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Heist on Something....

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Hopalong:
You guys are SO spot on.

Tupp, it does get tiring (and when I'm looking for an excuse to bolt, being in charge of the brakes is a very appealing one). But read on for better news....

Amber, yessss. (Hellloooo, dear B, I Have a Life). Good to ponder how you understood that Mike's history (oops, wrong wife) naturally (and not maliciously) bled into life with you. And so impressive and helpful to see how you took it. Not personally. Not with grievance. (He was so lucky in you. You know how to love.)

The good news: We just had a marathon phone call to unpack and work through this tension about his invite for the seven days, and not the long weekend agreed to. It was remarkable (for me, given my history). He had an offer for the place and the date had changed but there was a whole history of family timeshare and scheduling and stuff, and he hadn't meant it as a demand (though yes, he did want it), but it was now the only date available. He may have preferred we swoonily go for it but DID accept me saying, nope. I wanna long weekend first.

Lighter, I calmly stuck to my boundary about it and he wound up telling me that in spite of his grim-reaper fears, etc., he is likely to live a long time (genetically) and he actually knows I'm right. (To take it slowly and build layer by layer.)

It was probably the longest conversation we've had so far and it was really good. We shared truthful stories (him about his wife and their memories) and me about a baaaaaaad experience of a premature-week-at-the-beach I'd had years ago.

I came away from it grateful that I have today off (so I could devote that much time to listening and talking with him) and also...glad he got the flu so a long phone chat was all we could do.

It was surprisingly great. We got to the point of talking about sex and rapacious Neanderthals. Even got into cultural stuff, such as old Bill Cosby hysterical routines with so much imaginative empathy for adolescent male sexuality...and the irony of how he missed empathy for half the species.

The upshot is that I felt much much closer to him, and happy when we hung up.

He said he'd had two realizations about me:
--I'm much much smarter than he'd assumed (I know...yarrggghhh, alert the media, smart woman)
--I'm a lot tougher emotionally than he'd realized (I said "Tough love" and he said, "I know. I don't always like it but I know it's good.")

I'm rather stunned but it turned out that this first "fight" (translate: email weirdness including incorrect assumptions on both sides) brought us closer. A lot. He really does listen and "work" to communicate through. That's a new experience for me.

love and mush,
Hops

Twoapenny:
Aw, Hops, that does all sound good.  Yes, the talking is the key, isn't it, and like you say, good in a way that he has the flu so on the phone is the only way it can be done!  Often easier than face to face.  And yes, he's realised you're smart :)  And this, I think, can be a problem that many experience (and kind of goes back to something I said a few posts back about how conditioned both sexes are to focus on appearance) - I do think a lot of guys have been so conditioned socially to think that getting a woman boils down to telling her she's pretty, paying for a nice dinner and wearing clean shoes that some are genuinely surprised to find one that thinks and speaks as well :)  Lol.  I'm glad you've had a good talk and yes, it is all getting to know you stuff.  I'm glad the talk was a good one :) xx

lighter:
Gee Hops.... that conversation sounded..... really productive.  I'm glad.

What I noticed about it, aside from the fact that it seemed to go rather well, is your relief it was over the phone.  I keep waiting for him to be good enough, long enough, that you long for his company.

 If he could just stand down, and create space.... just let the space BE without taking it all up... you'd be able to close that distance yourself, in your own time, and way.  I know I say this and say it, but it's what I SEE when I look at your situation.  It's what I want you to have.  I want you to have everything you want, and be very comfortable in that space. 

You're still able to hope for an equal relationship with a man who may treat you like a human being.  He may very well be the kindest, most helpful, loving man who does too much on this earth.  He may appreciate your heart, body and soul.... figure out how wonderful it can be to have someone like you sharing his journey.  I keep hoping. 

I know this, once you start making excuses it's a very slippery slope to being miserable. 
IME, of course.

Don't make any excuses for him.   Remain calm, and expect to be treated as well as you treat him.  Nothing to get upset about, just a discussion here and there, right?

I do wish he'd just give you space so you could feel you're in your wheelhouse.  I really want that for you.

Lighter

sKePTiKal:
Hey Lighter... he can't give that to Hops; she has to claim it on her own. Then, it becomes part of the foundation of and for the relationship to bloom when he says - oh, OK - and doesn't resent it.

I've been watching Holly & Matt navigate some things together. Holly realized awhile ago that she gave up a boundary with him, over what is really HER space. She's been trying to find a way to reclaim it without automatically pushing his defensiveness button. Meanwhile, he's also asking for some things too. I talk to BOTH of them pretty openly.

One thing that I think has just become a big symbol of how things are changing is the birthday party and how Matt & I conspired with some ideas... and just how much work Matt did to make it happen. He was the anchor keeping the preps, the food production, and people's well-being tethered in having a great time. That was huge gift of the kind of thing she truly appreciates.

Other big things going on with them too. So a work in progress and she's learning to kind of go with the flow for a bit.

Hopalong:
You guys are amazing.
Thanks, Tupp for the cheer, it is really good to hear that you heard the happy note.

Lighter, you're totally right about how critical it is that he learn to let me breathe. Respect the space I require in order to relax and expand. Become very comfortable with having requirements.

But to Amber's point, her opening is exactly what my T told me today. I speak up, I require what I require and learn to matter-of-factly say: Yes, no, that works for me, or that won't work for me. Iow, I have to give (and re-give) myself permission to be consistently and comfortably assertive. Rather than hope he donates it.

Then, there's no real threat (even though I've done such a great imitation of a panicking, dissolving ice cube lately). T is always trying to model matter-of-fact adult couple communication for me. Today, with talk with B, I realized...maybe I can do this better than I thought I could.

I still have some fear. I think I'd have it with any man until time and testing show me I'm truly in a safe place. But, B and I together went a long way today. A big piece for me was sticking to my guns about our trip plan (despite his disappointment), listening a lot to his memories and associations with the place (not my cuppa tea but it won't kill me to go there with him sometime), respecting them, and still for this particular decision, detangling that (his past) from our present (planning instead the short trip we'd agreed to as a first step). He accepted it without resentment, but it had helped so much that I'd talked it over with T this morning. (It was he who suggested, ask him what Hilton Head is about for him, listen to his story...). T said, the point is the process, it's the process of communication that matters most. Finding out if you can do that together well.

Still dunno about long-term but this was an encouraging step. I think it's the first time I've sensed that we really might be able to build something based on respect and commitment to working through conflict. Lord knows it's only one test but it was heartening to feel that we passed it.

My job is to work on the fear, so I don't remain so scared of enmeshment and/or conflict that I slip into yielding too much (though compromise matters) or going rigid. And I do think we have a loooooong way to go and many differences and preferences to sort out. It's a huge prospect but if we find we can enjoy it maybe it'll work.

Next on my own agenda is sharing with him some fears I have about what personality issues might be like for us if we settled into a long-term situation. Maybe I can just tell him: I worry about the mix of a poet with ADD who tends to NOT be tidy or on point a lot, and an engineer who thinks in spreadsheets (his personality was actually a business strength...a partner told him B drove him crazy with his methodical planning and always looking a year out, but said "Because you do that, I know it's why our company succeeded.")

I guess we'll have to talk about how a relationship is and is not like a company. Not my favorite metaphor, ugh. Maybe I can ask him to think of me as the loopy creative graphics person in the marketing department...? And how trying to "manage" me (which I think might be a reflex) won't work. I mean, vigorously won't work. I hope he'll get it.

Early days. Concern remain but less fear. More hope. Hoping I remain rational while maybe opening a little bit more to romance.

love
Hops

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