Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Heist on Something....
Hopalong:
Thanks, y'all!
I'm amazed to report that it's going really well. He met two sets of friends this week and they all liked him a lot. Good impression all around. He really enjoyed it and it felt good to be out together. He'll introduce me to someone (I told him it's his turn) but he's only been living here two 1/2 years, and much of the first year was the illness and death of his wife. So he's befriended a few neighbors. His daughter lives here but he hasn't mentioned that meet yet and I appreciate that. He should hold off.
I did make that statement to him about truly appreciating the fact that he's willing to be patient with me about intimacy and it seemed fine. He said the night he seemed withdrawn he was feeling the need for more touch and closeness. I told him to just ask for a hug and explained (in a gentle way) that he needs to not have me read his mind, but speak. He did, and I've been hugging, doing back scratches and the passing shoulder rub and he talks about it making him happy. I was at his place this evening and he went to shower before we went to my friends'. He made an odd comment but I understood he meant it positively "I feel so comfortable with you that it occurred to me I could have just walked out here in my underwear...." So I said, shades of Harvey Weinstein!
I guess he can't help being a little one-track about this, but he's not physically pressuring me. He's a little bit controlling but so far I'm not feeling it's a threatening thing--more mildly neurotic/codependent. I'm pretty comfortable speaking up so far.
When he kissed me good night I informed him that his mustache feels like little redwood logs that have been trimmed with a chainsaw, and that cracked him up.
We're not having heavy talks about relationship or future right now and I'm glad, that was an intense way to start out (but normal at our ages, likely). We seem to have moved forward into real relationship, and it's only been two months. I'd like to just enjoy him and seek out new experiences with him for a time.
He's got some health issues I wasn't fully aware of so there may be some limits, but that's okay.
He expressed bewilderment when I said I was tired (concern really) but I felt defensive about it. (My problem to fix.) I am not retired yet and I don't think he gets how tiring my work can be with the old folks, even though it's PT. And though I didn't say so, it's quite an effort to work a new person into my life, even though I'm happy I am.
Right now it's feeling good and we're doing well. He has some fussiness that could make me roll my eyes if I were rude, but overall he's sweet and easy to be around. I tend to run fast, mentally, and he's sloooooooow. He'll tell a story in 30 minutes that would take me 10, but difference is part of the appeal. He may calm me down.
All in all, a good week and unexpectedly positive! (I'll keep crunching away at various fears and worries with you guys, and I know it'll be okay.)
lots of love and thanks,
Hops
Hopalong:
Lighter, did I blow past your telling me not to judge myself by HIS standards?
I just re-read my post and think I'm being awfully, awfully accomodating. Still like him, still continuing...
But in honesty his comment about feeling so comfortable he thought he could walk out in his underwear DID make me uncomfortable. Not fearful. Just...why did you have to say that, why do you fixate on that?
Hmmm. It was just weird. He didn't push anything but there's something there. I am hopeful, honestly, that this is not a dark problem. Just something out of sync.
Guess I'll find out in time....
Hops
sKePTiKal:
That was me, Hops, with the standards comment.
The underwear comment I understand completely; he's truly sharing that realization he had that HE wouldn't feel awkward about it in the context of how he's seeing the relationship. No more; no less. And it was supposed to be funny. Is he comfortable telling jokes? If not, it might explain what felt "off" about it. (You said he was an engineer - IME, a lot of guys in that field have some aspie personality characteristics, even if they're NOT aspies. I'm horrible at telling jokes.)
Some guys are terribly self-conscious about their bodies - just like we are - especially at this age. But it's an assumption to think he was fixating on it. A little mind-reading; that reflex of always looking for ulterior motive in everything maybe?
And then, there is your reaction to the incident/statement. Two separate things. Advice: if you're going to look at things in this kind of close-up detail... you've got to keep things very well sorted/separated. That helped me sort out the Ronnie issue... and where I was reading way too much into his words... and then let myself weave a whole story out of that in my mind... which engaged the feelings I didn't realize were there... and well, I was off to the races. LOL.
lighter:
Hops:
Reading your post did seem chucked full of accommodation on your part. I recognize it as something I've done....my comfort zone for sure. I have to say that I was working hard to remedy it in my late 30's, while considering the man I had children with, and did very well for 5 months. Once we became intimate/engaged at that point, I lost my bearings. It was unfamiliar territory. Giving in to Controllers is easier for those who aren't interested in controlling, IME. We can mistake fluid boundaries for identity as caring, giving, devoted wonderful helpmate peacekeeper spirit. And the controller keeps asking for things, insisting things will be fine IF we'd just ( insert the never ending list of things we must do or change,IME of course.)
Why do we take on eventual sole responsibility for keeping things ok.....so many reasons, but just NO.
Once we begin making excuses and menuevering around the truth to create OKness in relationship..... we're lost, IME.
I'm saying that you are as important as this man, and standing your ground, stating your wishes, and requiring comfort in relationship, for yourself, is a priority you can make clear, and train him I to, even if he's not familiar or practiced at it.
Equals, not you mothering and enabling. Taking turns getting your way, not developing habits of accommodation for this man who lost his wife and has needs and health issues and the need to trample boundaries to have what he feels is important....what he wants.
I would re write that if I had time, but there's no time. Consider it perspective. You're good at dealing with difficult people. Perhaps not so good at putting yourself first, and boundary transgressions always start small in my experience. Perhaps not consciously, but the first tiny push typically leads to larger and larger and more till we're wondering how we got to that familiar place. Again.
Just pay attention to any excuses you make for him. Pay attention to the accomodations you make. No DIM thinking....denial, ignoring or minimization this time.
Eyes wide, eager and ready to accept what is real up front. Ask for equality.
Don't ask, don't get, Hops. You are so worthy of reciprocity and the care you extend.
:: Nodding emphatically::..
Lighter
You can deliver all this information with humor and ease, even if he isn't capable of receiving with Grace. Just give him the chance to figure it out. He may surprise both of you. It happened that way for my mother in her second marriage, and my SF adored her Moxy. He respected her ability to stand up for herself, but she started with small boundary transgressions FIRST to get to equality and joy. Does that make sense?
Hopalong:
Wowsers. Thank you so MUCH.
Lighter, this is good, wise warning...watching those little boundary issues and not letting a pattern begin. It's the frog-in-pot-of-cold-water thing, with accomodations. I want to make the generous, humorous, humanist ones. But not the others.
How many women do we know who got lost in the unmarked territory between the two? Because of that, I'm extra grateful for your awareness and reminders. Thank you.
Amber, you're right...I want to not over-interpret and have a paranoid suspicion about all the stuff he does or indicates. It's actually quite hard, being a fossilized feminist on her own for the last couple decades. But I'm glad for the challenge. I feel myself stretching and fearing and then....sorta coming back. Breathe. He's a human. He's probably not all that difficult to interpret! (I make it hard, internally.)
And you'll appreciate how your insight instantly helped. We were on the phone and he was telling me...last night was great, I had a terrific time, and that means you get an A+. My reponse? But I'm not interested in being graded.... And he goes: No, that just means you got a compliment from an engineer.
I almost said, have you met Amber?
:lol:
Then he started waxing eloquent about how he wants to hold and kiss me and blah blah (all physical stuff) but then said...to show you that I think the world of you.
[pause for brief melt]...and I realize, I think, that for him his physical desire of me IS a response to "who I am." He just uses physical language. I hope that's right.
Does it mean he feels the highest compliment he could pay me is to talk about how he *wants* me? I dunno. But in his analytical way, he might be trying to say that.
Dunno, dunno. It's lovely to be an object of desire. But I don't wanna be an object of desire. Catch my conundrum?
I give everybody here a blanket invite to the long-running triple feature of Hops Dunno.
xxoo
Hops
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