, she could have called me at any time on my cellphone as well. I'm not exactly proud of what I did by not calling, but am even more tired of trying to be the "good one

It's Painful, things are strained maybe decide if communication can be handled by other means,  send e-mail, leave a voice mail or call your D or letter writing, you may need this just for safety reasons.

For now you need your space anything Personal with your friends her friends you are breaking away and  finding your space where ever you can.
It's not even about being the one doing the right thing, you would like to call someone who cares, I'ts difficult when you know both are under pressure to let go.

longtire, we're both going through a very long marriage and the emotions are up and down. Sometimes the battle gets a bit much.  Just know you have a lot of supporters here and I watch your threads too, I have alot going on but when I get some more time I will get back with you again.
You are my Hero!!!  

onlyrenting

[longtire]

Wow, I realized this morning why these interaction feel wierd to me.  THEY ARE WIERD!  I'm aware now of what's going on while its going on.  It really helps to keep reminding myself that "it doesn't matter."  These "discussions" we have are unconnected and almost completely irrelevant to the "topic" of discussion.  I can really see how my wife uses the "subject" as a justification for talking about her same old issues and attacking to maintain distance between us.  She is always looking for "proof" that I am the bad person and the cause of all problems.  No wonder she always told me she hates talking with me!  I'm actually silly enough to think we're talking about what "we" are acting like we're talking about.  If I wanted to talk about something else, I would just talk about that instead.  "Oh, what wicked webs we weave..."

Its taking me longer than I thought to gather the paperwork.  Plus, I really want to check out those books from the Eddy Law website that mum recommended on the divorce thread.  The more I think about it, the more I expect my wife to "split" and I want to make sure that I am as prepared as possible, emotionally and legally/financially for when that happens.  I've waited this long, a few days won't kill me if I avoid my wife as much as possible during that time.    It was crystal clear to me last night what an energy vampire my wife is to me.  Its funny how much other people love to be around her, but of course she criticize anyone who doesn't just love her as having no personality or sense of humor.  She only hangs around with people who meet her needs for emotional propping up.

I joined the church I've been going to since the beginning of the year.  I'm starting to make friends there and feel like I belong.  Sort of a "chosen family."  Oddly enough, the people that I have told part of my story to react about the same as you do here in this forum!    They are supportive, understanding and caring.  In fact, its kind of funny, but my wife is the only one who has ever reacted to me this way.  Well, OK, there was the guy who accused me of being Narcissistic because I expressed my opinion and didn't always go along with what he wanted.  But, I don't really count him, since he was the N and ended up alienating everyone else around him too.

[longtire]

bunny, I wasn't sure what "moribund" really meant, so I looked it up:

Definitions of Moribund on the Web:

    Near death.

    Declining; in a dying state; on its last legs. Turkey is called a moribund state. Institutions on the decline are called moribund. Applied to institutions, commercial companies, states, etc. (Latin, moribundus, ready to die.)

    In a dying state. *<In the moribund patient deepening stupor and coma are the usual preludes to death B Norman Cameron>

    stagnant: not growing or changing; without force or vitality

    on the point of death; breathing your last; "a moribund patient"; "the expiring man was carried home by his two friends"

You are right on the money with this word!

[onlyrenting1]

longtire,

Preparation will be never ending. Hoping you are well organized to find all you need quickly. The other day I was sorting through things and it was like magic, I found some important papers but they we not what I was looking for. I don't have as much as you, but just the same get started, from what I have read on other threads, there will always be more.

My H wants to use the internet will write more later ..onlyrening

[bkkabri]

I read your posts on the last two pages and your feelings are mine exactly.  I wish I could write like you.  I have the same feelings about my parents and their lack of parenting to show you about a true relationship.  I feel your wrath about your wife saying its ok for her to be happy and not have any feelings(mine did the same thing).  I know mine is nowhere near yours and I dont pretend it to be.  I just wanted to let you know man to man that your feelings are justified and that your anger has touched me because I feel it too.  I am trying to find a therapist.  Iappreciate your posts.  It helps me understand what my future was going to be.  I pray that you and your daughter will have peace.

[Anonymous]

Longtire,

Just a few thoughts,
1. By my calculations you must only be in your mid thirties. You have an opportunity to free yourself from someone who will keep you miserable the rest of your life and find someone new and normal. Seize it. There are an awful lot of nice normal women looking for someone who sounds as patient, kind and loyal as you. And you still have plenty of time to start a new family, which if you are like me will become more important down the road.
2. I had parents who sound similar to yours. My dad was kind but weak. My mom, pretty darn cranky. Especially to my dad. Emotions were definitely verboten. But I met my stupendous wife and became a Christian within a few months of each other and my life was transformed. I am glad to hear you are growing closer to your folks.
3. My brother is my N. My father passed away about 10 years ago and my brother has destroyed my relationship with my blood relatives. However a marvelous thing was revealed. My friends in my church, who are my closest friends, have all been wonderful through everything with my brother. The lesson I learned was one that Jesus taught. In your case and mine we are being shown who our true family is. It is the people who love us unconditionally and put us first knowing we will do the same for them. That is the difference between the love of God and the "love" of this sick twisted world as evidenced in your wife.
4. The realization of how bad my brother is was like waking from a foggy dream. Everything was clear, including the course I had to take. Don't hesitate. Move. Take action to get your life on course. It is never too late. God is a God of second chances. He is giving you one now but you have to grab it. He's got something better for you.

God bless you.

[longtire]

Wow, thank you all for your support and encouragement.  To read things about me like "you're my hero" and "I wish I could write like you" really help.  I think I've been beating myself up for so long, I don't remember how to be kind to myself.  I think that I adopted the techniques of my wife and bullies from the past, but didn't want to fell guilty about bullying anyone else, so I turned it on myself.  Whoa!  That's  a revelation for me.

Its NOT OK to bully myself.  Its NOT OK to bully myself.  Its NOT OK to bully myself.

I think I'll keep repeating this one until it sticks!

I wrote a few more things down last night that I was feeling guilty about for doing to my wife.  (not dropping topics when she says she's not willing to discuss it, getting angry and yelling at her, etc.)  I don't think that will be a problem from now on.  Here is what I posted on the Divorce Suggestions thread a minute ago:

I choose not to be in a marriage with a woman who is unable to be intimate with me because she is too afraid.

How do you like this for an "I" statement that declares what I think about the situation? I just came from my therapy appointment, and my therapist helped me frame this up. He said something like "Marriage is a contract and you can't break that based on how you feel. You CAN break it based on what you think." In other words if you're reactive, angry, sad, etc. that is not sufficient reason to break it off. You need to work on your behavior and reactions in that situation. If you have looked at the situation and don't believe it meets your needs, then you have a right to break the contract.

This is what I've been looking for, a way for me to understand the situation without being "bad" and feeling guilty. I think that is why I have been bouncing back and forth so much recently. Its relatively easy to say you want to get divorced if its driven by anger. Its harder if you can see both sides and see the situation realistically. BTW, my therapist suggested adding the "because she is afraid" to the end to help keep from getting angry about it.

As for the separation idea, I don't believe it makes any sense in this situation. I was more curious if anyone had tried and whether it had any impact one way or another. Its sort of a moot point now...

Ahhhhh.....(sound of relaxing)

Guest, thanks for you support and encouragement.  Over the past few months and weeks I have been finding my true family.  I found them here and in church.  I found them in friends and even to an extent with my parents.  I agree that I have an opportunity, and I am moving to take it.  Sometimes that looks like me running into a brick wall.  Sometime I make big strides, like most days here recently.  I'm moving at the fastest pace I am comfrotable with.  Thank God, I am moving.

[josnnwllc]

Hello,

Your story is very sad.  You certainly gave it more than the old college try. We must all do what we think is best, and I do not want to presume too much, but sometimes a divorce is less painful for a child than a marital war.  It sounds as if your daughter is fairly grown-up now and would be capable of handling this should you decide to take that course.

Whatever you decide, do not doubt your reality. You may never receive from S any validation of what actually happened.

Be good to yourself. Take care, Jo

[longtire]

Thanks, Jo.  I don't expect to get any agreement on reality from my wife.  Ever.  I'm also confident that my daughter can come through this with help from me and others.

I am still having the hardest time letting go of this marriage, all reason to the contrary.  It's no longer stopping me from preparing for the nasty divorce that I expect from my wife, though.  I'm convinced that the problem for me isn't fear of the divorce or of being alone.  These seem like a pleasant relief compared to where I am and where I have been.

When I gave my committment to stay together until "death do us part," I meant it.  That is the hardest thing for me to give myself permission to break.  I'm working away at it a bit each day.  The image I have is that I'm cutting all the elastic bands that have been holding us together.  Each time I do, one end snaps back and hits me, causing pain.  As much as I want them all cut, I need to pace myself to keep the pain manageable.  I've already cut many of them and can breathe and even move around some.

Wow, I just realized that I honestly don't think that I can continue to survive in the environment my wife creates.  It isn't physical abuse going on.  This is more subtle, but it affects me more.  With physical abuse, it would be clear to me to leave to protect myself.  With the verbal and emotional abuse and the mixed messages of hearing one thing and seeing another, its confusing.  No wonder I feel confused and torn about this.  Her method of "communication" is to create confusion to avoid awareness.  That goes straight to my sensitivity and my desire to create order out of chaos and drives me nuts.  My stress level goes through the roof.  I could probably tolerate it for short periods of time if I already had a safe, stable, rational home, but why would I choose to?  Why would I allow myself to be exposed to that when I have that stable home?  I will minimize my exposure to this to what only I have to tolerate to co-parent my daughter.  Snap!

Am I really married to S?  Or am I married to the disease she has?  If it was the disease that I said "I do" how would that have any validity?  It doesn't have any validity.  Snap!

She hasn't lived up to her committment to "Love, Honor, and Obey" and is unwilling to discuss doing so, and I have done my best to live up to my vows and am willing to work on it.  Would I consider keeping any other contract where the other party has defaulted?  I won't do that anymore.  Snap!

I see myself as being here to help her (co-dependency alert!).  She has repeatedly stated that she does not want any help from me.  Besides, I believe only a professional therapist can give her the help she needs.  I can't help her.  Snap!

I've stayed because at times, I've convinced myself that things are improving, despite all evidence to the contrary.  Things have only ever gotten worse with her over time, not better.  I won't stay with her or anyone else like this without a valid recovery plan from her having concrete promises.  It will NEVER happen!  Snap!

S is unable to see the good in me.  Why should she, she doesn't need to.  I keep coming back and letting her use me anyway she wants and take anything she wants.  If she can't see the good in me, she doesn't see me.  She has no caring feelings for me unless I am actively meeting her needs in some way.  This is a one-way "relationship" which is not valid.  Her manipulation of me, using my caring against me, is counter to the point of marriage or any caring relationship.  Snap!

S has not supported me in doing things that are directly beneficial to her, like saving money and working together to raise our daughter.  She has not supported me in things which would be good for me, like hobbies and having my own friends.  In fact, she has aggressively and actively opposed me in these and many other positive things.  I will not listen to her opinions any longer.  Snap!

When I share my inimate feelings and thoughts with her, she uses them to attack me later.  She often twists and shares them with others to show how "bad" I am to make herself feel superior or one up on me.  She has to be one up one me because she will not lower herself to be equal with me.  Snap!  Snap!  Snap!

Not bad work for today if I say so myself.