Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Heist on Something....
lighter:
Not annoying, Hops.
Just interested in how T works out. You'll have more information.
Useful any way it goes; )
Lighter
lighter:
OK... I'm having a thought here.
Remember I posted about my mother, and my step father's relationship?
They started out with him being pretty much in charge, with her doing most of the heavy lifting. That eventually shifted, and he had his hands full of my mother standing her ground, hands on hips....
and he absolutely adored her for it.
Now, he didn't understand that at first. He didn't adore it either. It came to be what he loved about her, as much as everything else that drew them together. They'd spat like children, and then be just fine afterwards.
The important thing was... they got everything OUT, and over with. No grudges, or ill feelings when they went to bed, kwim?
The other important thing was they cared about each other as much as they cared about themselves. There was mutual respect, and it lasted heir entire 30 year marriage.
Mom always said husband #2 was "trainable."
In her opinion.... that was very important.
Something to think about.
Lighter
sKePTiKal:
Lighter, that sounds like my cliche joke... that dogs are easier to housebreak than men. LOL.
We all look for different things from relationships. One thing my long grieving process has revealed, is that what I LONG for most, in my lonliest and self-pityingest moments is the companionship and intimate connection with someone who cares about me. It's not a guy's superior upper body strength (LOL), romance or sex, or even the interests in common (although that's a functionally useful thing)...
it's knowing I can stand-down, completely collapse into a fetal ball of total dependency... still be cared for (without being picky about HOW)... for however long it takes for me to regain my equilibrium... and then be turned loose to do my independent, bull-headed "thing" again. Mike used to say: I don't know what to do; what do I say? But he intuitively knew that just holding me until it passed was exactly the right thing to do. Or the little things... like the silly bunny hat (that of course I still have!)
It's a real scary thing for a lot of guys who like the challenge of a "strong-willed, difficult woman"... to see us collapse. But it's like the seawall description... we have to let the forces hitting us flow right on through... bend, instead of break. Sometimes that requires we are protected and cared for during those times.
Hopalong:
These are SUCH good things to think about, right now. Thanks, both of you.
I am so fearful of anger (feel poisoned within minutes) that even a "spat" like children leaves me sickened for days. I don't think that's healthy of me, but it's long-term true. Probably a leftover from early experiences of being bullied.
I hope to get clarity on whether and how much change may be possible for B. (Much less me.) I sense his wiring is indeed HARD wired. But I've been impressed in the past by the intensity of his efforts to listen and then do something differently. Somehow this time when I hit Eject I let go of that faith. Partly because I was newly raw over my D, and his tone deaf reactions around that time made me feel abandoned with deep pain. And partly because I would not want to have to BE in conflict for him to notice, get it, and self-regulate. Because that would mean pain and confrontation, followed by B catching up, repeat.
I hope he's SELF-trainable because I truly don't have the emotional strength to do that. He compared me to a therapist in our recent talk and I instantly said, I don't want to be your therapist. (It's exhausting and because of how he processes things, very laborious. I want to write my novel.)
I did imagine what it'd be like to try to draw a better boundary around his OCD stuff, his elaborate and over-detailed planning for very minor things. Like, on Saturday he wanted to talk about how we could go to X to eat after the therapy appt. on Tuesday. Not a crime of course but for some irrational reason I recoil. He's always three steps ahead, has an intense need for an agenda and itinerary for every time together. ESPECAILLY about food. It's suffocating. I'd rather finish the appt, check in on what we each feel up to, and decide then.
Anyway, if he could understand how draining his compulsive detailed planning is for me, and if we could agree that he doesn't need to involve me in processing all of that together, we'd be better off. He mentioned that he has a hard time with no specific plans. I told him I'd like sometimes to just say come on over around 4 Saturday, we can just hang out, mess in the yard, watch something, eat out or in. Let's just decide then. That is excruciating for him, evidently. But my ADD brain needs to wander free at times, especially on days off, and that's my own hard wiring.
I bring unhelpful stuff to our issues as well. Just more differences between us. But I'm beginning to look forward to the conversation with a good couples T.
One silly bit of "evidence" I'll be mentioning is that even though I was very happy in general about building a relationship with B, one fact is that I've GAINED weight since meeting him. That's not my usual MO if I'm happily attracted. And to me it seems clear it's been stress eating.
More soon, gotta head for Ngent, bless his also-obsessive heart. We have to talk for 40 minutes about his decision to allow me to purchase a new set of Twin sheets for him, as the old set doesn't fit his mattress and is a pain to make.
love
Hops
lighter:
Hops:
My mother was an obsessive planner.... and she'd do it waaaaay ahead..... that was her MO. Always.
Then, when it was time for the plan to execute I was always caught off guard.... flat footed, bc I had little kids, or other plans, or was sick, or didn;t remember and would rather DO something else... sometimes very much resented getting herded all the darned time without getting to think about what I'd actually like... what would make me FEEL OK...... and you're right... sometimes we can't know till we're at the point of making plans. The fact I was a people pleaser didn't help my cause. My needs were never considered...... what I wanted wasn't factored in. When I spoke, I had no voice. Perhaps you have some memory of that, and it's still very present in your head? I think it certainly was for me.... likely still is.
Planning ahead works out some of the time, but not all of the time, and we're circling back to more balance, I think. There has to be some comfort for everyone. God only knows we can't make Sunday brunch plans around a holiday the day before. Some things absolutely require planning. I get that, but my brain resists... squirms..... resents the planner's efforts. I realize I have little rituals around planning things.... things I DO in order to get in the right frame of mind.... details in other areas of my life that make me FEEEEEL OK..... make it possible to focus on whatever that plan IS. I have to ask for the space, and time to find and complete those things. It's not something I can put into words, so I ask for space, and silence.... for time. I don't really feel a need to explain it beyond that, frankly.
In the end.... I've become better at planning, and trained the remaining planners in my life a bit.... just my being more proactive makes them less compulsive, IME.
And I agree with your not wanting to be a T in your relationship. In a past relationship I was told I needed to manage my partner..... keep him in line.... stand up to him.....tell him when he was out of line..... it was never going to happen, bc I feel the way you do. I'm allergic to conflict, and that will never be the kind of person I can BE with. Ever.
In that relationship my partner was angry at my silences. Super angry at my honesty.... I was in a double bind, without solutions. After I ended the relationship he admitted he was at fault, asked if I could help him, but it was too late, and I wasn't interested in figuring him out any longer.... certainly not interested in fixing him.... was quite certain I could not, and the interest evaporated after 2 years of being blamed, criticized, and eventually emotionally terrorized. My part in that was allowing the first transgression to go by without stating a boundary, and consequence...... following through if I saw a whisp of the same behavior. I should have ended that relationship the first time he went a bit bizzerko.... instead I shut down, with him eventually bringing up my silence. It was strange TO HIM. People who can stand their ground, draw a boundary, state a consequence without adrenal fatigue are lucky, IMO. I'd like to be more like that, BUT for the times I was punished for my honesty, and now have brain pathways that fear being punished/and terrorized for my honesty.
I'm not sure how my mother's marriage went with all that healthy hashing out. Obviously she had a much higher tolerance for conflict, and truthfully.... I do believe it was healthy to have discussions without shattering or having to rock over a disagreement. I've stood my ground, and been assertive.... made huge statemements about myself that could be considered a challenge on a date, and not felt a blip of anxiety around it. IT'S WHEN THERE'S A CONNECTION... when I'm attached to someone and they OUT OF THE BLUE go nutso on me that I start floundering. That I have trouble stating a boundary. Enforcing a consequence. I'm good at walking away WHEN I CAN WALK AWAY, and have done it many times. It's when there's a contract.... when there's children... when there's emotional or physical violence that I come out of my skin, and fall apart. When someone has been good enough, long enough that I freeze, and become confused, opposed to calling it what it is, and going about my business. Attachment is the fulcrum, IMO. My expectations..... learning how to adjust them, and not go into denial. Honestly, I think I've swung too far past that. I think my expectations are so low now that I can't imagine allowing anyone in.... really. It signals risk, and danger, and that's not healthy either Hops. For you or for me.
I'd like more for both of us.
I'm too sensitive to conflict..... but that doesn't mean I have to invite conflict into my life, or learn to live with conflict on a regular basis. Back to balance, managing expectations, and inviting people into my life who can have discussions without angry outbursts.... I just think that's an absolute deal breaker for me.
I would like to just deal with normal stuff without emotional escalation into unhealthy territory when disagreements come up. I'm great at honest discussion..... I have to say that. Not so great at handling other people's inappropriate outbursts. I must come up with automatic responses...... walk away.... state boundaries around their outburst, and agree to come back later when they can be appropriate. That should be something I train into my reptilian brain.
I think I'm a very courteous person.... even when I hear things that make me angry.... I try to be respectful, and I try to be. I want the same courtesy.... I suppose I should demand it.
::eek::
Demand.
::sigh::
I've just finished dealing with customs people.... they don't take Discover, and the charge on my credit card didn't go through.. that was the reason for their calls. All that freaking out, and everything seems to be OK. I built it up in my mind... assumed my card was declined bc they SAID it was.... why do I DO that?
The tendency to catastrophize is a THING for me. Maybe it is for you too, Hops.
I don't know how to circumvent it, outside asking myself if this THING is the truth. I can't know it's the truth until I get to the bottom of it so I shouldn't assume the worst.
New brain pathways are a very difficult thing to put in place. It's very difficult, but well worth the time, IME.
I hope this long ramble is helpful, Hops.
It's helped me: )
Lighter
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version