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Heist on Something....

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sKePTiKal:
EEK.

This was probably an "in the moment" thing... I wouldn't take it seriously. Even though it feels pretty good. There's a lot more "getting to know you" that needs to happen and trust to be built, before that phrase has real meaning.

Hopalong:
I agree.
Strange as it is, I am the realistic one.
He is engineering and building a romance...lovely but perilous.

It's not that he's not feeling real feels, or that he's insincere. It's that imo, he's showing how different our experiences have been. He's got the first comes love youthful kind of fantasy approach... kind of the way I had when I was young. It's sweet to be around but perilous if we don't stay rooted in the real. I've got to also respect that the man makes commitments, however. He stayed loyally in a 40 year marriage with someone who had a couple major problems. I don't know how long they courted but somehow, this get-swept-away is in his wheelhouse.

Romantic, but I don't fully trust western romantic love any more. Time and behavior will tell if he's in magical thinking always, or just now.

Not entirely in my wheelhouse, so even if we might wind up with the big M, it wouldn't be until I've been dragging the steamboat backward down the river for as many miles (and months) I need to.

I'm glad you guys are kicking along too. I won't forget I can get off the river any time I spot bad rapids....

xxoo
Hops

lighter:
Hops:

I remember things you post about..... they're familiar in some of my own stories.  The unwanted stomping into my physical space followed by his being good enough long enough....but then.....he switched from physical boundaries to emotional ones....the"I love you" all up in the mental space. 


Well.....

WTH?

You ask for space and he steps back, circles around and steps back in....all close up and faaaaaaast again. . It's not true space, is it?  It's more infringement, mascarading as less, IME.

I'm back to asking....is it protective leaning ng in to reciprocal care, or.....
something else?

Tupp brings up his tidy controlling/controlled personality, and your relaxed style.  Whoo boy..... Been there, done that.  Maybe I could have handled things better, but my drive to please.....
it drove me to my knees, though I blamed the man.... The blame was mine.  Later I realized I knew it intuitively, before it came to pass.  Huge lessons learned well.  I should have cared more about myself,and less about him.  I gave myself away and depended on his approval, rather than my own.

Later, my beautiful B would be a healing, giving spirit, teaching different lessons.  Learning to receive was harder than I thought it would be.  After B was dx'd with cancer, and died 5 months later....the week we planned to marry, I accepted I'dlost the love of my life.  I didn't expect to find that kind of love again. 

I consciously dropped my standards, bc..... I figured it was necessary.  Someone like B seemed an impossible ask.  I'm not greedy.  I had one true love.  It could be enough.  Right?

The trouble with lowering one's expectations....standards.....
in my experience, it's a slippery slope.  I slipped all the way back to my default status of pleaser, bc .....the personal dynamics involved  were tougher than I was.....and I started out Uber tough.  I slipped into keeper of peace mode, eggshell walker, eyes closed, screaming in my own head to avoid acceptance of what I'd done to myself and 2 little children.  I was dependent on a certain outcome....a safe, protected outcome.  I was willing to put up with a lot to keep the illusion alive.  At least till our children were old enough to protect themselves.

So, here you are....a benevolent, giving spirit practicing boundaries, and holding your ground.  Your B is privileged, has always belonged to that group, and has pressed one boundary while relaxing another, to my eye, at least.

I recognize moving too fast.  The breathless flush of feeling adored......for better, and worse.  It's a giddy, amazing thing..... intoxicating.

:: nodding::

Part of me wants you to just HAVE that.  Experience it.  Make it yours, if only for a short while.  Roll around in it taking big bites as you go.

Part of me wants you to make sure he wants the best for you, before giving him the best of you.  His saying he loves you doesn't give him any rights.....
 You said you wanted to move slowly....
he's actually moving faster, and....

wTH?

With that said, please remember I regretted moving so slowly with my beautiful B.  Had I known who he was, it would have been easier to move more quickly, but getting to know someone takes time.  No getting around it, and my B insisted we move slowly once he understood why.   We pays our monies,and we takes our chances, as the saying goes.  You may have regrets, and that will have to be ok too.  You shouldn't freeze up with dread and doubt.  Assess, Accept and Act.....AAA's of life and making informed choices, right there.

I sense you're tempted to be swept up in these moments.....maybe....a bit?

Be that the case, be swept without reservation....
wholly, and with great joy, but with eyes wide. 

Faint heart never won fair maiden.... So true.  Maybe B's heart is fierce, and good, and wants to help you be good, kind, benevolent in this world, in all the ways you require.  In ways he's not particularly driven to be himself.

My B was that, and so much more.  He gave $15k to charitable causes yearly as required by every partner at his firm.  He only said it once, and there was no resentment or regret....no desire for admiration for it either.   There was a grace about him, and doing for others.  He never would have diminished me.  He didn't ever say that.  His actions said it all.

The one man who said it out loud was lying to me, laying traps, planning ahead to crush me.  I don't want to trust words as a consequence.  I want to trust what I see with my own eyes. 

Remember there can be degrees of giving the best of yourself.  It doesn't have to be completely, and irreversibly. 

It can be gifted with abandon.... but,
 perhaps,
without expectation and blinding need for this to BE something in particular.

Maybe expectation and desire is the part that hurts when things go sideways.  If we're open to what comes next, come what may, we're less likely to fool ourselves when we need clarity and power to discern the most.

This man will tell you who he is..... eventually. 

When he does you're going to believe him, and you'll be ok no matter how it goes.

:: nodding::.

Enjoy this jellymoon stage, but I encourage consistent focus on yourself, and your separate life. 

Men like women who have other things, anything, going on.  You deserve your own life, and sense of importance.  If you don't value yourself, why should anyone else?  If B cares about you, he'll be patient.... he'll make sure you're ok too.

Lighter















Twoapenny:

--- Quote from: Hopalong on January 01, 2018, 04:26:01 PM ---Not to worry, (((((Tupp))))), I am very grateful for your support in my foot staying firmly on the brakes. That's my intent, and though I'm very affected by his declaration I'm wary of its speed for exactly the reasons you cite. I do think he was a little indirect about my reaction to the "jokes" but in person, didn't sense anything uber-ugly bubbling (largely because of his story about the muslim man). Just a blind spot of privilege and context. (He's from the Detroit area and that may have contributed to some cynicism about that "Detroit bumper sticker" image, not that it excuses it.) I have to measure it against what I've seen in person, so far. It's troubling, gives me serious pause, and I'm not done wanting to get a more clear view of what that's about....but it's not full dive, dive! siren yet. Partly because he's respectful and hears me when I challenge him on stuff. Every time, so far.

One thing about character. He was trying to give me a compliment by comparing me to another woman my age (less "attractive" with less exuberant personality kinds of things). I expressed discomfort. He pays attention. He asked, why doesn't this feel like a good compliment to you? I said, it's nice to be valued but I don't feel good inside if I'm being complimented at the expense of another woman. What I told you about how deep my solidarity with women is, because of sexism...that is real. He responded by heartfeltly saying that I am a very good person.

He notices it when I express compassion and he moves closer when I do. My hope is that a superficial right-leaning circle he is in online doesn't have an iron grip on his soul. Hops dunno yet.

He blurted the love declaration after a moving scene in the Churchill movie that we both had the same goose-bump reaction to. It was spontaneous. I sent him a warm email later that I am keeping my foot on the brake because while very moved by what he's offering, I also want to be thoughtful all the way through.

It's pretty amazing and typically Tupp-astute that you used the term "roller coaster." This morning he wrote back: "I think I've been on a bit of an emotional roller coaster, since we met and I seem to over react to positives and negatives in our path.  Your emails often give me a sense of stability and reason."

Anyhow, your motherly warnings and cautions are extremely welcome. I know there's a risk at my age, and after years of loneliness, of flinging caution to the winds. But I won't. If anything I might risk missing out because I let my caution lead too much. Somewhere in the middle, I hope the right knowing will become clear. He IS always a couple steps ahead and urging things forward. That is his issue, his difficulty in containing his impulses while he's swamped with a panicky loneliness.

It's not that he's insincere, I truly feel. Just that he is indeed on a widower's roller coaster and way quicker than I am to think fusing with another woman (me) asap is automatically the right solution. Then again, I've heard many stories about people later in life who waste little time once they think they've found someone. I think the aging, sense of imminent mortality, has something to do with his speed also.

[adding] Forgot to answer your intriguing questions:

--- Quote ---Are you comfortable with him seeing your untidy house yet?...
Funny you asked that. Made an intentional decision to not tidy the kitchen, leave an open unloaded dishwasher as it was plus some dirty dishes on counter. Felt fine. He didn't appear to notice (and I didn't care).

Are you happy for him to be there when you have a staying in bed, I want to read on my own day?
Not yet. I'm super protective of my time to myself and privacy. As long as he's pushing the river I'm inclined to stay on the cozy bank by myself. But that could change in time...

Did he tell you he loved you before or after you brought up the jokes?
Before. You said something about this timing being revealing. Can I ask what you meant? Wasn't sure I followed.
--- End quote ---

Thank you so much for being alongside me as I navigate this stuff. You VESMB Amazons are my sisters in the sky and I could not be more grateful. (One expects high-schoolers to have patience for all these he-said, I-said and then he-did, I-did breathless romantic blow by blows....but I know how lucky I am to have grownup VESMB sisters willing to tolerate it too!)

love,
Hops

--- End quote ---

Hops, I know you are a wise lady and that you won't be swept along and throw all caution to the wind.  Equally I understand how much we doubt ourselves and how often we wonder whether we are being too cautious/damaged/seeing things that aren't really there.  I get completely how it's easier to move fast when you're older - partly because you know what you want and partly because there just isn't that need to play games, play the field, wait and see if someone better comes along.  I guess that you and B are at different places on that front - you would rather have a partner but financially, emotionally, physically, you are ready to do this on your own.  I don't think B is in that place.  So I think you are right to put the brakes on and keep them there.

With regards to timing (when he told you that he loved you) what I had in my head was whether he'd declared it as a balm to take your mind off something he'd done that displeased you (the jokes) - so if he'd said it after you'd told him you weren't happy about the jokes did he say it to make up for doing something 'wrong' (in a more extreme version the way a physically abusive partner buys flowers and chocolates after they've beaten their partner up - the sugar to follow the medicine, as it were).  So the fact that he said it before has crossed that concern from my list :)

I guess the thing that is niggling at me are the (seemingly) frequent, quietly derogative references to women - the ugly waitress, the Weinstein jokes, the comparison of you with someone else.  I know you have said that he was married for forty years - but that doesn't mean happily or that the relationship was healthy.  It would concern me that, underlying the charm and the good times is a less than charming opinion of women in general.  Just something to keep an eye on, I guess.  Anyway, as always, keep us posted! :) xx

sKePTiKal:
aaaannnnnnnnddddddd.....

Lighter just knocked it out of the park, Hops. Read that 3 times. I'm going to.

  8)



--- Quote ---Remember there can be degrees of giving the best of yourself.  It doesn't have to be completely, and irreversibly. 

It can be gifted with abandon.... but,
 perhaps,
without expectation and blinding need for this to BE something in particular.

Maybe expectation and desire is the part that hurts when things go sideways.  If we're open to what comes next, come what may, we're less likely to fool ourselves when we need clarity and power to discern the most.
--- End quote ---


B I N G O.

I think all of us humans have a tendency to do this. Probably not something we can "fix" or "improve the original design" or ever stop doing... but if we're aware of it and can be honest with ourselves (or let our friends be, when we can't) we can avoid most of the fearful things we see as "risk".

Lighter - that's so clear and spot-on I'm sharing it with Holly. She needs to hear it too.

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