Stepping Out

[Hopalong]

So I had a date for a glass of wine with a fella.

Nice fella. Sees himself as a "bad boy" but long talk showed it to be shame from ADD, which I could surely relate to. His was so bad he didn't make it in college.

But he was a compulsive flirt, kept telling the waitress what beautiful eyes she had, how she is a "good woman" and he loved her necklaces...and kept repeatedly making overtures. At one point she and eye exchanged a glance that said, "He's really over the top, huh..."

We enjoyed talking and he was attractive. But I tuned out when he oh-so-cleverly said, So what's the rule about how many dates before sex? I'm thinking...five. So I said, "Five sounds good to me too. Five months." He looked amazed.

I am just SO turned off by men who bring it up, bring it up, bring it up...too soon, too overtly, too obviously, too obliviously...so even though I realized he was a decent person and interesting, I wrote him after that "we're not a match."

It's weird. I was completely round-heeled in my youth and don't have any moralistic feelings about whether people do the horizontal mambo right away or later...but maybe I'm reverting somehow to an older code.

He was just so FUNCTIONAL about it, that I recoiled. I'd like a sexy man who also has dignity and restraint. And honestly, I think asking basically, how soon can we boink? is not attractive.

Have I become a snob?

Sigh,
Hops

[lighter]

Hops.... I think there has GOT to be some chemistry to consider sex.  If there's no chemistry we're forced to pick ourselves apart Wondering why, why why isn't it feeling like a good idea.

I think it's lack of chemistry.  Don't analyze too much.  Look forward to finding chemistry.... you'll know it when you do.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Meh. I think it's the programming of society these days - everyone sleeping with "hook ups". Kinda like the casual sex of the 70s. Except we had actually spent SOME time letting the attraction grow back then. LOL. God knows, I still have "cravings" of that sort... but like you, sex for sex's sake just doesn't interest me. Looking for some companionship & intimacy... and we can save the sex for "dessert". If you're at least observant of the forms of "romance" (which doesn't have any one fixed definition).

Sounds like he's the type (I'm stereotyping) that measures his esteem by notches on his belt - and the overt flirting is one sign of that type.

[Twoapenny]

Wow, Hopsie, not a snob at all!  For me, a bloke immediately bringing up sex means he'll shag anyone (do you say shag in the States?  It's a common term over here .  And that's the bit that puts me off.  I want a guy who wants a woman with a brain and a personality, the sort of guy that needs intelligence and depth in a woman to find her sexy and want to sleep with her.  I want someone who's a bit picky, because I want to be picked, chosen, selected, not bedded because I'll do for now.  I want someone for whom sex is an important part of the relationship alongside the long lengthy chats and the belly laughs and the sharing of secrets and that real emotional closeness you get when you're with someone who is on your wavelength.  I want those things to be as important, if not more important, than the sex, to him as well as to me.  I think it can be very different when you're younger, for all sorts of reasons.  So no, nothing snobbish about you, or weird or odd or prudish.  You value yourself and you have high standards - only good things in my opinion xx

[Hopalong]

Thanks, guys!

I wasn't offended strongly....it was just, poor guy, is this what you're reduced to? He had a mix of entitlement (wealthy family) and shame (poor academic performance, a divorce he regretted, living in cottage on wealthy sister's property due to personal poverty). Sort of old-school family stuff, and an almost Gothic-Suthrun psyche you find in some people in some places, some of the time.

I recognized it. Met a lot of sad boys with loads of privilege when I was young here. Felt badly for him because he hasn't healed the shame. Idolized his father, but his own brain was totally wired differently so he could never ever measure up...and off to the races. And even though he knows he has (medical, not his fault) bipolar and ADD (odd, huh)...I could see him feeling shame about not being A Success. So much pressure, being raised to meet a golden myth.

Hmmm. I think this is part of why I date. It's the STORIES. I love life stories.

xxoo
Hops

[lighter]

Hops, whatever you write, I'm always engaged, and a bit envious of how beautifully you write.  Our resident poet.  Amazing, and so bright.

What I noticed while reading about this man is....you're more interesting to read about.  I realize you were responding to us, but I noticed I miss hearing about you.  What you're doing today, are you writing again?  Planning one square foot if believed fresh vegetables in the garden?  Is pooch happy warm weather is here, finally to stay?

Are you?

And....is there another stepping out planned?

(((Hops)))

I realized this morning, I don't hug you enough.

Light

[Ales2]

Funny you mention this at this time. Earlier this week, I was thinking about things that trigger me to react badly in dating relationships.  That reminded me of a couple date with a promising guy. I'll cut to the chase and make my point.

The chase - After about 3 dates, he suggested that I cook him dinner at my place on a Monday night and he stay over.  Stay over as in have sex.  (He worked for a 4 star hotel, doing on-site IT Weds-Sunday and has Monday/Tuesday off).   Anyway, I was offended and basically told him we are "not a match" just like you did.  I told him, that's not the way it works. Its not something you plan, it just happens or is doesn't. When guys ask too soon, its like opening the oven on souffle, if its not fully cooked, it lets the heat out quickly.

My point - I did get triggered. I KNEW THE ANSWER to this problem, but didn't access and verbalize it at that time.  We are supposed to slow them down to a rate where we are comfortable, we trust them, we are interested in the prospect etc.  There are short answers that we can say that make our expectations clear things like:

*sleepovers are for weekends
*sleepovers are for girlfriends
*for me, sex is part of a relationship, not dating
*five dates, five months - good one Hops!
*Write your own explanation here.

I find these very helpful to have sorted out my boundaries and explanations before I go on dates. Younger people rush into sex because of hormones and lack of experience with dating, Older people (I mean 50 plus)  rush into sex mostly because they don't have that 6months to a year, its more like, lets get physical, make this work out or move on. I kind of get where he is coming from.

I don't think its a deal breaker, but if slowing him down to your speed is a problem, then yes, you are correct its not a match.

Sorry it didn't work out Hops. Sending best wishes for better luck next time!

[Ales2]

Part of this not getting triggered and being able to be expressive (I don't like the word assertive here) and negotiate a win/win relationship starts with the old Stephen Covey adage, "seek first to understand then to be understood"  (Habit 5 in the 7 Habits). It does work in relationships very well.

The second part of the triggers is how we deal with them explains our unconscious coping mechanism and gives us insight into growing into a better place.  I'm know I am an avoidant/dismissive non-trusting type. I'm like you Hops in that I listen, observe, notice and mentally record the issues (like you did with B and then with this guy) that are presented to us. We seek to be aware and assign meanings to that awareness. Some of that is good, we stay safe in some ways, (I don't date jerks, I see them for who they are and move on) but  it becomes a chronic problem when we lose hope in relationships and go long periods without dating or without a relationship that is a problem that needs to be addressed. That is equally unhealthy. I know I have done this to myself and if I truly want to heal, I will have to make this adjustment to move on.

I kept mulling over the "I can't trust anyone, too many people have evil, untrustworthy shadows" in my journal for several weeks after Valentines Day. After about a month of thought and writing on this subject I was watching a Tv pastor who just wrote a book on Trusting God. I am not a big believer in turning your life over to a higher power, but after more contemplation, I had come to the conclusion that I can trust myself to make decisions to handle unnecessary conflicts.  Then I found this video. Its says alot and I don't agree with Dr. Phil on a lot of things, watch with an open mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4SHvKdr30

On one level, I think we all suffer (meaning people here on the Board) from being over-cautious because of what we've been through. The way out of that is learning to trust ourselves that we are knowledgeable, healed, we are stronger and we are ready. Relationships, even the good ones can be messy, so its not going to be foolproof. But, I know I don't want to miss out. I can only do what I can do and be content with that.

good luck to you Hops!