Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 552256 times)

Phyll

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #840 on: August 16, 2021, 12:26:18 PM »
Dear Hero Members,

In reading your posts on Relationships I am struck by the supportive and caring relationships you have held with each other for so many years.  This is a gift to be grateful for.  You truly help each other navigate your relationships with others. 

I am so tired of hearing W tell me how self - (absorbed, centered, etc.... fill in the blank) I am.  I told him my decision of going to a funeral service for a family member and he is on a rampage. (See Coronavirus).

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #841 on: August 17, 2021, 10:33:45 PM »
And you're here now too, Phyl.

Maybe you'll weather things through a sea change with W, or weather a transition out.

Either way, you'll find good ears, thoughtful minds and kind hearts here.

hugs
Hops

[Added: Back in '07, Doc G clarified. By "main board" he meant this, the Message Board. Hope that helps. Here's the link.]
https://forum.voicelessness.com/index.php/topic,5545.0.html
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 07:51:01 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #842 on: August 24, 2021, 05:23:06 PM »
Update:

I am completely at peace.
I don't miss the relationship with M.
I am relieved I finally took a clear stand.
I wish him well and do think of him, without any yearning.

I hope he'll find what works for him.

I'm off to find what works for me.

Got back into more connection with church folks, have my date with C Thursday evening (and maybe a winery Friday), and also meeting the writer soon, and have a set date with the woodworker.

Wow.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #843 on: August 25, 2021, 07:05:41 AM »
Excellent Hops! I hope it's not too taxing physically or draining energy-wise for you. I wish you loads of fun!
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Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #844 on: August 25, 2021, 09:11:54 AM »
Thanks, Amber. I'll pace it out.

I think DC Alpha Man (C) may be overwhelming, so I'm proceeding with feet firmly on brake. Could be cultural, but he's fantasizing and I'm wary of a man getting all "dreamy" before we meet. He hasn't pestered me and calls earlier in the evening (finally) --we had one call recently to confirm date details, fair enough since for him it involves travel -- it's not as intrusive. He's been very slow to comprehend me not wanting to yak on the phone at length before we meet, but I'm being consistent.

The other two gents seem more earthbound, which is a good thing I think. Woodworker and I are meeting halfway (he's about 50 min away) at a casual restaurant and bringing our dogs. Writer and I haven't met yet; ball's in his court but he's in vigil for a grandbaby.

This is healthy stuff, Amber. Taking it lightly.

hugs
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #845 on: August 25, 2021, 11:58:16 AM »
I'm so pleased to read your updates, Hops!

And here comes lovely, cool weather to meet outdoors with your dogs....... patio restaurants and parks, even.

You sound so good!

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #846 on: August 25, 2021, 09:17:06 PM »
MAN, C is just not getting it! Or not listening. Or not comprehending.

I have no idea. But he just made an excuse to call AGAIN when I've said, I thought pretty directly, that I don't want to keep having phone conversations until we've actually met.

I just don't understand it. Maybe bonding over the phone sight unseen is his comfort zone. Maybe talking to a woman regularly makes him happy. Maybe he just can't understand why wait? No problem, lots of people don't have this boundary. But I do.

I just emailed him I'm not trying to be rude or unfriendly and do look forward to picking him up at the train tomorrow and having a nice dinner. I've already said that. Also said it's just not my preference and I can explain more when we meet. (Wish I didn't have to but it seems necessary.) It's almost spoiled the date before it happens.

Yikes. This may be The Date That Shouldn't Have Happened, but we'll see. He sounded positively wounded as he got off the phone -- this time when I picked up and it was him I said very directly, I got your email today and you offered to call with all the details, but I replied that I don't need more details now--did you get my reply? (He hadn't seen it, just had written again "We'll talk" -- when I don't want to keep talking now!) And I said, happy to be at the station tomorrow to pick you up. He kept saying, You busy? I finally said: C, I've tried to tell you several times that I prefer not to keep having phone conversations until after I've met someone in person, and you keep calling anyway (or something to that effect.)

He evidently heard the frustration in my voice and immediately said that's fine, sorry, I'll see you tomorrow.

Whatever the reason is for his lack of hearing/comprehension/acceptance of my preference, it's trashed the anticipation for me. It's a shame.

Now I'm having familiar thoughts about powerful male dynamos who simply cannot compute that they should respect and cooperate with a woman's clearly stated preference, rather than just keep doing the same thing over and over and over to get what they want. He really either doesn't get it, or can't comprehend it because his whole life he's never had to do that, or he believes repetition creates cooperation.

It's the other way around. Repetition makes me more resistant and uncomfortable because it feels like HOUNDING (maybe he thinks that it's flattering) and if I get a hint of similar attitude tomorrow evening, it'll be a one-off for sure. (I'm pretty certain the communication gap's too wide already but will try to enjoy it anyway.)

Feh. Grrr.

Yoicks,
Hops

PS At his age, it's also possible there's something cognitive going on. It's possible that he literally can't remember what I've said about repeated calls. If I figure out that's the case, I'll be kind to him but not encourage more. If it's physically not his fault I shouldn't be annoyed, just realize that with both geographical and mental distance, this won't be a relationship launch. I will have a lot of compassion for his situation if that's the case, but am too drained to volunteer for it.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 07:02:37 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #847 on: August 26, 2021, 02:30:04 PM »
Well, he emailed "I fully understand" and so forth.
He'd also said that at one other point.

So I still dunno, but at least courtesy is restored so the evening will maybe be okay.

Very strange panicky upset I'd felt about it for a bit; so reminiscent of how I'd feel when M would dismiss something I'd say that was important to me.

Hope it's just a misunderstanding or miscommunication but I'm likelier to believe it's what Lighter talks about -- the "first boundary breach." At least I'm alert to it and I intend to be completely direct. A natural consequence of this continual struggle to get C to hear or take in my preference is that I'm not as relaxed or inclined to trust him as I would've been if he'd respected (or understood) it.

So maybe that's the consequence, or depending how the evening goes, maybe that's the end of it (a consequence in itself). If he has a physical or cognitive reason he can't help, nothing to be upset about. I'll find out.

Maybe it's dregs of prosecutor behavior, too. Sheesh.

Whew. Thanks for listening,
Hops
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 02:38:38 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #848 on: August 26, 2021, 02:53:08 PM »
Oh Hops. Hugs.

You're right; I think, about not very many women making those kinds of preferences clearly known. He could be interpreting that as the opening gambit of a chase game - catch me if you can. Seeing it as a challenge he might be programmed to overcome it, ya know? Not seeing as what it was - your way of keeping things in your comfort zone, according to your rules - could just be inexperience with that approach.

Betcha a nice bourbon, that's what it is.

It could also be he's not used to hearing "no" ever. Caution is prudent, whatever it is, I think. Simple trick we used to use to get out of meetings we knew were going to be tediously, mind & butt-numbingly dull:

An hour or 90 minutes in, pre-arrange for a friend to text you. Excuse yourself to check the phone. Upon return, just say something you must deal with has come up and it's time to call it an evening. He probably knows that trick but it's a non-confrontational way out of a situation if it's getting uncomfortable. Otherwise, if everything's lovely, just say it was important but can wait.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #849 on: August 26, 2021, 03:25:07 PM »
Thanks, ((((Amber)))), I needed some input!

You might be right. The old pursue-until-you-win caveman, klonk-it-on-head-until-it-stops-resisting behavior. M did it verbally; exhausting. I could understand it from C's life context, especially from his aggressive-lawyer-millionaire-advisingCongress kind of past. Bully for him. May be naive to expect that in a 70ish former prosecutor, I'd find the mellow mellenial-feminist-inside-a-70ish y/o I actually need!

Hah. And HAH.

I'll enjoy dinner anyway, I imagine. If continuing is for me a No Thank You, just hope he'll accept it pronto. (I can learn to block numbers if I have to.)

I don't need the texting ruse to leave if I gotta leave. If he needs a cab, he can afford one. I AM JOHANNA! (If you didn't watch that video I posted, pleeez do...!)

hugs
HOps
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #850 on: August 26, 2021, 06:53:32 PM »
I hope you can keep an open mind and remain emotionally distanced from the date, Hops.

Whether this guy is used to speaking, not texting and e mailing.....
whether he's excited and unable to grasp a potential date/mate ISN'T as excited as he is.....
whether he's been raised to be deaf to a woman's thoughts, preferences and needs......
is up in the air.

It will be what it is and you don't have to have a terrible evening whatever the case is.  It's just a short while.  You may excuse yourself at any time, sans excuses.  You'll be in public, ordering good food....... just release expectation and get curious as you can, is my advice.

::fingers crossed you at least like the guy::.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #851 on: August 26, 2021, 11:05:09 PM »
It was pleasant.
I had fun.
Talk was lively and interesting.

He was a Ecuadoran who looks Irish, quite a family story (Dad was dying of TB in Ecuador and mother, fearing for how to feed her kids, said her farewell and went to NYC where his aunts were to sponsor her) etc. She plugged him into a Catholic school and went to work in a clothing factory. Tremendous drive. He delivered papers and made it through various state schools to law school...eventually a Big Cheese. Interesting life path, for sure (with the weird echoes to M's I expected, but fortunately not quite the same).

I found him kind of sweet in person. Still not sure I want a suitor but if I still want to in the morning, I said I might take him to a winery. (He'd already added another evening to his itinerary but I'm not committing to that--he didn't ask.)

Pretty sure we can enjoy a few more hours' talk while the weather's good and we can be outside. Anything more complicated (like me heading to DC soon) I'm probably not in the mood for.

No damage, no terror. Just a light evening and mostly good vibes. I did assert myself several times in no faint terms. Him: I'm going to send you a chapter of my memoir....(like so many people I meet who know I edit). Me: I will not be your editor, ever. Him: Not even for money?  Me: I hated my career writing/editing for other people's agendas. I took my talent back and will not use it that way again.

Sigh. I noted the phrasing: "I'm going to send you...." rather than "May I send you....". Sheesh. A lot of people believe that anyone who can write/edit wants to put energy into their personal project -- it's like the doctor at the cocktail party who gets asked for medical advice. Same thing; I don't take it personally. Saying no just feels great.

All survived. Maybe we'll be friends of a sort. Dunno, not worried about it. Whew.

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 12:25:29 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #852 on: August 27, 2021, 08:21:25 AM »
Glad the first glimpse into what he's really like was pleasant and painless Hops. Negotiations seem to have gone well.

;)
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Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #853 on: August 27, 2021, 10:53:11 AM »
Just chiming in really quickly, Hopsie, but your situation just now rang a bell with my recent conversation with T.  I was talking to her about my difficulties with people and relationships in general and she's suggested to me that I put people in categories and keep them for that purpose only - this one's a good laugh and good for coffee chat but I wouldn't discuss x with her, this one's good at advice regarding y but doesn't understand z so I won't discuss z with her, and so on.  I just wondered if that would apply to the early getting to know you stuff with current chaps - getting to a point of, okay, this one is interesting and funny but I'm not getting the zing so this could just be 'dinner once a month' man, this one understood more but I didn't get any romantic thing, he could become 'meet up for a friendly chat' once a man and so on (until Mr 'Ticks All The Important Boxes' comes along).

"I'm going to send you" would have put me off as well, and I don't know about you but I feel like that forces me into something more assertive when I wouldn't necessarily want to be like that?  If the conversation naturally filtered around to "how did you find your editing career to be?" and you could then explain more casually you didn't enjoy it and the next question is then an easier "would you look over something I've written as a favour?", I don't know, I would find that easier and more natural.  I don't know if that's how you feel as well.  I'm glad you've got together anyway and I must admit to feeling relieved that the M spell broke and those heart strings aren't being tugged any more.  I'm glad you've got other irons in the fire, too :) xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #854 on: August 27, 2021, 12:34:09 PM »
I like your T's advice, Tupp. It doesn't cover rando-miseries like a laundry room dowager empress, but should cover a LOT of people.

And it's good advice for me too, in terms of men. Thank you. C is smart, interesting, and less pompous than M was. Seems very stubborn and clearly used to making unilateral decisions, so a bigger relationship would likely be a recipe for frustration. But he is present, asked me questions, and also isn't whining about not getting his wish. (Today I decided not to get together -- he independently decided to be here another day and evening and I'd been clear from the get-go I couldn't commit to more time than yesterday's dinner as a first date. So he's on his own today. But because he's older and uses a cane, tomorrow I'm going to take him to breakfast and then to his train. That feels right because he did made the effort to travel to meet. I just don't want to go out today--at my heat-tolerance limit.)

As long as he doesn't start regular evening phone calls, I'd be content to be his friend. His phone personality is not comfortable for me, is all. Not his fault. And I do think a bit of memory problem may explain why he kept it up. A lifetime habit of grabbing the phone whenever you feel the urge? Doesn't matter; my challenge is just to be boundary-consistent. I may have to invest in Caller ID, which annoys me. But would make sense. (I have an eccentric system worked out with local friends: don't text/call my cell, email is great, leave messages on my landline any time.)

You got it right about the editing. It's a lifetime pet peeve but I've learned to be assertive about it. It startles people but it's amazing how many amateur writers instantly assume that my greatest delight would be to pore over their work. No disprespect to them because I love and support the writing urge in anyone; I'm just not giving it away any more OR doing it for pay. It belongs to me now. I built up decades of resentment that may leak out because I hated 90% of my jobs -- writing feature articles and press releases and selling/marketing stuff and basically whoring out writing and editing because those were the only high-end skills I had to offer. I never forgot the crestfallen look on my sculptor ex-H's face when he came home from the stone company office job one day and said, I feel like I'm forced to carve ashtrays all day. It was practically killing his spirit to work there but he had no choice. (He's been in a secure staff University job for years now that he likely enjoys more.) My creative writing withered on the shelf for so many years, what with family work on top of survival work. I often wonder how many artists/writers, especially women, have had the same experience. I'm LUCKY and privileged in a zillion ways but used to fantasize about moving to Ireland, which subsidizes artists and writers (or used to). Rambling, rambling.

C wasn't offended when I made that one-sentence-speech, fortunately. It just came out honest. You're right too, that if he'd posed it as a question instead of a presumption, it would've been easy to explain. I wouldn't mind READING his first memoir chapter --it'd be very interesting. Just don't wanna edit it.

Meanwhile, I just wrote a piece for the church blog about fear (isolation coming again this winter due to Covid, and the state of the world) and a lot of stuff about culture changes, social media and elders. Wound it up with an invitation for anyone feeling lonely to let me know, and I'd gladly call or email. Then: "And now I'm not feeling lonely any more -- funny how that works!"

I've proposed to the minister a plan for reaching out to isolated elder-elders. My friend at the church died alone in his apartment. I fear others might too, and as a community, it's way too easy for elders living alone to go neglected. I'm clearly projecting my own fears but also know that others are suffering loneliness in silence (me, I get naked with my feelings in public -- the piece will go on the church blog -- and I'm okay with that). In that sense, I feel it's a contribution and she did too. Wants to meet with me to talk about a plan, and I've volunteered to coordinate it.

Yup, the M spell is just gone. Blessizheart. I miss parts of it but on balance feel almost complete relief. I do worry about the upcoming winter, but hanging onto that lopsided friendship is not going to be the right way to get through it.

Have missed your voice and crave your updates, Tupp. Hope the settling in process is continuing in peace and I know you'll need to rest a LOT before you feel normal again. I was telling poet friend, who was feeling brittle and exhausted, that I think she should look at six months to a year after her overwhelming effort to find a place and move herself and the partner...before it's purely home, comforting and relaxing. If she sees it as a normal recovery thing that just takes a while, it may be easier to climb through the hard moments.

Hugs to you and NY Son,
Hops
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 04:29:41 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."