Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves

[Twoapenny]

I feel that I need a thread to keep me focused on what I feel I need to work on so that I don't keep getting distracted when other things come up and so that I've got some sort of anchor point to come back to when I start to lose my way.  I hesitate to call it a gratitude or positivity thread (I've gone right off all that recently) but I think I need a place where I can put down what I'm doing that's constructive and (hopefully) focusing me on getting towards a better relationship with myself and with other people.  And, of course, it would be lovely if any of you wanted to join me with your own care of self/care with others type things as well

So - to start off.  I want to keep reminding myself that it's reciprocal relationships that I want and not to get bogged down by the ones that aren't.  I met a friend yesterday and it was lovely, but it was initiated by me.  I want to try and put that into the 'it was a nice few hours' box and not get weighed down by anything else about it.

I am enjoying the three groups I've started going to - the parents/carers at both special needs related groups are lovely and I definitely want to keep those up.  The people at the sustainability group are lovely and I also want to get more involved in that, particularly their allotment project which sounds like fun.  I've booked son and I up for a drumming group in a couple of weeks' time; I've spoken to the chap and he seems nice and is happy about son going so that is another good thing to focus on.

We have an appointment today with the osteopath, who is lovely, and then we have the cinema and the staff there are always nice.  We might catch the bus; I'm not sure about timings yet but will have a look and see what we can do.

I am trying to look after myself better.  I was awake at 4.30am this morning and although I haven't managed to get back to sleep, I have done things in bed rather than getting up.  I think I need to spend more time sitting in bed and less time sitting in front of the telly.  I miss reading; I don't do it anywhere near as much as I used to so that is also my aim for today.

I think that will do for now   Feel free to chime in with any things you are doing for yourself that you are finding helpful and making life smiley xx

[Hopalong]

Lovely thread idea, Tupp!

It's wonderful how you were able to look at a very nice few hours with a friend (that you initiated) and see them as "a very nice few hours." Over time, with one person or another, a few will begin to take a more solid shape. And there's NOTHING wrong with discussing reciprocity in a calm way with new people.

Just as a getting-to-know-you subject people sometimes talk about. Every person you meet has had some situation in their life that has felt out of balance in that way. Every person you meet has felt hurt or lonely or left out sometime.

Sometimes these days when I meet a new person, we can find ourselves talking about making friends as adults, and how that's different for older people. I'll say something like, "I know people can make new friends at any age, but I've noticed it's harder now that I'm XX years old and in a new place, with a dependent adult child. I've really enjoyed meeting you and the XX group folks!" And then in a bit you could say, "One thing I've figured out is I want reciprocal friendships in my life. Not 50-50, nobody can manage that...but enough so you know the interest is mutual. You know what I mean?"

(I promise, the other person will say, Yes...) Then, back to you...

"How about you, how does that work in your life?"

Some people will be open and even eager to talk about friendships. I think it's especially helpful to talk about it consciously before a pattern is set. Practice on the new people! If someone seems to avoid the subject, then no harm no foul...they're just maybe not a good candidate for building a reciprocal connection.

I'm excited for you Tupp. Remember never to take any individual event as proving a global negative. Let it keep coming and going with more people, and expect more and less effectiveness. It's the pattern you're changing, not the particulars.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, Hops   I think those are good conversations to have with people as I get to know them and then I think, once I've got a bit more of a social life in place and some more people in my life (casual or otherwise) I might feel braver about having the conversation with current friends as well.  Sort of feel I need a bit of a safety net before risking laying myself bare and the response not being good   But all steps in the right direction and I think those sort of conversations with new people are a good way to know whether to bare a bit more or that's enough   I do tend to focus more on the negatives than the positives, I think, which is why I thought a separate constructive thread would keep me focused on what's going well and what I can do that's constructive (rather than wallowing).

So - we've been to the library - the staff are lovely and have let my son join in their reading programme, even though technically he's too old.  But they know how much he loves to read and that his reading level is lower than his age so they're doing a programme where the kids go in and chat to one of the librarians about the books they've read.  They keep a chart and get badges as they get to certain numbers so he's almost at badge two   They're really sweet and he really enjoys it so that was great.  Then he had his osteopathy appointment and she's absolutely lovely and has gifted him a stereo!  She's having a clear out and it's surplus to requirements so I'm collecting it for him on Friday (he's chuffed to bits).  We've been to the cinema and the staff in there are lovely as well and got us the last two tickets for the show he wants to see tomorrow night so that's also been great.  And my nice, reciprocal friend has been in touch for a catch up.  So lots of good things - I'm tired but in a good way.  Time for a bath soon.

[Meh]

It sounds like you are doing A LOT of social activity!

Reciprocal relationships is something that I can't say much about really. I rarely take a lot of initiate because I feel lazy or tired. One old coworker kept asking me to go to the gym with her but god I didn't feel like it. When I do go to the gym alone it was not a social type of activity for me. I like to slink around do my thing shower and leave the gym.

Another friend I go to the movies with a lot. Most of the time it's me pestering her to get out and go. I don't feel bad about being the person to initiate. I think she likes going to do stuff even if she doesn't initiate it. She is a real dorky odd ball and I think I feel most comfortable hanging out with her because maybe she doesn't have any expectations... IDK  She was one of my nicest and friendliest coworkers even though people don't get her. So I decided to try keeping up with her.

Maybe some people just aren't initiators.

Then another older co-worker of mine who I really like asked me to meet her for coffee sometime, I just haven't picked up the ball. Why?  Because I'm lazy? I don't even know why. I am sort of stressed and pre-occupied with the things "I SHOULD" do this week. I will meet her eventually.

Hum. Fug.... Now I am thinking about how I should make a greater effort.

I wouldn't say any of these people are close. I guess I'm not really expecting sister or high school close. Sigh and shrug.

[Twoapenny]

It sounds like you are doing A LOT of social activity!

Reciprocal relationships is something that I can't say much about really. I rarely take a lot of initiate because I feel lazy or tired. One old coworker kept asking me to go to the gym with her but god I didn't feel like it. When I do go to the gym alone it was not a social type of activity for me. I like to slink around do my thing shower and leave the gym.

Another friend I go to the movies with a lot. Most of the time it's me pestering her to get out and go. I don't feel bad about being the person to initiate. I think she likes going to do stuff even if she doesn't initiate it. She is a real dorky odd ball and I think I feel most comfortable hanging out with her because maybe she doesn't have any expectations... IDK  She was one of my nicest and friendliest coworkers even though people don't get her. So I decided to try keeping up with her.

Maybe some people just aren't initiators.

Then another older co-worker of mine who I really like asked me to meet her for coffee sometime, I just haven't picked up the ball. Why?  Because I'm lazy? I don't even know why. I am sort of stressed and pre-occupied with the things "I SHOULD" do this week. I will meet her eventually.

Hum. Fug.... Now I am thinking about how I should make a greater effort.

I wouldn't say any of these people are close. I guess I'm not really expecting sister or high school close. Sigh and shrug.

Aw, your dorky odd ball friend sounds great, G, film buddies are always good, it's nice having someone to chat to about the film afterwards.  Yes, some people do initiate more than others, you've got a lot on your plate at the minute so maybe you're just not in the right head space for meeting people for coffee at the minute.  I don't think you're lazy, you've got a lot whirring through your mind and it can be hard to focus on social stuff when you've got lots of proper stuff to do.  We have got a lot of social stuff going on!  I kind of feel like I need to push myself at the minute and I find it easier to get out and about over the summer when the weather's better (bad weather is a good excuse for me to stay indoors and eat biscuits).  So I'm trying to get myself into lots of good routines now so I can stick to it over the winter.  Plus where we live now is so beautiful, there's literally a dozen beaches within an hour of my house and a lot of them are quiet and stunning rather than packed full of tourist type beaches.  You'll be up for meeting your other co-worker once some other things have settled for you a bit, G, I sure.

[Twoapenny]

I'm practising taking time to respond - that's my reciprocal relationship with myself at the minute   A friend got in touch about meeting up; I do want to see her but the last three times I've tried to meet up she's either not got back to me or she's got back to me after the thing I invited her to has happened   So I do want to see her but my natural urge (on getting her text) is to say, "yes, of course, when are you free?" and arrange what I'm doing to suit.  I don't really want to do that so much any more so I'm holding off replying and I actually think I want to spend some time resting up at the moment and getting a bit of work done on the house.  So I might give myself a couple of weeks grace and tell her I'll give her a shout towards the end of the month or something.

[sKePTiKal]

Having a "social life" requires (sometimes) being a master schedule juggler. At least, if you're participating in the decision-making. Sometimes, I find that to be just "one more thing I have to do"... and working on a future schedule, I'm unsure of committing myself - because something all-consuming for me might come up, I might be super-tired at that time and just need to veg, etc.

I only have one friend at the moment that we even try to schedule things; and it usually involves her coming out here to get away for a weekend. I'm not enjoying any of my time going "over the mountain" and the city I used to live in, at all. I'm even on "will call" for my hair appt now.

I kinda like the arrangement Hol has with her friends. They pick a standard day, time & place for a group of them to get together over coffee at a cafe. People show up as they can - or don't - as the case may be. Even former house guest is part of that group now. It doesn't replace the one on one interactions, but is just always there, for people looking to connect.

I self-validate in the process that happens when I'm looking at things I want done - go do them - and then enjoy the improvement. There are only a few people that I actively reach out to these days, when I just need someone to lean on and moan to over the normal life-stuff. And I appreciate that everyone I know is mostly really busy with their own family, busy lives, work on themselves or physical training... so I may just "check in" from time to time, as I think about them and that seems to be quite enough "socializing" for me.

With Holly here, and Steve here a lot too... and their busy schedules, I'm always having to coordinate what's going on with dog sitting, holding down the fort here, etc. Sometimes they're not here at all for days... and I have some solitude back. But we just go with the flow and it's all pretty casual and easy.

[Meh]

A big part of meeting up is how close or how easy it is to get together. I think this is why people sometimes become friends with neighbors is because they are right there nearby. When people are young and in school together they are there nearby. One of the smaller towns I lived in had such a strong community vibe because it was a college town but also because it's easier to get to know people in certain areas.

I dread getting on the bus and venturing out into the chaos if I don't have to. I mean once I do it I'm glad I got out.

Sometimes staying home is productive!! We just can't do it all the time I guess. 

[Twoapenny]

A big part of meeting up is how close or how easy it is to get together. I think this is why people sometimes become friends with neighbors is because they are right there nearby. When people are young and in school together they are there nearby. One of the smaller towns I lived in had such a strong community vibe because it was a college town but also because it's easier to get to know people in certain areas.

I dread getting on the bus and venturing out into the chaos if I don't have to. I mean once I do it I'm glad I got out.

Sometimes staying home is productive!! We just can't do it all the time I guess.

Yes practicalities of getting together can always make things difficult, although equally keeping in touch can be by phone or email if the physical distance makes things difficult.  Neighbours can be great or you might want to hide from them lol.  We've had some lovely ones and some awful ones.  The current lot are not too bad

[Twoapenny]

Having a "social life" requires (sometimes) being a master schedule juggler. At least, if you're participating in the decision-making. Sometimes, I find that to be just "one more thing I have to do"... and working on a future schedule, I'm unsure of committing myself - because something all-consuming for me might come up, I might be super-tired at that time and just need to veg, etc.

I only have one friend at the moment that we even try to schedule things; and it usually involves her coming out here to get away for a weekend. I'm not enjoying any of my time going "over the mountain" and the city I used to live in, at all. I'm even on "will call" for my hair appt now.

I kinda like the arrangement Hol has with her friends. They pick a standard day, time & place for a group of them to get together over coffee at a cafe. People show up as they can - or don't - as the case may be. Even former house guest is part of that group now. It doesn't replace the one on one interactions, but is just always there, for people looking to connect.

I self-validate in the process that happens when I'm looking at things I want done - go do them - and then enjoy the improvement. There are only a few people that I actively reach out to these days, when I just need someone to lean on and moan to over the normal life-stuff. And I appreciate that everyone I know is mostly really busy with their own family, busy lives, work on themselves or physical training... so I may just "check in" from time to time, as I think about them and that seems to be quite enough "socializing" for me.

With Holly here, and Steve here a lot too... and their busy schedules, I'm always having to coordinate what's going on with dog sitting, holding down the fort here, etc. Sometimes they're not here at all for days... and I have some solitude back. But we just go with the flow and it's all pretty casual and easy.

Lol, that's almost the complete opposite of what I have to do, Skep!  Son's situation means I have to plan a month at a time to find a way of fitting everything in without him becoming too tired or overwhelmed.  So I book out college days first, then regular activities, then health care related appointments (which can really tire him out or really pep him up depending on what it is!), then days out or get togethers that he wants to get along to.  Then I have to try and organise the day to day stuff around that, like grocery shopping, bank, post office and anything else like that and my health related appointments.  Then there's the never ending paperwork; I have to look at when deadlines are and work back from that so I know what I need to get done by which day and I'm still trying to gather information to see if I can prove he suffered a brain injury during the birth and sue (we've tried twice and failed, I'm hoping third time lucky!).  We've still got a few years before the deadline for that but soomer rather than later would be good.  And then there's the bits like organising birthday cards and presents for people and the odds and ends that come along.  Then the daily stuff with him at home, like physio, working on his skills like telling the time and money, working on his speech and getting him doing the household stuff.  It's such a colossal amount of work and fitting it all in is like a military operation! Lol

[Hopalong]

I can't even comprehend how you keep your two-person crew doing what should take a battalion, Tupp.

You are a freaking HERO.
I mean this completely.
What you do day to day and year over year is genuinely heroic.

You deserve far more than a medal. I'm glad you're as determined as the bravest Marine, and keep getting it, piece by piece. You amaze me. Awe me!

The only thing I can compare it to is my decade with my (heavy) mother, and that had an end date.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I can't even comprehend how you keep your two-person crew doing what should take a battalion, Tupp.

You are a freaking HERO.
I mean this completely.
What you do day to day and year over year is genuinely heroic.

You deserve far more than a medal. I'm glad you're as determined as the bravest Marine, and keep getting it, piece by piece. You amaze me. Awe me!

The only thing I can compare it to is my decade with my (heavy) mother, and that had an end date.

love
Hops

Aw, thanks Hops, I don't feel heroic, just tired!  Lol, I am trying to focus on self care though.  I went to the nice parents group this morning and they are lovely, I felt really nice when I came out of there and they're organising some days out for all of us to go along to over the summer holidays which I'm really looking forward to.  I attracted cats as I walked into town lol, some are so friendly and one little chap started to follow me quite a lot of the way, I was a bit worried he might get lost but he turned back after a while.  I did actually sit and put my feet up this afternoon before I fetched son from college and I'm meeting the social worker tomorrow to go through some possible support options - it's not a huge amount at this stage but it's a start and I think we can add to things as we go along.  I'm getting my back fixed on Friday so only one more day of hobbling about and the acupuncture is helping my hormones; I'd usually be on my knees at this point in the month but I don't feel too bad.  I think the reason I really feel like I need those reciprocal relationships now is because there's so much to organise and fit in anyway, having to keep reaching out to people and organising them as well is just getting a bit much.  So I'm really glad that these two groups I've joined are proactive and other people are doing the organising - I'm happy to help out but it's nice not to have to be the one doing all the work. 

It must have been hard looking after your mum.  It does take a real toll on your life, everything you do has to be put on hold and the emotional side of it can be hard, particularly in those situations where you might be looking after someone who hasn't always been nice (thankfully I don't have that with son, he's always been so lovely).  And other people aren't always very understanding either, I think caring for someone when they're sick or disabled is often something that people only get if they've done it as well (like so many other things in life, I suppose, it's hard to imagine some things if you've not been through them) xx

[sKePTiKal]

Tupp, maybe it's because I know I have times like this, but I'm hearing that you kinda need someone to take care of YOU for a change. Someone to schedule, manage the details - and son's needs - and allow you time/space to just enjoy, relax, be with others. It might not need to be a long time; maybe just dinner and part of an evening. Or a Saturday afternoon.

My deal is, that it's really easy for me to fall into the old habits of taking care of everyone, making things "just so", and nice so everyone can have a good time. Or just working around here on the chores and dealing with life stuff even, can be enough to send me into that "I wish I had a mommy to take of ME" state.

Lately, I've been holding down the kitchen for dinner for months now... with various people in/out of my place, like Steve and the house guest... and even my friends... that I'm in the mood to just go on strike and if anyone wants dinner THEY can make it. LOL. But you know what? They CAN and DO, and do a mighty fine job of it too. I just have to recognize that I don't always have to be the one "doing" and "in charge" and "responsible". And everything's wonderful and just fine.

I honestly need that from time to time, but often when I'm in that space I don't know how to ask for it. It's really no imposition for others to do this from time to time; we're not being "needy" out of the ordinary - everyone kinda needs this periodically. But somehow, I got the idea in my head that "it was my JOB to do this" and "never, ever ask for anything for ME".

My mom had a lot to with me getting that idea, I think. And it's a whole neural pathway of it's own now... but ya know what? It doesn't have to STAY that way.

[Twoapenny]

Tupp, maybe it's because I know I have times like this, but I'm hearing that you kinda need someone to take care of YOU for a change. Someone to schedule, manage the details - and son's needs - and allow you time/space to just enjoy, relax, be with others. It might not need to be a long time; maybe just dinner and part of an evening. Or a Saturday afternoon.

My deal is, that it's really easy for me to fall into the old habits of taking care of everyone, making things "just so", and nice so everyone can have a good time. Or just working around here on the chores and dealing with life stuff even, can be enough to send me into that "I wish I had a mommy to take of ME" state.

Lately, I've been holding down the kitchen for dinner for months now... with various people in/out of my place, like Steve and the house guest... and even my friends... that I'm in the mood to just go on strike and if anyone wants dinner THEY can make it. LOL. But you know what? They CAN and DO, and do a mighty fine job of it too. I just have to recognize that I don't always have to be the one "doing" and "in charge" and "responsible". And everything's wonderful and just fine.

I honestly need that from time to time, but often when I'm in that space I don't know how to ask for it. It's really no imposition for others to do this from time to time; we're not being "needy" out of the ordinary - everyone kinda needs this periodically. But somehow, I got the idea in my head that "it was my JOB to do this" and "never, ever ask for anything for ME".

My mom had a lot to with me getting that idea, I think. And it's a whole neural pathway of it's own now... but ya know what? It doesn't have to STAY that way.

Yes, absolutely that, Skep, desperate for others to take on the work but no-one else will do it and that's kind of the nub of the problem.  And not just that no-one else will do anything with or for son, but most people I know don't even bother to get back to me when I contact them or contact me first to ask if I want to get together, or just to have a chat and a catch up.  I think that's the main thing that I need to change but........ I can't change other people and that's what's difficult.  Social services have agreed to put in ten hours of support a week during the holidays but that still leaves me responsible for 144 hours term time and 158 in the holidays.  And much of the time he's doing other things I spend on the paperwork battles to get him the help he needs (which he still isn't getting two years since I started doing all this).  I am trying to get to the beach for an hour a day because it makes me feel a lot better and he's on half term next week so I don't need to worry about getting up in the mornings and that will help, but other than that literally no-one else is there.  When I had to go to court for his education package hearing all I needed in terms of care was someone to have him for a couple of hours before college and maybe a couple of hours afterwards.  But no-one could do it so I had to take him to my sister who's a two hour drive away and we had to go up the night before, stay over and then I had to drive back down to the court after I dropped him off and then drive back again afterwards to collect him before driving him home.  The time I spent driving was more time than I actually needed someone to have him but there wasn't anyone to do it.  Even with getting social workers involved I've still had to sort out which activities he can do, organise carers for him, put a costing package together and then meet with the social worker three times before she goes to the funding panel (who might say no) and then she comes back to me to tell me whether or not we can go ahead.  That alone has taken eleven months to get organised and the earliest it will be in place will be early July.  There have been umpteen phone calls and emails in between and that's just the social care; the education battle is still ongoing (two years in), we're probably going to have to go back to court and I haven't got started on the health care battle yet!  It's just so colossal and unless you can pay lawyers to do all of it there's no option but to do it all yourself.  I can get legal aid for the actual court process but it only deals with filing paperwork; I have to represent him myself so I still need to know everything and argue a case for him.  It's done on purpose to make people give up (and it works!).  But as we've no plan B I can't give up otherwise he won't get any help at all.  It's an awful system and one I'd be very glad to be out of xx

[Hopalong]

Braaaaaaaaaavooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
AMBER!