Relationship/s

[lighter]

I think there's sunshine streaming in the writing door, Hops. 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

That's a great image, Lighter.

Thank you!

hugs
Hops

[Meh]

Hops,

Admittedly I haven't kept up with everything happening. Is HE the same person that you went traveling with and was obsessed with food planning and food preparation?

Whoever he is, he probably wants company and hasn't thought about it much deeper than that.

[Hopalong]

Same guy, Mouse.
I call him M.

He's a really good cook though!
He's calmed down in the kitchen and I decided I was being ungrateful.

He's just scared of talking about feelings.

Hugs
Hops

[seastorm]

I followed all this and it comes down to he won't talk about his feelings. This could really grate after awhile. I imagine you meet his needs quite wonderfully, you ruby, crystal lovely intuitive soul.

He looks very good and presentable and all that but cool. Take care of your heart, dear one.

Sea

[Hopalong]

Thanks, ((((((Sea)))))).

I am, I think. (And thank you for the lovely things you said.)

I feel more solid in myself than I did while we were trying to navigate a future plan and his forcefulness was so very stressful for me. We're both acting a lot mellower now--from having let the dreams go-- and I do think the pandemic has caused more introspection.

I feel mortal in new ways these days but it's not all bad.

hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

After several months of floating in a very happy just-friends-companions space with M, I've gotten back into an anxiety space. I think I know why but it'll help me clarify to write it here (as usual).

He's started mentioning me traveling with him once restrictions are lifted. Like to California to see his wonderful kids, their families, and the adorable grandkids. The way he's mentioned it (about 3 times) is now: 'You can come if you want." Also, we wrote back and forth a little about a free screening of an event about Barcelona (he doesn't want to go, mainly I think because he's jealous of his colleage who is hosting it and "doesn't know what he's talking about" -- unlike M, who lived there at one point). I dropped it, and then he wrote: Let's go to Barcelona in July!

I replied -- we can talk about it. But inside, things went awry and I got very anxious and re-read emails from the time I did the breakup in July, just to remind myself what the issues were. And I saw his replies, including comments like "Don't imagine anything new" and "Life's too short [for serious therapy" and there's no time!" etc. And he's also said:
It doesn't have to be that way. (Re. my fears of old age miseries in a nursing home)
There will never BE another woman!

Oy. Bottom line is, I need to believe him and stop the trickle of NEW dreams I'd begun to indulge in myself since we've been such happy and comforted companions as pod-mates during quarantine. Sigh.

What I'm forcing myself to focus on now is:
--He has directly or indirectly refused to talk about our relationship, or feelings.
--He has made multiple comments about not dealing directly with the future, just staying in his house until he can't, and then assuming his kids will come to the rescue. (He's really not concerned with organizing things or planning his downsizing.)
--I believe he realized during our house hunt that he really isn't interested in making a home together or sharing daily life. He never said so, but acted it out.

So. My conclusion is that it would hurt a LOT to go re-bond with his kids, whom I really really adored and who welcomed me like a family member. To re-appear there without any clarity on who I am in their world now would just pile on feelings of outsiderness and to re-bond with the baby and then know I'll never be her grandma just sounds like pain on legs. So I'm saying no to that.

No real conversation about who we are to each other now, and what we EACH want? I think he just wants me to adapt to his preferences, honestly. And I can, to the degree that the occasional shared meal and evening is comforting and fun. But if he's subtly trying to re-introduce travel and family time...I think it's too much for me to handle, without feeling some security. And I don't.

I'm also not feeling fit enough for the stresses of big travel.

So for all those reasons, I'm going to tell him tomorrow evening that I'm not able to go, and perhaps it'd be better if he wouldn't keep inviting me.

(In some ways it feels like he's dangling carrots under my nose. Am I a mule?)

Hugs
Hops

[lighter]

((((Hops))))
No....not a mule.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Got up the nerve to tell him over the phone that I needed that sort of honest conversation now. Told him I'd started re-dreaming and then got quite anxious when he made repeated invitations to be with his family again, much less Spain. And that I wanted to know how he felt too.

He said that because I "summarily executed" him during the last T session, he felt he could never live with or marry me. And that I'm "too self absorbed." But he loves my company and still wants my companionship. Dinner tomorrow.

I think that leaves me between a rock and a hard place, because although it's been very comforting to have the "pod" together, he's been clear. And I have to as well. If I continue pouring so much daily thought and attention into him, my uncertain old age will just get moreso. And what I want is a deeper and fuller relationship, including the commitment that would give me some security. I'm not ashamed of it. I may never get it but I also can't pretend it doesn't matter. I'd live in a state of loss and subtle grieving if I just keep going as it is. It's important that I heard him.

If he's still got his victim narrative going ("The woman broke it off in front of our therapist!") and characterizes that as "unconscionable" -- he's dismissing everything else, villainizing me, and taking no responsibility for any part he played. I think we BOTH contributed to the collapse of our initial relationship. But I'm alone in that, because he wants to blame it all on me and avoid all vulnerability -- and still have the stimulating interesting dinner companion and caring friend he really enjoys.

Truth is, I think he's a dutiful friend to maintain the sparkling conversation times and dinner company. But I'm not experiencing him being a very caring one. He is completely incurious about what I am experiencing. And distress is unwelcome. It somehow breaks the rules.

My poet friend, who's spent some time with us, said she thinks he's very comfortable with pretense. And so a pretend relationship is where he feels at home. The rituals and dinners and silly emails...that's really all he needs. (And he does love Pooch.) For me, those things would be enough too, within the context of a shared life.

I'm glad I talked to him and heard what he had to say. It'll sink in. And I'm grateful for the company and support we've given each other during this pandemic time.

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I'm sorry, Hops ((((((Hopsie))))))

I am glad he's been clear and direct, though, and not given you any false hope or made promises that he can't keep.  I know it isn't the way you wanted things to turn out, ideally.  But hopefully over time the current situation will lessen and the comfort of a pod won't be as essential as it is now.  And I hope you're able to keep being kind and caring to yourself in the meantime xx

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lighter.

Thanks, Tupp...
I am a little scared he'll chew me up again, but he promised he won't, he just wants to "explain a few things" to me, so I'm going to dinner.

Thing is, he really can't see much from my point of view so if I say something hurts, his response is to dismiss it by "explaining" why I need to stop feeling what I feel or have no reason to feel what I feel. He's just so far away from understanding how to have empathy, and that emotions aren't something you "agree with" or "disagree with" -- they're just what they are.

My feelings hardly-HARDLY make me right but they also didn't make me wrong last summer. I think the only way he knows how to approach it, if I express distress about anything, is through critique. It's the academic thing, brilliant in his professoring....but applied to intimacy or commitment (or lack thereof) it just backfires. I was confused by his pressure to do V-Day and to go see his family. In tougher women it might not have, but in me, it produced anxiety.

My poet friend said:
His lack of accountability for why you broke up with him shows his shallowness in all this. He just wanted to be stroked and not questioned. A steely center. Lots of unearned pride. He's kind of trying to get his own back on you for hurting him. So no insight. You are better off without him if he's playing on your feelings.

Just tell [M] you are going to date again. That's honest and lets him know you are not seeing him exclusively. You could still see each other but on an honest basis for both of you. No more teasing with travel stuff and his f***ing money and security. He can take that and shove it. You have other options and a future and you will get stronger and more healthy. Yes!

That was rousing.

I feel kind of stupid but also just, Popeye ("I yam what I yam."). I don't blame him for the hurt he felt AND I don't blame myself for last summer or for still having the dream I've got. Zero certainty I'll find a shared-life, committed relationship with anyone, but I can still try. It's much too easy to imagine just folding myself into his life, his preferences and his world again -- as a diminished but tolerated companion.

I don't want to live alone the rest of my life and maybe I won't have to.
He doesn't want to commit because I hurt him, and he doesn't have to.

I succeeded very gratefully in accepting our "new shape" -- until Valentine's Day and him also pushing going to be with his family again and later off to Europe. Those triggered.

So, fingers crossed.

hugs (y'all must be so sick of hearing about this old-woman relationship drama),
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Well I would suggest that, as he explains things to you over dinner, that you don't get into trying to explain or justify yourself, Hops.  Just, ahem, aha, oh that's an interesting point, and leave it there.  I'm not sick of hearing about your trials and tribulations with M,  but I am concerned about (and don't like) how often you mention being anxious and scared in relation to him.

I think your poet friend has it spot on - I think he'd be very happy to have a relationship with you, but it would be entirely on his terms and you'd have no voice at all.  I do think there are people who don't need a relationship to be two way, and are happy to just have their needs met, regardless of what the other person wants or needs.  I think your confusion about Valentine's Day and family visits are possibly because to you, these things have intimacy and connection and mean something.  I suspect to M, he just likes having someone there and it doesn't need to be any deeper than that.  It doesn't mean the same thing to him - he can invite you because it's just him doing what he wants and having some interesting company as well.  You wouldn't need to be a tougher woman for that not to induce anxiety, just one that isn't seeking a connection and is happy just to blag a free meal and a free trip.

I just had a thought about this as well - He doesn't want to commit because I hurt him, and he doesn't have to.


I don't think he ever wanted to commit in the way that you wanted to, Hopsie, and I think that's always been the problem.  I think the subtext of what he said isn't that he doesn't want to commit because you hurt him, but that he doesn't want to commit because he knows you won't just put up and shut up, and an equal, open, truthful relationship just isn't what he's seeking.  It's just the way it comes across to me - I could have it all wrong, of course.  I hope the meal is nice, and I also hope you don't rise to arguing with him and that, if he gets mean the way he has before, that you just leave.  Keep in mind that we are still locked down here so I can't get over there to kick his arse and I don't think it's as effective on Zoom Big hugs xx

[Hopalong]

LOL!! Thanks, (((((Tupp))))).

I think you're exactly right and I hope to do this evening just that way:

--let him critique and label and hold forth any way he wants (short of abuse)
--just "hold my peace" in peace, slow breathing as required
--don't take any bait, don't rise to any challenge, don't argue or go on defense
--just be peaceful and come home calm

If there's an opening, I will mention that I am going to be dating again once it's warm enough to meet outdoors, because I accept the reality that we-two won't get where I was yearning to go...which I'd shared on date Two. Told him openly then that wanting to remarry and share my life was why I signed up for the site. I probably needed this "curtain call" for it to become completely clear. But now it is.

I'm still so grateful for our pod-time, and will say that. Very. It's been extremely comforting. And in a way I'm glad his unexpected signals about V-Day and California and Europe happened. Without them, I might not have seen where I am in reality and could have continued deluding myself, with increasing fantasies and hopes, until I found myself lost in his wake.

He's a big man, intellectually. He lives in a big house. He has a big fortune. He has a big family. He takes big trips. He has a big ego.

I need a smaller person. I want Mr. Rogers in his humble sweaters and patience and kindness. (Cool! I'm gonna add that to my profile!)

hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

Survived dinner! It wasn't terrible. He started off with a lot of YOU-this and YOU-that and I kept asking him to focus on how HE felt, but he just doesn't get it. He worked in a few slices (I "scare people" -- I said who? He said, A. One of his timid colleagues who was online. Before I met M, I had had a few dates with this sweet fellow before I gave up...he would write me pleasant vague emails about how much work he had to do, and never get around to any plans. He was uneasy about having me into his (I think muuy messy) house and just plain avoided actually getting together. So I finally wrote him, very kindly, that I felt he wasn't really ready to actually engage so I would with thanks for having met him--he really is sweet--step back from hoping for dates. He said something vague about "you understand more than you realize" or whatever.)

Seems to me M had been venting his sorrows and somehow it came to that. Fine by me. I just laughed and said, "Well, A's easily scared, then." M chuckled because knew it was true and a ridiculous accusation. But he kept trying to sneak in sharp negative characterizations of me and I wouldn't let them pass. Didn't argue, just said a couple things like, "that isn't true" or "that's unfair" instead of going numb.

We dropped the heavy convo pretty soon, but not before we talked some about house hunting (he didn't get it--it was all about which houses HE liked) and I told him I'd never sensed that even though I'd tried to imagine it, that he could really make me welcome in his house. (Move paintings? Make room for me to express anything of my art or whatever?) He said, "I don't want to change anything." Ta da.

I think he was being himself and also honest, and really isn't up to changing his life enough to include me in a fuller way. Nothing more than a dinner a week, on average. I'm glad we had another try. Hugged him and told him I really love him as I left and he said the same, and I may wind up driving him to the doctor soon because he's got more leg/knee problems. He tells me repeatedly that he is always there to "help me" and I know he means that, as duty and loyalty. He also mentioned something about "pampering" a partner. I think that's really his idea of what love is. Buy her a Jaguar, always do the right thing if she's ill. Get her "woman presents" on appropriate occasions. But as to really connecting or changing his life to make way for us both....he's clear. Not happening.

Then he droned on about department politics for a reallllly long time, we had a lovely meal, Pooch was delightful, and we left.

Survived without big battle or melodrama, and I did tell him I will begin dating again in spring because I would like to get married. I think he was a little shocked but he said, "Oh go for it" or something like that. Sad but felt real, honest. And also -- I think I may have conveyed, please don't take me for granted. Regardless of what he thinks, it's right for me to do that for myself, to have something to look forward to. One meal a week is cozy, but not sustaining.

Thank y'all again so much, for SO MUCH understanding.

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I'm glad it was civilised, Hopsie, and that it didn't get nasty and unpleasant. At least now the air has been cleared, you both know exactly where you stand and Spring isn't too far off and hopefully it will be easier for you to get out and about without such a risk once you've had both jabs etc.  I do find it funny that some men find women 'scary' because they communicate their needs   Lol.  It's good that you've got a dinner/lift if you need it buddy (I think that sort of network is always helpful) and it's all ended on a nice enough note.  Hope you are doing okay.  I know that sometimes the 'other' feelings can hit once the moment's passed so I hope you are feeling alright xx