Just the crap I've been up to - LOL

[lighter]

Amber:

All you can do is what you're doing.  Allow Amy to find her way, not try to save her, and support her journey in ways that make sense to you.

Making sure she has access to mental healthcare is something you can feel hopeful about.  Even if she doesn't make the most of it, or can't yet. 

Hops, glad you're doing OK.  Looking forward to your update: )

Lighter 

[sKePTiKal]

Well. Come to find out, it was Hol who told Amy to call me. And Amy who said she hadn't talked to her sister... for whatever reason. Hol thinks it's because she's afraid of being tag-teamed by us. I didn't keep a secret very long either, huh?

But it was because I wanted to shore up Hol's awareness of needing to protect herself, too. They were so close in age, they were treated like twins often. (I tried to discourage that, but Grammas are invinceable.) The kid is going through anticipatory grief for her sister... and worry about the boys.

So, more info from Holly... is that Amy's substance abuse problem is beginning to affect her healthwise. And we're back into the do-se-do of propping up each other in our "boundary maintenance"... and no, Holly isn't buying that hope of "this time... we can save Amy" either. But we'll walk that again, this time at more of a distance... to see if Amy's able to a) really seek out help and b) stick with working through the substance issues and then tackle the underlying emotional causes.

I don't THINK I'll need the bunny hat again. But yes, I still have it. Mike got me that, after the 10 day "intervention" trip we tried a few years ago. He didn't know what else would comfort me... and the hat was PERFECT. I could put it on as a "sign" I was feeling sad (she who buries feelings deep)... and look in the mirror and see a rediculous "me" looking back at myself. So, grief didn't drag me down into my own "hole".

[Hopalong]

((((((((((Amber))))))))).

Words fail as wakes cross.
I am glad you know about self-protection.
And shoring up Hol's understanding of the same may work, if it's one statement you've never made to her before. But if it's just a repeat that might be a sign from life that Hol has to figure out what co-dependency is on her own. You COULD send her a good reliable book about it, to relieve yourself of being the authority. (Just in case you slide down the slope I lived on -- fixing, advising, controlling, panicking, rinse and repeat....). Which wound up being toxic to us both.

One pragmatic thought. I got to a place where when financial help was needed for health issues, I made it my policy to mail the check made out to the provider, either as an exact amount or as a kind of "retainer" (for example, to cover therapy).

This allows one to know: 1) If the provider cashed it (which would indicate services used), and 2) When.

Leaves you somewhat in the loop, anyway. And you can detour around your D's untrustworthy patterns without insult or offense, simply in an accounting kinda way.

You're probably already doing that, but fwiw.

So much support to you and Hols and A--and her children--

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks Hops - that's a good idea, about making the check out to the provider. Hol has been doing her own work on herself. Co-dependency was a theme. She's a good researcher... and thinker, after she's read a lot of different takes on a subject.

A sounds like she's a real mess - or she's insisting on drinking to excess to blot out whatever thoughts are tormenting her. Thought crossed my mind, that she sounded like she was regressing... to a persona of when she was about 10 yrs old. I wish I knew if some mental illness presents as if a person is high or intoxicated... or if extreme substance abuse causes that kind behavior. She keeps babbling the same phrases over & over... like "maybe I'll make some dinner", when I suggested it might take her mind off things a little bit to do something for someone else (like take care of her kids who've got to be terrified)... and repeating parts of thoughts repeatedly, until I reminded her about the "rule of 3"... the kids liked to drive me nutz in the car, repeating the same line from a movie or a song over & over. So I told them they could say it 3 times total... and after that, there were no warnings about me getting mad. Turns out Holly had to do the same thing, when she talked to her.

But she says she has an appt with a counseling service on Thursday. We'll see if she remembers (I'll prompt her Wed night) to go. She seems to be diving deeper into irrationality. Friday night, she was pretty clear and her genuine self - even if she did repeat herself a lot.

If all that sounds cool calm & collected... LOL... right. I'm not sure how well I can protect myself in this situation... so I'm leaning on ye olde "intellectual" perspective crutch to not let my imagination run away with me. I have the bunny hat; worst case scenario. But I can tell it bothers the crap out of me. All I want to do is talk to people...

about ANYTHING normal.

[lighter]

Amber:

My Dd17's T said DD's regression into her little child's voice was indicative of the age she was when she experienced the trauma she needed to work through.  He heard that voice, and saw a clue.

I'm praying for the best possible outcome for you, Hol, A, and your grandsons. 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

That is a heart-wrenching description, Amber.
I am so sorry.

I remember the cold fear and hot pain.
Please take care of yourself, I know you know,
but...it's hard to remember at times.

love and comfort,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I can definitely see the correlation, if there is a buried memory that's so fearful to look at (or was, at that age) that it becomes a "poison arrowhead"... constantly dripping a timed-release poison into your being. I have said as much Amy; that she needs to explain to a counselor that she thinks there is something like this fueling her cycles of repetitive seeking out more self-destruction. And she wants to learn what it is and how to stop it from controlling HER... while it may never go completely away, she doesn't need to keep trying to resolve the same situation over & over (IRL) looking for a better outcome. (I suspect that's not the whole issue here.)

But I also explained that that was MY experience. She will get more and better help finding someone who can be impartial, has no history with her, and is trained in how we create these things in the first place... and how to undo that tangle of crap. Her crap isn't the same as my crap; and she has to own her own crap to be able to do something about. I can't.

All too often, she seems to look to enmesh; to "be just like Mom"; and with an invisible (to her) ton of heavy hostility. I've looked at that and honestly can say I have no idea what that's about. I figure she feels safe unloading on me, so I'm the one that gets dumped on. It's the only explanation that makes sense... unless I'm missing something. And that's entirely possible. But we won't know until she knows what the burr under her saddle is.

Meanwhile - its asking way too much of myself to try to engage with this widow who's only statements are that she wants to die and simply will not answer direct questions about whether that's a fear about living alone... having a self that isn't (co)dependent on a hubby that isn't coming back... and seems more than anything else, to be throwing out these cryptic scary statements because she can't talk back to any of the loops in her head or explain herself any other way. I'm limiting myself to practical suggestions on living alone in another thread... trying to give this widow positive feedback... and keeping my distance. Let the others try to reach through her steel gates of silence and figure out whether the statements are figures of speech, in an attempt to express pain/grief... or if they are more than that. She did tell me she wanted me to keep talking to her and asking questions and making small-talk and suggestions.

Maybe that's kinda like my wanting to talk about anything except what's feeling bad in me and is worrying me. I dunno. Going to plain old limit my time over there too... and get my butt in gear in real life. Too much time spent in my head, picking at navel-lint, and speculating... trying to design bridges in my head to solve stuff that isn't my business or job... no matter how much I might care.

I'm going to keep plugging away at my "indoor" list. Warmer drier weather is coming and then I've got a LOT I want to get started on this spring. Concrete, specific projects with immediate results... and benefits for my efforts. And yes, I'm still giving myself time to melt into a puddle of tears at how heavy this all feels, right now. Might as well; it's the only real relief right now.

I think maybe my list needs to be made into a map now. Go from ideas to "timeline" and "journey" in making the ideas "real stuff".

[Twoapenny]

Skep I hope you can get through this without getting dragged too far in to it - I mean that in a kind way   It's so hard to watch people we love go through bad times, and harder still not to leap in and rescue and make it all better.  I often feel like I want to die - not in a 'I'm going to rush off and kill myself' way, but I do think/wonder if there is some sort of deep seated thing in me that keeps surfacing and that hasn't really worked itself through yet.  Sometimes I feel like being dead would just be a way to stop everything going round and round in my head at times.  Equally I know how distressing it is for other people to hear it - so I think A discussing it with a counsellor (as you suggested) would be good, partly because I think that the counsellor then takes some responsibility for dealing with it (ie, if they feel it is a serious threat they will call whoever is needed and be taken more seriously because it's a therapist).  CBT helped me with those sort of thoughts as well but I do feel there's some sort of deep seated something in there.  Maybe it's similar for Amy but, as you rightly say, she's the only one that can dig into that and try to deal with it and get some sort of stability into her life again.  I think getting on with some real time stuff for you is a good way to keep busy while she tries to work through things. xx

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks Tupps, I really am trying to do a better job of protecting myself this go-round. And being prepared, too.

IF there really is a defined trauma trying to become conscious for Amy, it would make sense that it would surface this way. There are clues starting to show up... in some of her ranting/ravings/babblings. But I'm not letting myself get too involved in trying to piece those together. Just keeping her focused on the concrete actions, of getting herself to where the "help" is. Part of my brain just automatically tries to do this... and it's a dangerous thing to do.

I'm trying to keep my brain too busy right now, to indulge. It could be years before Amy really gets down to the nitty-gritty of the issue - IF, she ever does - IF she really gets help.

[sKePTiKal]

Change of pace day...

going over the mountain for a haircut, pick up new glasses, do a little shopping. I wish I'd been settled enough to get a massage scheduled... it's been TOO LONG again. And I really need my shoulders worked on. Next trip.

We'll see how many stops I make today, before I run for the hills again. LOL. Having lunch with my friend, it's a long weekend for her... she's always visiting me... and part of my wish to move back here, was to be able to visit HER and others for a change.

Amy meets a therapist today. It was either something she did/didn't do (don't know which) that meant she couldn't see the "bargain" counselor... and will get someone who charges a good bit more. I'm hoping that means they have deeper training too. I'll be checking in with her later to see how it went. Meanwhile, I'll be incommunicado on the road today.

[Hopalong]

I hope you have a good day and happy distractions, Amber. You so deserve it.

You know, something I hear is that in a way, I wonder if you sometimes feel you ARE Amy's T, and would like to let go of that position?

A boundary thing to consider might be...what about if you don't call her and ask for information about the new T, or how the session went. I completely and totally understand why you'd be interested in knowing, but wonder if A might do better NOT reporting to her mother about this.

You could release your involvement in her deep stuff, which is really hers to heal. She may or may not be able to heal it with a T's help...but I do wonder how it might feel to have an authoritative and confident mother prepared to make summary or quality evaluations of an intimate, difficult process. If I had weak boundaries or were very ill it might be impossible to say No to expectations that I share T content, or "report" on that experience. But it's hard to imagine sharing it with a parent.

Could it be possible that A will do better in this situation if you do not involve yourself, other than paying for it if you want to? (And could it be possible that you will do better, too?)

I'm not sure and it could be a faulty intuition. I do loads of those.

Love to you,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks Tupps, I really am trying to do a better job of protecting myself this go-round. And being prepared, too.

IF there really is a defined trauma trying to become conscious for Amy, it would make sense that it would surface this way. There are clues starting to show up... in some of her ranting/ravings/babblings. But I'm not letting myself get too involved in trying to piece those together. Just keeping her focused on the concrete actions, of getting herself to where the "help" is. Part of my brain just automatically tries to do this... and it's a dangerous thing to do.

I'm trying to keep my brain too busy right now, to indulge. It could be years before Amy really gets down to the nitty-gritty of the issue - IF, she ever does - IF she really gets help.

I think you're right to protect yourself, Skep.  I know when I was having therapy and lots of weird stuff was going on for me - very strong emotions, physical flashbacks, lots of health related symptoms with no clear cause - we talked a lot about repressed memories/forgotten trauma and basically my T said the thing to focus on was dealing with the feelings and managing them as they came up, rather than focusing on trying to work out what was causing it.  It was good advice for me and maybe for you as well - not to focus on the why but to focus more on the here and now - and first part of that being looking after yourself in whichever way is best at the moment.  I hope A starts to get the help she needs but also hope that you're able to put yourself first and keep your own health at the forefront of your mind xx

[sKePTiKal]

Oh... I don't want to be involved in her actual therapy unless I'm asked to be and I'm not planning on inquiring about the "gory details" at all; just general questions about how she's doing. Right now, I'm just making sure she follows through with what she SAYS she wants... because it is so easy to sabotage herself and then say "I forgot"... much of what she SAYS is fantasy and she'll deny even saying it.

That's all. IMO, it's really important that she owns this whole process, beginning to end, and earns her self, in the end -- with no "family" intervention. But since she doesn't seem (some days) to realize it's time to cook dinner... for instance... I'm just riding herd to get her to help, without nagging her at all about it. I still don't know if she actually went today or not.

It's kind of a double bind, because if I don't check in - then "I don't care" about her... but if I do, and the words are wrong... then she's defensive. So I'm holding off a little while long before calling. It was a long day in town today... Debbie and I talked for 2 hrs... but I got everything done I needed to do.

[sKePTiKal]

Sigh of relief... Amy went; seemed to hit it off OK; came home with "homework"... did it and is slowly feeling like she has some control over her life  & is engaged in classes for her re-certification as an EMT. All volunteered info, btw. Every 2 week schedule for now.

Sounds like a positive experience and good start.