Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Heist on Something....
lighter:
Hops:
It takes bravery to speak about things we fear....things that could change our life, crush a hope.... opportunity, I ME.
You're stepping up, and using your voice. B is listening and responding. This is huge, for so many reasons. And B might have to sulk and examine his inner world a bit.... I imagine it won't be comfortable, which is the opposite of what he seeks from you. He seems to be game, and that is hopeful.
As Amber hit on, B is rushing connection without building trust and connection. For me that speaks if needing and grasping at anything to stuff in his loneliness hole.
Want is more about two people, who can examine their motivation and emotions as you say, choosing one another with a LTR in mind. You're in that space. B is facing it for the first time. He may look at you as a treasure....as a a valued resource, if he's wise, IME. I've seen CEO right winged men embrace that new piece in their lives. As I said, my mother did it slowly with my step father, the emotional came later in other words. I think I'm saying big change takes time, and my mother was a very strong personality. She wanted and felt entitled to what she wanted.
I worry that you're desire for peace, and allergies to conflict might eventually silence you in this relationship. You refer to B as someone you felt was important... I'm afraid he'll use his words, and maybe go between overt kindness to moodiness, denying you comfort if true connection, hope he can be a good enough partner.....trauma bonding is such a familiar dance, isn't it? Is that a bit of what's going on here, and....if it is....is it something he IS, or something he's doing at a stressful time he would change if only he could?
I'm trying to say that B might jump sideways on his way to understanding,and settling into wanting not needing so much.
He might not ever budge from his position, just posture as he continues toward a set goal he doesn't understand or have the ability to value, beyond what he can get when he wants it.
I guess you're trying to meet in the middle somewhere so neither if you feels diminished. You certainly want to approach a guilded cage with care, even if you make that choice, IME.
In the meantime, expect B to struggle a bit and require space to thrash without being judged. Growth is painful. Reflection brings clarity. He might be a bit all over the page for a bit, and you'll pay attention. Is he reflecting, or just thrashing? Is he growing or just trying to find the path of least resistance? Is he resentful that small words and efforts aren't clearing his way, it is he softening, truly, to you and your needs?
People thrash. The thrashing isn't always indicative of where we end up, IME.
Lighter
Hopalong:
Lighter, thank you.
I'm pretty stunned by how incisively and clearly you see not just broad behavior patterns, but nuances. And can articulate them for another.
This is so valuable to me. I need to read and re-read.
You are expansive and compassionate toward his humanity and at the same time, alert to his attitude toward mine--offering me potential benchmarks to notice. I appreciate that greatly. I just hope I am smart and intuitive enough to find a healthy balance between wariness, weariness, self-defense, self-sabotage, and the yearnings of the heart. I am NOT interested in power struggle and sometimes with B., it feels that way. I get it. It may be his life's story. But hopefully, he may be one of those older men who's ready for the kind of pivot you describe.
I'm especially grateful for what you said about noticing whether he's really interested in my needs or just grinding forward to make obstacles disappear so he can get what he wants asap.
(One blunt friend emailed me that it's "unfair" for me to hold out on B. as in her --and her husband's!-- opinion I've known him long enough. She is a brilliant, odd duck and I decided to be amused, not offended. I hadn't asked her to pass along her hubby's opinion about that! Lordy....it's actually funny. But also made me a little embarrassed. She's one of the two friends who's met him. She's the econ professor and World Bank consultant...a hugely accomplished Type A+++ woman. But wow...I told her I realized I'd opened the door but think I should keep my private decision making more private for now. Changed the subject to our upcoming lunch.
"Heist" is apt. I'm SO glad I have this safe space to talk about anything!!!)
Wow and wow again. Thank you!
Humbly,
Hops
Hopalong:
PS -- Another true reason I'm not interested in power struggle (which some see as primally positive, a test, a vital exercise, etc) is that I am a coward. I embrace my cowardice. As a child I was so empathetic and sensitive that I could hardly bear being in the world.
Example, probably not terribly original for a sensitive type: From my first glimpse of it in childhood onward, I loathed football on sight. Simple reason -- it was violent. All these boys were crashing into each other and the collisions were obviously one point of the game. As a small, I saw it as, they're TRYING to hurt each other. As a larger, well maybe that's not what they're thinking but nonetheless, it's obviously what they're doing.
So I've been eager to see the film Concussion, just watched it on Amazon last night. Spent the morning (hello, internet rabbit holes) reading fantastic articles in GQ about the pathologist who discovered it and all the ramifications, player stories, the science, the NFL's loathsome initial response, the impact of money, and the blood-lust of the American public.
Very validating. Sort of in a similar way that all of a sudden, Americans are feminists now! Amazing articles on sexual harrassment -- some crude and over-reaching, some sex panic, and many many more, imo, profoundly vulnerable/powerful stories from women explaining what it feels like to be over-ridden. How it affects your sense of self.
I'm sure a lot of that is echoing in my personal experience now. It's an amazing time and I'm going to try to see the good in this onslaught of awakening. It's cultural and personal and quite surprising to me how the two are dancing simultaneously right now.
xo
Hops
Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: Hopalong on December 23, 2017, 01:18:29 PM ---Lighter, thank you.
I'm pretty stunned by how incisively and clearly you see not just broad behavior patterns, but nuances. And can articulate them for another.
This is so valuable to me. I need to read and re-read.
You are expansive and compassionate toward his humanity and at the same time, alert to his attitude toward mine--offering me potential benchmarks to notice. I appreciate that greatly. I just hope I am smart and intuitive enough to find a healthy balance between wariness, weariness, self-defense, self-sabotage, and the yearnings of the heart. I am NOT interested in power struggle and sometimes with B., it feels that way. I get it. It may be his life's story. But hopefully, he may be one of those older men who's ready for the kind of pivot you describe.
I'm especially grateful for what you said about noticing whether he's really interested in my needs or just grinding forward to make obstacles disappear so he can get what he wants asap.
(One blunt friend emailed me that it's "unfair" for me to hold out on B. as in her --and her husband's!-- opinion I've known him long enough. She is a brilliant, odd duck and I decided to be amused, not offended. I hadn't asked her to pass along her hubby's opinion about that! Lordy....it's actually funny. But also made me a little embarrassed. She's one of the two friends who's met him. She's the econ professor and World Bank consultant...a hugely accomplished Type A+++ woman. But wow...I told her I realized I'd opened the door but think I should keep my private decision making more private for now. Changed the subject to our upcoming lunch.
"Heist" is apt. I'm SO glad I have this safe space to talk about anything!!!)
Wow and wow again. Thank you!
Humbly,
Hops
--- End quote ---
Bleurgh, I hate the way sex is seen as a power struggle or a bargaining tool that women 'hold on' to and men constantly try to get. I get that your friend is probably well intentioned but sex is different for different people and for some people it's much more about emotional intimacy and vulnerability than it is about the physical act itself. Personally I am glad you've not gone against your own wishes and slept with him, Hops. Reading through what you've written I can see two very different scenarios with B. In the first he is a sweet man, rather set in his ways and struggling to work his way through dating/relationships/later years in life after losing his wife and perhaps struggling a little to keep pace with your (quite advanced) emotional intelligence and your huge heart that you wear bravely on your sleeve and are willing to offer him, providing he meets certain standards :) On the other, it could be that his disappointment and annoyance at you talking about your friends indicates a controlling nature (that may get worse), his difficulties in verbalising how he feels and picking up on how you feel may indicate self centredness and a lack of interest in others, his willingness to concede to comments that you make may, as Lighter says, be him smoothing the waters to get what he wants quicker. I think we are all hoping it's the first scenario! But equally you've had your heart broken enough times to know the second is possible and it is eminently sensible to hold back until you feel completely comfortable - however many weeks, months or even years that takes. And yes, best to shut the door on that conversation with that particular friend! Lol xx
Hopalong:
THANK YOU, ((((Tupp)))). Yegods, this is heartening and supportive in the deepest definition of the term.
Not to mention apt, precise, compellingly comforting in its reality. I am so grateful for reality. I am such a fuzz-head in so many ways in my lazy, ADD-distracted, rabbit-hole escapist daily life that it's been very difficult to focus the lens. With you all observing and commenting, I feel as though I have Company. In the realest sense of company. Having a company. Not marching alone.
This really, really helps me do that better:
--- Quote ---I can see two very different scenarios with B. In the first he is a sweet man, rather set in his ways and struggling to work his way through dating/relationships/later years in life after losing his wife and perhaps struggling a little to keep pace with your (quite advanced) emotional intelligence and your huge heart that you wear bravely on your sleeve and are willing to offer him, providing he meets certain standards :) On the other, it could be that his disappointment and annoyance at you talking about your friends indicates a controlling nature (that may get worse), his difficulties in verbalising how he feels and picking up on how you feel may indicate self centredness and a lack of interest in others, his willingness to concede to comments that you make may, as Lighter says, be him smoothing the waters to get what he wants quicker. I think we are all hoping it's the first scenario! But equally you've had your heart broken enough times to know the second is possible and it is eminently sensible to hold back until you feel completely comfortable - however many weeks, months....
--- End quote ---
I can't thank you enough because this feels so anchored. So real.
And now off I go to the lion's den, errr, the sweet man's lovely house in the country...for a long afternoon/evening of what I HOPE will be great talk, savvy observation, undefensive affection, pleasant boundaries held in a light and generous-hearted way.... Hope is nice. Paying attention is nicer. I am clearly ambivalent but also looking forward to seeing him.
He just called to say he hiked 5 miles and his knees hurt and needs a shower. So I offered to come a bit later. My grand conversation plan may be sidelined if he falls asleep. And it'd probably be a relief. We'll see!
(I wanted to say, oh that's good I'll be coming a bit later, so you won't be fantasizing about wandering around in your skivvies...but refrained....) :lol:
xxxooo
Hops
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