Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 155126 times)

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #825 on: August 04, 2021, 04:03:59 PM »
T was helpful. I teared up for a change (almost never cry there).

I just described the way I've been feeling, weird layer peeling away by layer, since his sons came. And how irritable and stultified I've felt over our repetitive "go over for dinner once a week and talk about the same subjects and nothing personal ever." And then the Big Talk on Monday. And how he slipped in some truths: Don't wanna change my life at all for anybody, and stay here and keep me company weekly anyway but on my schedule....and: don't be a defective "stroke" person, since I might suffer if you died and that's not acceptable. And, I love your dog. (That was a good one.)

She got it. Got pretty pissed about his stroke comment. Told me I'm doing really good work. I realized I am just doing the next (and fortunately, a later) stage of grief. I really did have a lot to grieve when our relationship fell apart, and now it's not a "faux" friendship but has been a weird one since. For me. He's entirely happy with how I've been slotting into his needs.  I admire his honesty.  I don't necessarily like HIM, but am always grateful when people gift me with honesty so I can finally FINALLY peg down my feelings about the reality of the situation. 

I made a big step. He sent me the usual "come to dinner" invite and I replied that I am going to wait a week more and figure it out then. Woo HOO, brave Hops!  I bet that felt SO GOOD.  He might get very happyfriendly soon.  Expect it.

Who knows? By this time next week maybe I'll either be: Brave enough to cut the last thread or realize I'm strong enough to enjoy what's good that lingers and go over anyway.  Who would you make that decision for?  Why would you make it?
 DO you NEED to force that ? Soon?  Now?  Why?  I say.... you don't have to do anything. If you want to think about it. Think.  If you want to putitdown.... PID.  If you want to pick it back up... PIBU.  And no excuses or explanations are necessary, ever, particularly to your friends.   You can calmly turn it over in your mind and see what's there, but you don't have to judge it, Hops.  Not good or bad.
 Ever.  Just what you want or don't want in that moment of thought and it's perfectly OK.  It always has been. 

Why is it so difficult to drop into the moment? Why is it so hard to stop worrying about the past and the present?  I KNOW we're conditioned and trained and develop pathways to DO that, but once we SEE it..... it's still so difficult, IME.


Dunno which. I feel like apologizing to every friend I have for taking so long and talking so interminably about this relationship and its death or change spiral. But But.  You don;t owe anyone an explanation or excuse or reason for doing what needs doing.
 IME we (yes, the royal one) do this automatically, without thinking about it and it slows the process of moving through the thing we're trying to figure out EVERY DARN TIME.
it's the most significant bond I've had with any man in over 20 years, and there were so many confusing carrots hanging off my halter, that it's just going to take the time it takes.  Seeking/Avoidance forces are driving our lives and will as long as we get pushed and pulled by the fear and desire for comfort.  That might not make sense right now, but I don't edit my posts, bc I choose not to.  I know what it means and you can ask if you want clarification THAT FEELS WONDERFUL to just write and leave it behind without checking and changing, it truly does. 

I've decided I have my own permission to bore people. Sorry, dear Amazons. But thank you...more than you know!  Feel free to bore yourself further on my YARD thread.  It's it amazing?!?!?! It's GRAND!! Don't you apologize, ever again for penning your truth here, of all places, for these Amazons and the Amazons who come after.  Honestly, Hops. I remember when you told me to stop apologizing all the time....and you said other wise things, but at the time that was my take away.  Yet, we keep seeing lessons come round and round again and again, don't we?  !

hugs and love,
Hops

PS-- So I sent C a message explaining the incoherent connections (email? text? -NO- dating site?) were daunting and that I sympathize and he's off the hook if it's just too cumbersome to organize. He just replied and said he'd be on the train TOMORROW. I gently explained the concept of "not without notice, I have a life" (not in so many words) and we scheduled it for later this month. Hah. Fun I hope. I'm curious now, Hops. Just what DO you have going on tomorrow that can't bbe put off?  Do you want to meet this fellow?  Whatever you choose, it's OK and you don't owe anyone an explanation for your choices. 
Lighter


Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #826 on: August 04, 2021, 06:16:41 PM »
Thanks, (((((Lighter)))). Very much.

No, LOL, I really do not want to meet him tomorrow without notice, and I do have other things scheduled! I was agog that he is so master-of-the-universeful that he just decided he'd come and of course I'd be ready to hustle up and make it work! (I had asked him to pick a couple dates and let me know and I'd confirm one...guess he reads too fast). Aaagggh. Nope nope nope. I just laughed and then we both looked at calendars and picked a date that works for us both. Jeez! It's funny but also a pink flag. Not a very original one, and I'm looking forward to the evening anyway. Should be fun. (He also decided on his own that rather than take the morning train back, he'd stay the whole next day. I told him I hadn't counted on that and he said no worries. If I'm enjoying him on our date I'll meet him during the day and if not, he can amuse himself....)

My collection of entitled, powerful (but charming) men is swelling. Crazy.

Thanks especially for this:
Quote
If you want to think about it. Think.  If you want to putitdown.... PID.  If you want to pick it back up... PIBU.  And no excuses or explanations are necessary, ever, particularly to your friends.   You can calmly turn it over in your mind and see what's there, but you don't have to judge it

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #827 on: August 04, 2021, 07:58:43 PM »
I, right or wrong, get the sense the new guy felt you were brushing him off BC he failed to set a date and get his arse on the train and so just DID it out of panic. 

::shrug::.

Whatever happens, you're the Amazon Warrior Queen in your world.  He's no master of the universe outside his world.

You get to see if he's cool with that or not cool.  I say be yourself, without fail and see what happens.

Seek out the fun, even if there's no connection...... recoup whatever goodness is there. If you're involved, there will be goodness, IMO; )

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #828 on: August 04, 2021, 11:56:34 PM »
I have a plan!

I'm just going to channel the one in the middle, all the way through.
(Don't miss the very end...!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynR1XmQruoo

LOLOLOLOL

OMG, just watched it through again, and her father absolutely losing his MIND is just as amazing as she is. Future Amazon, no doubt! (Her, errr, "leadership" got me too.) Oh so funny and satisfying!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 05:39:19 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #829 on: August 05, 2021, 11:54:27 AM »
LOL....Amazon Hops rocking her middle, YES!  You never know what a master if his universe is looking for.  My B wanted to give and serve.....it was a struggle till I released my need to give all the time and relax into happy receiving.

You be you and see what chemistry is there or not there. 
Listen to your middle, Hops!

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #830 on: August 09, 2021, 10:20:31 PM »
C had to reschedule since his D is visiting, so will be here a week later. I don't feel frazzled any more. Calm, but recognize I am guarded. Will see how it goes.

M is getting anxious because I've backed off again. Is emailing me superficial silly things every day which yanks my brain back toward him; good news is that it's not working as well as it used to. He just wrote, have you decided about dinner at my house this week? (Third time he's asked, each time I said don't know yet.) So I replied that I can't come over to his house soon, not without talking about personal and vulnerable feelings I'm working through that are "not his favorite kinds of topics." And to let it settle a few more weeks because it won't always be painful. I think that's the truth.

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 10:33:35 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #831 on: August 13, 2021, 10:58:16 PM »
I think I'm done with M. Like, really done. No rage or anything, just acceptance. And this wave of detaching won't hurt anywhere near as much as the first grief did.

Despite my having spelled out for him so clearly that being around his family is painful for me, he ignored it. As I mentioned he tried to book my Tgiving with his sister. I said thank you but no, and repeated my reason. (He always goes, of course I understand completely and then proceeds to do whatever he wants anyway. That used to confused me like crazy, until the couples T pointed out the pattern: He says something so courteously acknowledging (Yes of course...) but switches and reframes or ignores immediately thereafter. So whatever I say, if it's contrary to the image he is fixed on of his goal, is like dust.

Anyhow, he just did it again (this time a stepson, lovely man, whom we spent time with at his home in Costa Rica). Sson is coming and M wants me to join them for dinner. Same restaurant as with his son when I first began to feel like an image prop. I re-sent him my simple statement about it being painful. He invites me two more times.

That all built up and reminded me SO clearly of being ignored other times and I realized that it can happen in our "just friendship" too and if I keep on companioning, I'm re-enacting what caused me to break up with him in the first place.

Told him so clearly but kindly and he replied that I'm "too self-absorbed." I'd just had it and exited with as much grace as I could manage.

Instead of sad, I feel mostly calmer, clearer. Looking forward to meeting new people and not recycling this endless stalemate.

I'll believe it when I continue it, but this does feel different.
Snip, snip and SNIP.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #832 on: August 14, 2021, 08:24:50 AM »
M just can't hold other people's needs in his mind very long, if he manages at all, IMO.

It's like watching a toddler very politely navigate his world, typically garnering praise for his ability with language and polite behavior, but he's still a toddler. He has no real ability to navigate the world consistently/safely/mindfully, bc..... toddler brain.

The lashing out at you... calling you self absorbed really is telling, isn't it?

And...

THE NERVE!

Had to be said and....

POT!

If toddler brain wanted and could handle adult reciprocal relationship...... M would.  He just can't and that's his best, I think.

Expectations adjusted successfully, Hops.

Well done.

Lets see what C 's about: )

Lighter






sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #833 on: August 14, 2021, 12:53:32 PM »
Methinks M doth project too much Hops.
Glad you're moving on.  ;)
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #834 on: August 14, 2021, 04:23:03 PM »
Thanks, guys. You are beyond kind to me.

Poet friend spit nails but bucked me up too.

It's really going to be okay.
And I figure being a sloooooooooow learner is better than not learning at all.

I am looking forward to meeting C! And guess what, also a writer not far away, and a woodworker! The website is coughing up more interesting oldies!

Hops outta da box! LOL.

love y'all--
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #835 on: August 14, 2021, 09:59:06 PM »
Grrr..... M accusing YOU of being self absorbed.... is... heinous fockery, in my book.

Gaslighting.  Trying to shame you into complianc while relegating your needs to the woodpile. 

Your outlandish need for reciprocity. 

Again....

THE NERVE!

He'd have you sitting, mute, at his table.  Yumming over all his delicious dinners..... hmmmmm....

I'm hungry.

It's just not enough and he's unwilling to give an inch. 

AN INCH. 

Willing to make you doubt yourself, make you stop asking for anything FOR yourself..... he wants you to sit there and look pretty and smart.  He wants a worthy prop to drop into his life, move out of his life, back in then out....
and you're not a prop, Hops.

Lighter




Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #836 on: August 15, 2021, 12:47:28 AM »
Lighter, were you ever a little girl named Johanna who really digs Aretha? LOL.

Thanks. Your indignation on my behalf is very affirming. Y'all been flies on the wall or something? (You and poet friend sound very similar!)

I think that when M is not getting what he wants, he does exactly what you described. But the rest of it is apt, too...it's really a dismissiveness that comes from entitlement. His whole long life. Somehow, he missed empathy training. Doesn't matter any more why (I suspect being parented by cooks and yanked from Costa Rica to Hollywood as a child while his mother drove around in her pink cadillac being eccentric....he finished raising himself and discovered intellect. Most of his joy since has been from that. Success, too.)

What you particularly highlight that's extra helpful right now, is showing me what over-compliance looks like, and in fact that's right. (I miss the food but it gave me something to do while mute...) Not to be too cruel, he did tell me cooking food is how he shows love, and to the degree he can, I believe sometimes it was that.

More to the point, about him tossing my needs into the woodpile and me daring to want reciprocity .... also true. But the good news is that I really did make a decision because those things kind of came utterly clear to me in the last week. It's not tenable to try to be his best friend while he refuses to acknowledge, ever, anything he also contributed to the relationship's problems. He just can't.

So I'm clear. I replied with both assertiveness and gratitude for the time when it felt very exciting to be "his person" and tried to put it all in a growth context, with understanding that we're very different humans and so it's best to let it go. By "it" I mean the close friendship he intended to resume with me in a couple months.

I've decided that will not be good for me in three months either and am letting it go permanently. Said so in so many words and explained that I'm filtering his emails now not to be spiteful but so I don't let myself get drawn back into arguing. It's done.

I think we both tried to be as gracious as we could so it wasn't a horrible ending. But it was an ending. Whew.

(Between Tupp giving him a proper arse-whipping and you calling him out on a billboard, he wouldn't dare try again. Poor guy. I do feel sorry for him, he's so trapped in himself. But I'm not fitting into his frame any more.)

On to the geezer hunt! And the rest of life too.

hugs
Hops





« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 12:54:18 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #837 on: August 15, 2021, 10:16:39 AM »
Phew!

I'm happy for you, that you may take on several options instead of just one during this next phase Hops. I think sometimes there is an unconscious reflex to closely attach when there is only one choice or option in your life at a time. And that may actually be bearable long-term and yet STILL not be completely what you want.

I'll bet you do your research, read reviews, and the long term reports when buying a car. Or making any other large significant investment. You take the car for a test-drive; see how it fits your unique requirements and driving style. What the fuel efficiency is, the safety features/record. We should do no less with those intimate relationships (knowing full well, it's not completely "knowable" what risk we're taking over time).

Remember my advice to Hol, when she was dating -- you have to kiss a lot of toads, before you find the frog who is really a prince. I have kissed a LOT of toads, LOLOLOLOLOL. I may have been a cheap date - but was never "easy". And over the course of "shopping", all those years, and even actually accepting certain vehicles... I kinda gained a new perspective about how important my participation, choice, discernment, and plain old druthers were to the whole process. It's a quiet and internal - and open - form of power. Not control - just not being at the mercy of my own foibles, appearances, conditioning, social pressure or relational pressure.

After all, we're making a choice that will be with us for years, right?
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #838 on: August 15, 2021, 11:45:12 AM »
Yup. In this chapter of life, choices do seem weightier.
Fewer big blocks of stretchy unstructured time are ahead to reboot and redo.

And you're right, Amber, doesn't matter if power is quiet, loud or manipulative, it's still power. And for that matter, it's responsibility and ethics too.

I think, not that I'm objective, that the religious training of my childhood was SO dark and intense that I almost over-empathize in my relationships, and don't realize until I'm pretty well in that it's got to be two-way for me to be able to hang in.

I agree that not focusing on one gent too fast or hard will be helpful too. Maybe nothing happens with any of them, or something does. I'm not going to obsess, but am going to keep that door open.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #839 on: August 15, 2021, 12:27:42 PM »
The synchronicity of a Poetry Daily selection can amaze me; it did today. Love this:

The Funeral

--Felicity Sheehy

What we learned the day of the service
was that the reception had been moved
out of the church galley down the hall
to the third-grade classroom, decorated
with cut-out Christs and handprint turkeys,
a motto hung over the door: Be Good.
The priest showed us the way, sweating
and swinging his bad leg, explaining
we'd thank him later for the air conditioning.
Inside, the desks were shoved to one wall,
and a fold-out table perched its legs
by the blackboard. We arranged the pictures
at the front of the room, where they looked
from their June barbecues and Florida vacations
at the concrete out the window, gently steaming.
Back in the church, the fans were running
so loudly we couldn't hear ourselves
and the readings evaporated in the rafters,
where the only things listening were the faces
of window saints. Towards the end, the priest
made a joke about the coolness of heaven.
We followed him back to the classroom,
which now held an array of danishes
and cardboard boxes of coffee ("Half-off
from TOPS," he said). I drank cup after cup
of decaf, lightening and lightening
and lightening them with cream, watching
the silent pictures watching us. How little we
had in common. Their whole world had ended,
while somewhere ours continued, past the flat
voices and the shuffle around the room, past
the borders of this town, where the fields fill
with the flashlights of so many people
looking for each other, flooding the skies
here, floors and floors beneath the stars.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."