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FACING CODEPENDENCE, What it is, Where it comes from, How it Sabotages our lives

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Meh:
Sigh, so would enmeshment be the same as non individuated.

Hopalong:
I think so, G...
the words I ponder when I get the red alert about codependence are things like fusion, merging, that kind of feeling.

Sometimes romance goes that way for those vulnerable to codependency, losing the sense of self. For me, the CoD red alert particularly is triggered by a sense that the other is offloading self-soothing onto me. IOW, do you get appealed to to help them manage overwhelming emotions, positive or negative? Do you suddenly feel that you're tending a child?

I have stronger boundaries and willingness to say No than I had when I was younger, so I'm not terrified of it now. But in the day, I'd say my codependency poisoned my chances for healthy relationships over and over. I'd get so preoccupied with someone else's needs that I'd totally sacrifice my own.

Hops

Twoapenny:

--- Quote from: Hopalong on August 22, 2019, 08:42:48 AM ---I think so, G...
the words I ponder when I get the red alert about codependence are things like fusion, merging, that kind of feeling.

Sometimes romance goes that way for those vulnerable to codependency, losing the sense of self. For me, the CoD red alert particularly is triggered by a sense that the other is offloading self-soothing onto me. IOW, do you get appealed to to help them manage overwhelming emotions, positive or negative? Do you suddenly feel that you're tending a child?

I have stronger boundaries and willingness to say No than I had when I was younger, so I'm not terrified of it now. But in the day, I'd say my codependency poisoned my chances for healthy relationships over and over. I'd get so preoccupied with someone else's needs that I'd totally sacrifice my own.

Hops

--- End quote ---

That's pretty much the same for me, Hops, all of my relationships over the years, platonic or romantic (and even work related, to a certain extent) have been bound in me doing for someone else.  I think it's why I've struggled so much, because once I put a boundary in place the person vanishes and I find that rejection of 'me as I am rather than me who can run around after you' really hard to cope with.  I think it can be hard to get a balance - helping others out is an intrinsic part of being human, I feel.  But we do need to be careful who we help, how often and what we do - and perhaps it's what we do that's the most important part?  As you say, feeling like you need to parent someone is exhausting and there is a line between supporting and enabling, loving closeness and suffocating closeness and all those other things.  It's a balancing rope for us all to walk on! We're doing okay though, I think? xx

sKePTiKal:
Hops you said that very well. And Tupps is right about how hard it is find that line between caring and being empathetic - and being co-dependent instead.

I guess from where I sit at the moment, I don't want to avoid ALL situations where I'm listening to someone else's problem - Buck, for instance - and I'm being asked to care, and even maybe help defuse some intense feelings through conversation or suggest solutions. It helps a great deal, that he does the same for me too when I need it. So that's more give & take, than co-dependency, is what I'm currently thinking.

Now, if it's something that only occurs one way, say me to him and it's happening on almost a daily basis... then, that fits what I think I understand about co-dependency. Especially when that activity seems to be a primary condition for the relationship to exist or continue.

Enmeshment, I think I have to revisit definitions and examples. For the time being, my understanding is that if I no longer have my own space/identity within the relationship... then we could be said to be enmeshed. This happens a good bit in a co-dependent relationship, as I understand it, but it seems to be two separate things altogether. And then, there's the whole "two into one" or creating an "us"... which technically speaking is a lessor degree of enmeshment, but is also the lifeblood of having a relationship... and again there has to be a line somewhere between what's healthy and positive; versus something that's decidedly not good for one or both people.

It sure seems like to avoid co-dependency and associated ills, one almost has let go any romanticism. And that can't possibly be "right".

If all that's clear as mud (not you, mud!) that's because I really question my understanding of definitions, diagnosis of the issue and criteria for same, and whether or not the whole "issue" can be over-simplified and "one size fits all" INaccurately. Perhaps what is co-dependent for one person, isn't for another in a different situation. THEN, I need to know what the difference is... and why.

Hopalong:

--- Quote ---It sure seems like to avoid co-dependency and associated ills, one almost has let go any romanticism. And that can't possibly be "right".
--- End quote ---

Amber, I feel okay with occasional deep declarations of very deep feeling and/or commitment, because the romantic intensity fits that moment. Beyond that though, I prefer what I might call "light romance." I'd like it more often to be on a lighter level because if there's a kind of intense declaration daily, or always throbbing in the background, I hear the CoD sirens going off in me.

M is very prone to constant intensity, hyperbole about his feelings, hyper-romanticism and grandiose extreme declarations. I don't blame him for it (it's natural to his personality) but it's not a good guidepost for me. I tune in to what he does more than what he says, because he's so over-the-top verbally that I almost have to automatically "dilute" some of what he's saying.

I don't want to be the ultimate cosmically star-crossed lovers, though I'm loving having him to love and feeling loved back. We're heading into the more pragmatic planning period of how to merge our lives, and I think that helps too, get us more into reality-love.

He doesn't buy me flowers or do many traditionally romantic things (poor guy tried to buy me pearls, remember?). But he will unexpectedly send me a goofy dog greeting card. I admired his summer shirt (collarless, flax) a lot the other day and he ordered me two in my own size. THAT is amazing, for me. And the meals he cooks? They feels like love! Tonight it was scallops and shrimp with bok choy, broccolini, mushrooms, peppers, onions...loads of vegs because he knows I crave them, and brown rice, same. Plus a peach and rhubard compote. Drooool.

I'm definitely codependent about his cooking.

Fatly,
Hops

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