Mindfulness and codependence thread

[lighter]

One of the first things T taught me to do in her office was to return to my breath, cross my arms, and pat myself on the shoulders, left, right, left, right, and so on... like slowly patting a baby on the back, comforting them..... and I forgot about that one. 

In this case, we worked on the people-pleasing behaviors, and where they came from.  Once the emotions were present, we put the story on the shelf, crossed arms, began patting, and I thought of the most loving mother archetype, which for me wasn't a Saint, or Mother Theresa, but was someone I knew in real life. I pictured her face, and being in the room with her, the smells, the sights, seeing myself in her eyes, what exactly we were doing in that moment, and how exactly it FELT to be there.... visiting these things over and over, and it was super comforting.  It felt like being home, and seen, and welcomed... like being known, and invited, and loved.  It was powerful, and I always leave her office feeling such relief. 

T said that this work goes on for hours after it's put into the computer/brain.  The archetype represents our own perfect self.... we don't need the archetype to do the work.... we need to remember we're perfect as we are at our core, which is a Buddhist belief, and dropping the judgments, criticisms of others, and layers of negative core beliefs is the necessary healing thing leading to revealing our true selves... not healing ourselves, so to speak.  I'm paraphrasing here, of course. 

The conversation was animated, and exciting.... I'd bring up A, and she'd respond, explain how the brain handles and overcomes (when given the chance) then we'd go on to another point... we talked about freedom BEING inside us all.  Nelson Mandela, and Victor Frankl.  Nelson Mandela was angry the first 15 years of his 27 year imprisonment.  When he realized he had control over his internal world, and freedom he shifted his life, made friends and allies with some of his guards, who later became cabinet members when he was in power.

She also said that it's not difficult to DO the work.  It's how we judge it, and frame it for ourselves that creates the difficult emotions around it.  Some Ts say it's "difficult, painful, will take years....." and so on.   I've seen at least one T who said that to me.  This T thinks that's untrue, and referenced a T client she saw the day before we met.  This T had a huge painful complex PTSD issue she said she was just "so very tired of going over and over and over again....sick to death of it", just too tired to keep on trying. 

It's amazing when we turn the healing process around, and view it as a revelation, bc we can heal in a millisecond, rather than continue retraumatizing clients over and over again with talk therapy that doesn't help the brain finish processing, and filing the emotions in past files.  And we DO get so very tired of revisiting the stories, but the stories aren't where the healing IS.  The stories are just doors to access the emotions, and sensations that require processing.  The story isn't necessary for the processing to take place.  Being able to put a story on the shelf is a huge relief, IME.  Knowing I don't have to spend much time in a story is a relief.  It makes the idea of a T appointment more positive, and about feeling better... not feeling worse as I go.  The healing is in the emotions, the sensations, and nonjudgemental focus.  The healing is NOT in the retelling of the story. 

So, the T and her T client brought up the story for that client, put the story on the shelf, focused on the emotions, and sensations that came up, and practiced this cross shoulder patting, (there's a name for it I forget) and whatever that client needed in the moment.  T client experienced huge relief, just finished the emotion, and left the office with a complete energy shift, all emotions around that trauma processed, and filed into past experience files.  I've left there feeling so much better, I wondered if the negative emotions would return... but they didn't..not around that story, anyways. 

We were talking about childhood traumas CPTSD..... an actual trauma, and then the nodes.... say a child was abused by a neighbor as the original trauma, then the child remembers the mother, her mother's absence, and lack of protection as a node attached to the trauma, and there can be many nodes attached to one trauma, layered through the years, and complicated.

The brain CAN process the trauma, and nodes at the same time.... time isn't linear, as Newton believed..... it's all right here, in the now.  At this point, where our breath is.  Albert Einstein's idea of space and time being interwoven in a single continuum.....what he called space-time meant events that occur at the same time for one person, could occur at different times for another person. 

This is what I got yesterday.... the brain actually heals itself.... more than BEING healed by a T, or ourselves..... just as we heal our immune systems when we sleep, and our immune systems heal us when we sleep.  We're creating an environment, removing stress, and allowing our brains and bodies to do what they're programmed to do. 

 I wish I'd recorded every session, bc I can't take it all on board, and remember everything she says. 

So,again, for CPTSD there may be more layers of trauma and nodes, but it's interesting that not all traumas and nodes have to be visited individually to be healed.  Some will be healed at once, just as some traumas can be healed through generations, for everyone through our family tree.  We can DO THAT for them, and ourselves.

We do ourselves a disservice when we interpret T as something that must be slogged through, revisiting trauma stories over and over again, endured again and again.

We free ourselves to relief and freedom when we view T as easy.... as relieving stress, and providing opportunity for the brain, which we know precious little about, to heal itself. 

Negatives beliefs, fear, and stress don't help the brain finish processing. 

Peeling away the core negative beliefs helps in every way.  Many, if not most of us, have no idea what's beneath the fears, negative beliefs, emotions, sensations and reactivity.

Many of us never get to the point where we SEE ourselves beyond the reactivity.  Seeing the truth, without reactivity, is enlightenment.

::nodding::.

The session began with my noticing traffic snags didn't upset me, even though it meant I'd be late... and I like being early to consider myself on time typically.  I just didn't react... I responded without upset, and noticed that happened for me without effort. It was really good.

In session I noticed my frustration with particular concepts, and lack of work in certain directions that seemed overwhelming when I viewed them as not yet conquered.  How I often do work I see others would benefit from, rather than focusing strictly on the work that I benefit from as priority.

T spoke about the ego, and stories we tell ourselves being the problem.  Typically ego is involved when we feel frustrations come up, if we check ourselves.... ego's present.

Feeling upset and angry in traffic is seeing the trees.  Pulling back, seeing what;s going on for others, and self, is seeing the forest... not the trees.

The brain's pathways can be such that we react and SEE TREES, rather than gain perspective, emotional distance as a habit, and see the forest. 

We work on building pathways that provide the distance, and perspective as a matter of habit, and default settings..... responding rather than reacting.

When we see ourselves, our true born pristine selves for what we are, sans the negative judgments and stories of others.... we experience truth, and that truth is enlightenment too.

The journey continues.

Lighter

[lighter]

I moved this post from Tupp's thread, so I can keep them together, and give her thread space for what she meant it to be: )  Also, I don't believe that older pathways are necessarily more difficult to change.... at least I don't want to believe they're more difficult.  I'd rather believe they're more complex, but just as easy to change.... 20 - 60 days of practice, and the brain's capable of making that change.


Re: Tuppp's 'On The Move' Thread
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2019, 01:01:16 PM »
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Hops:

Sometimes it FEEEEELS like the T is utilizing hypnosis with me.  I'm always trying to focus very hard when I'm working with her, so I can't really focus on that feeling that hypnosis is involved, but honestly....... I bet there are similarities, if not actual hypnosis techniques happening there.  I'll try to remember to ask her about that.

I KNOW KNOW KNOW that her intervention, explanations for how things work, and consistent kind herding down the correct path has made all the difference in my ability to make sense of, and utilize information around mindfulness, etc.

There were pieces missing, sure, but there was also a lack of understanding about the processes involved.  WHY they were necessary.  HOW they worked together, and in what order, and the biological responses involved, and exact information around the anatomy, and chemical responses, reversing them, and what systems and responses were responsible FOR THAT PIECE.

It's a lot of pieces, IME.  It's a lot to take on board, and remember while under stress, and in what order, and why.

Having someone calmly lead... which might be the definition of hypnosis for all I know, when our brains can't calmly lead for itself..... just calmly returning us back to the point where we can get on track, then leading us to the next point, and the next, bringing us back on track when we veer off, bc the brain DOES veer off when under stress.  It goes down old tracks that are WAY off the new pathway to where we can finish processing, and get beyond stuck points.

Find our inner child, struggling in this grown up world with tools that no longer serve, struggling, and clanging to be tended to.

And we can go to that child, when we're able, and reassure her, as you did..... and become the competent protective adult FOR OURSELVES.... parent that inner child, and FEEL our adult self step into control.. feel our inner child calm down, comforted and trust we CAN take care of her.  Yes.

That's a huge part of this..... I know it is.  Unhooking all those self defeating tapes installed by people who didn't know better, or wanted them installed..... doesn't matter.  The story doesn't matter, and that was such a relief for me too.

Not having to go INTO any story beyond noticing the emotions that come up.  Being able to put the story back on the shelf, and turn to the emotions solely.... just seems like a huge shortcut, and getting to the heart of the solution..... like INSTALLING problem solving software IN our brains, useful for resolving issue we've been revisiting, and trying to resolve in the present, BUT ALSO for problem solving going forward..... just a different category......
1.
HEALTHY BOUNDARIES   (Aware, and working on them, check)

2.
Ability to notice internal world, and drop all judgment around what we find.

3.
Ability to notice when we've shifted into survival mode, then access our new tools.....
PUT THE STORY ON THE SHELF....(staying with it keeps us off trackIME)...
remember mindfulness tools...
breathe from the bottom of the vase up, fill it, slowly breathe out....
find the emotions attached to the stress...
put our hands on it...
name it..... give it a number from 1-10 for intensity....
return to breathe, find nonjudgmental focus on our surroundings,
notice colors, sights and sounds.... our peripheral space... all the space around us, between us and the sun..... the space in a molecule.... so much spaciousness around us... breathing it IN, INTO  the stress/pain/tension, and expanding that space until the tension and pain have gone, or feels much improved.

And when I can't DO that, I find I'm so out of sorts I can't remember to push on walls, or walk backwards or practice EMDR either, bc... like Tupp and Amber were saying.... my brain is SO FOCUSED ON trying to solve the problem through focus, even though I have zero access to problem solving brain, I just can't make the leap, and STOP WORRY WORRY WORRY mode.... to get myself into a better space.

Knowing this, having experienced it and moved beyond it in recent weeks gives me the ability to SEE exactly how my brain gets stuck, and how difficult it is to shift OUT of fight or flight, especially when I still have to build the new pathways so I can practice using them, and build them up strong, and fast, and as likely to be chosen as the fight or flight pathways.

It's difficult to practice all this at once,  and I see how it gets easier with familiarity, and practice, and at some point the new pathways WILL BE INSTALLED, and no longer an empty space where I SEE what needs to go there.... kwim?

Having too much choice just makes it harder.  Not knowing what to replace the old pathways with is stressful IN ITSELF, IME.

Once the new responses, and skills are decided, THEN the real work begins of practicing, of remembering we have choice, and remembering how to get back to the place where we can shift OFF reactivity path, and onto response pathway.... new pathway..... back into parasympathetic mode that makes choice possible.


Becoming mindful means we NOTICE what we're thinking, are aware WHY we're thinking it, able to choose other responses, or to continue with the one we're experiencing..... it's not magic.  It's not a slight of hand, secret squirrel handshape membership.... it's an understanding how the brain works, gets hijacked, takes over our biology, and can be reversed with breathing, and nonjudmental focus.

All the steps.... all the new information.... all the old reactions that need to be noticed, and addressed, and acted on, or not.  It's a lot to take on board, as I said, and no one practices this perfectly, not even Monks.

So, Tupp.... as you move through the process.... you should be uber super proud of yourself for having the ability to break free of the old pathways, BECOMING AWARE OF THEM is huge..... bc you have to be aware of them, without judgment, not be afraid of them..... just notice them... welcome them, and thank them for their service.... they did their job, but now the danger's passed.  You don't have to be in survival mode any more.

You can discover ways to calm survival brain down, breathing calmly TELLS THE BRAIN THERE IS NO CRISIS.... the brain has to respond to that command, even if you DO DO DO PUSH PUSH PUSH on a wall to get survival brain to a point where it can respond to the breath's command....
"THERE IS NO CRISIS HERE, NOW..... I have arrived.... I am home.....I am safe."

Survival brain will eventually understand, and fall in line.  You'll figure out how to wean yourself off the old reactive pathways.... not easy to do.  Not quickly done, but with consistent mindful nonjudgmental attention....
tending to those anxious painful stressed places in our brains (that have been asking for attention all these years.)
Finally giving and receiving that attention......
maybe it is a sort of magic.  That it can be SO simple, to tend to our emotions and thoughts,
like a garden.
 

Like our children.

And Tupp... you have wounds, and thick pathways that have protected you for so long... all your life, perhaps.... it's THAT part is something that has to be overcome for everyone, but I think is more difficult the more difficult the stories... the longer the stories have been playing out, building fight or flight pathways thicker, faster,super consistent.....
it just makes sense that dismantling those pathways will take a bit more time to figure them out, come up with better choices, develop the skills to NOTICE when they've taken over, come up, from beneath them, and unhook the alarm bells clanging in your mind and body... for real CLANGING and hijacking your chemisty.

THIS will take some time to overcome, Tupp... will require a bit more work...... and I know you're the hardest working person I've ever in my life known, for surely you are devoted, and competent, and never veering from your mission.

Just an amazing Amazon Warrior, of the highest order, with battles under your belt., enough to last a lifetime..... truly.  You have stood up, dismantled a sabatage machine created by the people who were supposed to protect and LOVE YOU....
  I am in awe of your strength, and intestinal fortitude.... something I learned in martial arts, so important..... how very strong we can be, and disciplined....
you are those things.

The truth is....
when I think about how much you've overcome, and where you are in your journey, I'm shocked at how well you're doing.  Your resilience is something you were born with, I think, and I'm sometimes overwhelmed by the idea of what you COULD DO FOR YOURSELF, build for yourself IF YOU HAD ACCESS to all your powers and abilities....  if these old emotions and traumas weren't clanging away, asking for attention..... what you'd build if you could use all your strength.... bring it to bear in the present..... to serve you in your present day life, without distraction, and hauntings... hijackings, and old tapes playing, unbidden, but installed, and strong, and IN YOUR DEFAULT SETTINGS.

I know you're stronger than I am.  I know you're a giant, and capable of things I could never achieve... your executive function skills are good, even with all the static, and stories and hauntings from your past.... some of them still walking and breathing, and pressing in around you, purposefully..... unpunished for crimes against you.... the lack of justice a truth branded on your very soul..... and so unfair.  So difficult to make peace with,  but keeping you IN THAT STORY, mired, and stuck, when you deserve to put it to rest, and leave it where it was meant to be.... in the past.  Behind you.  Not forgotten, but finished, and done.  Put away.

And that's what mindfulness is about, IME.

That's where breathing fits in, and how we get to the point we CAN BREATHE when we're too off track to DO IT..... how we get to a place where we can handle the emotions, and hijacking of our biology..... familiarize ourselves with the steps, and processes, internalize them, install new pathways, and USE THEM till they're stronger, thicker, and faster than the old survival pathways.....
and that's more about daily practice... utilizing the new pathways when we're calm... when we're at ease.... just flexing those pathway muscles, and giving them energy, and moving fat from old pathways to the new pathways....

It really feels like we're installing new software, and retiring old software.  All new systems are difficult to learn, and master, IME.

THIS is a worthwhile brain system updated, Tupp.... IME.

THIS is something we practice, and simple practice rubs off on the ones we love, and we model it for them....... they learn by watching us, and feeling our energy change, and noticing how we're impacted by that practice.

Even the little changes, for me, in the beginning, have enriched my relationships with my daughters.

I have better boundaries, less need, more seeking out lovely connections I WANT MORE OF, bc I'm aware of what IS HERE.... and aware of how it affects me, and the girls, and our lives.

I can see what isn't serving me, and what I don't want... as you've said so many times, Tupp.   You are a giant, and honestly..... I think you're capable of being a leader, or a healer, or a teacher or all those things..... someone who can make change and impact systems, or focus on beautiful things that bring you and others joy.

It's up to you.

I think becoming aware of all the self imposed limitations we set for ourselves... how we see the world, and behave in it is something you're doing quite on your own.... AMAZING.

And I so wish for you to have less negativity around this new brain software, and the processes involved... bc it's slowing down what is an amazing journey I'm honored to be a part of, and to witness.

I know you have limitations in your life, Tupp.  I understand the time, and financial limitations are there, but can never truly understand exactly how difficult it is.  I'm not sure how well I'd fare under similar circumstances... with my skill set.  I don't.

What I do know is the time you give to worrying about other people, and people pleasing, and caring about others, more than yourself.... I KNOW THAT shifting that time and energy INTO your own program, your own care, your own journey could and likely will be a revelation in your life.

You've posted about the codependence struggle, and I'm right there with you.... about to go into the yard, and face my lovely neighbor, who I relentlessly people please without restraint it seems.... and I'm going to think about my own struggle with it.  Puzzle it out, and FOCUS on it without judgement..... to make that change, and free up that storage space in my brainpan!

I'll bring it up with my T next week, bc it's so vexing for me.  It makes me feel like I have no control over it, and I've also noticed how uncomfortable I am around people when I'm not in a position to be helpful.

It's a thing.

::nodding::

The journey continues: )

Lighter



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[sKePTiKal]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

What Lighter coined as "non-judgemental awareness", is called (in my lexicon) letting right-brain zoom out to see the bigger picture; the context that things are happening in; the landscape in which we find ourselves - having that emotional reaction or bio-neuro hijacking. If, when one becomes aware that tension, panic, the sense of being threatened or examined under a microscope occurs... IF one can remember to mentally step away and look at that bigger picture, instead of that one close-up detail... then, ye olde left-brain linear problem solver, gains a lot more data and is shifted back into it's proper role in the system of intentional autonomy.

I don't know if those words make any sense; they are different than Lighter's; but I think we're talking about the same thing; the same process.

I haven't exactly mastered this; not by a long shot. And one of the biggest challenges is when I'm in a situation with lots of people. "Lots" being defined as more than 1-2 people at once. I tend to turn off my own thoughts and volition and let myself just be open to others - and the subtle, sometimes subconscious, content of what they're saying/doing. But that's not helpful, because I am also very audially and visually aware of details flitting by, all around me. So, sensory overload, usually flattens me like a steamroller.

I am struggling with this a lot these days, because now I'm actually living day to day with people around me. (I still maintain I'm not cut out for communal living and this experience pretty much proves that.) I don't process a lot of verbal things as fast as other people either; not unless I already have a vulcan mind-meld connection with them and then the issue of patterns; inter-relational patterns and assumptions come into play making things even more tangled up.

My error in this current situation, is that I'm TOO respectful of other people's boundaries and not defensive enough of my own. That led to a complete lack of communication about some basic ground rules, agreements, and mutually accepted understandings. For good measure, throw in people's various relational tensions or activities, and their emotional auras... and Amber is looking to hide in her cave and lock the damn door!

Just to be able to hear myself think. And feel. It's as if I'm completely absorbed into the things going on around me and disappear as a unique human being. Because of trying to keep up and stay on top of all that data that my brain is racing to process. It's always worse, when I feel people are expecting something from me and I'm not even able to feel "me"... because I'm trying to withstand or surf the torrent of THEM, coming at me. Like I don't have a corporeal body; taking up physical space.

Therefore, I find myself feeling as I don't exist. And THAT, starts the cycle all over again at a more critical point on the spiral.

[Please understand, that all the "bad" things people do to each other: gaslighting, criticism, taking advantage, making fun of... etc is all swirled into this mess too. That's another sub-routine that runs; trying to sort that out along with motivation, if any.]

The contrast is especially stark for me right now because I've had 12 hours totally to myself. Steve came home last night, late. And he's quiet and doesn't impose himself on people or situations and is pretty self-sufficient... except he's completely totally unaware of his habits and how they impact other people. So we CAN co-exist, but I'm still excruciatingly aware that I am making the effort here and he's unavailable to make any requests of. There is something that MUST be done prior to the plumbers showing up this morning; and it's unknown when that might be. And he wasn't taking responsibility for his own stuff; so I have to. Holly usually does. She's gone to the beach with her friend John & the dogs.

She needed a break too.

Y'all can see how this is all related to the topic at hand. And I'm trying to circle my digression back. I'm pondering if it's simply a matter of seeing my own comfort and needs as being EQUAL to; what I permit and allow and create for other people. That, it goes back to my old mantra: there's always time to take care of myself FIRST.

[Hopalong]

Really smart takeaway here, Amber. Bravo!

I'm TOO respectful of other people's boundaries and not defensive enough of my own. That led to a complete lack of communication about some basic ground rules, agreements, and mutually accepted understandings.

It occurred to me that you are also eloquently describing what a whole lot of introverts go through.

Taking care of ME can also include simple respect for your own nature, your own wiring.
Nothing whatsoever wrong with recognizing that if you DON'T respect your own nature, you'll get flooded.

Then you can abandon the all-tracking, all-assimilating, all-aware, all-capable-of-absorbing-whatever-stimulus-environment-is-happening, all the time...stance. Because it's not pragmatic to do that. It's actually not being fair to yourself (which is more important than being in control).

Much better to be less in control of the incoming, and more in control of the outgoing: simple assertive boundary-setting. Clear speech. Straightforward "I" statements about rules/understandings/expectations/requirements. (One thing I learned in an assertiveness course is that, particularly when it's a new pattern, it often requires calmly repeating the same boundary until the other person takes it in. Two times or ten, the tone can remain just as calm and straightforward. Most people will eventually get it. Hol may take longer, if you haven't dealt with her this way for a long, consistent time. But she can get it too.)

Having to do all that doesn't make you a hostile host (or parent). Just a mature and self-aware one. It's okay to claim whatever space/air/silence/simplicity you moved to the mountain to be able to claim in the first place!

Hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

Lighter, I really like this:

our intuition can work all this out, and help us sidestep the old struggles.  It just has to stand up to the old hope.... and require we honor the intuition more than we honor the desire to resolve the old struggle

And especially,

we don't have to repeat to resolve.

Amber, I think it can be both neural pathways AND the "click" into a familiar recycling-to-resolve. (I lot track of where you posted that but wanted to say it ain't either/or, but both/and....)

Hugs
Hops

[lighter]

No, Amber, not referring to left-right hemispheres in this case. 

It's more bottom to top, top to bottom thing.

The 6 layered neocortex (most advanced and evolutionarily young part of human brains), is present in mammals, and derived from the 3 layer cortex found in all modern reptiles..... what we think of as lower brain/survival brain. 

Reptiles don't have a neocortex, and that's why we refer to the cortex as a "reptilian brain".... our fight/flight/fawn mode, survival brain, etc. 

The neocortex is especially prominent in humans, and is where higher-level functioning and cognitive ability are located... our higher brain evolved over time, and was formed around the lower brain....T refers to this as top-down thinking when we have access to our neocortex.

Lower reptilian brain is lightening fast, and responsible for survival.  The amygdala is responsible for determining if danger or crisis is present... this happens in 50 milliseconds...  I think.  Thoughts take 500 miliseconds to process... I'm pretty sure, so we can't possibly catch the amygdala BEFORE we get hijacked by fear, old reactive patterns, etc.  This is bc the amygdala reacts to save our lives... like TIGERRUNFASTANDFARNOW!  You know when you jump 3 feet off the trail when you think you see a stick that looks a bit like a snake?  That's the amygdala in action.

Thinking brain... our neocortex higher brain might wonder if we SEE stripes in the jungle, or if that's really a rattle snake about to strike us in the face,  kwim?   That's why the amygdala is so fast, and why it shuts down pathways to the neocortex... just BAM!  Shut down, and done before we have a moment to process anything about stripes or snake shapes, or a piece of moss that looks like a big spider perched on one's forearm,  kwim?  There are times I can't work in the yard bc I THOUGHT a spider or centipede or snake was ON ME, and then I get more and more jumpy till all joy is gone, so I give up for a while. 

We need access to our neocortex logical problem solving skills and creativity to figure out what's truth, and what's not when faced with crisis vs perceived crisis in the brain.

BC reptilian brain doens't have access to those higher functions, we have to engage the Parasympathetic Nervous System (PNS).  PSN shuts down our Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS).... fight or flight response.  It restores pathways to our neocortex. 

Left Right activities like walking, patting our shoulders left right left right,  softly, as in soothing a baby..... EMDR (quick movement of hand in front of eyes...)  engages left right brain hemisphere through the corpus callosum, strengthening brain integration.  Improved brain integration makes it easier to relieve the pressure on the part of the brain that's been activated with memories of old trauma/fear/danger.... the emotions and sensations around that old trauma feel very REAL, despite the fact we're no longer IN REAL DANGER.  Any relief of stress, and ability to engage access to other parts of the brain is helpful to allow the brain to finish processing, which it is very good at when given the chance. 

::uncrossing eyes::.  That looks so confusing to read.  Sorry.

Everyone has different ways of soothing, and calming themselves.  I'm learning different ways to sneak up UNDERNEATH the alarm bells, and unhook them with mindful breathing, nonjudgmental focused attention, or physical actions that help me use those things if I'm too upset in the moment to focus at all.  I haven't been able to understand all the pieces of information I've learned up to meeting this T.   She's explained things so I can make sense of the bits and pieces, and actually utilize them.  It makes sense to me.   

Not judging the fight or flight reactivity response as negative helps me calm myself more easily, or stops escalation that might otherwise take place,  making it more difficult to calm myself.   


Lighter

 

 

[sKePTiKal]

Dang words... LOL... they're so - dry & dead & incomplete - trying to talk about sensory or neural experiences. I tend to oversimplify/overgeneralize because it seems so impossible to me to find the right words to convey what I really MEAN. (hence, pictures for me to express things)

I hear what you're saying Light; understand. I don't disagree. In fact that paragraph you thought looked confusing, made a LOT of sense to me. You're able to describe in specific detail - which is appreciated! - what I've reduced to symbolic code for myself. My "shorthand".

I do know, how it FEELS to do both things. Like balancing a bike through curves or taking a jump with it... (PSN vs SN)... so I definitely feel those experiences in my body. And just do them. Noting the difference in how they feel. Even though it's often on "auto-pilot".

It's just fascinating me, how we can all experience and talk about the same thing - while perceiving it different ways and processing it differently too. That's pretty danged cool.

[Hopalong]

An aside, but maybe it's "directer" than I think:

I think that a whoooole lot of things we can struggle with, such as:

--not asserting ourselves peacefully
--allowing boundary invasions
--not communicating clearly expectations/requirements
--enduring/tolerating hostile, destructive, or inappropriate behavior

...can come down to something waaaaay deep inside, which is that we just want so badly to be certain that we are GOOD. Cerebrally, we know we are. But way down in there's a default shame-setting that I think affects us for a very long time, after certain kinds of childhoods.

So when others have needs, emotions, problems...we need so badly to know that we are GOOD, that we forget on the spot all this stuff: 

--asserting ourselves peacefully
--not permitting boundary invasions
--communicating clearly our expectations/requirements
--not tolerating hostile, destructive, or inappropriate behavior

I think we all need to know that we ARE good. We're not faking it. Even if we've sometimes done bad, we ARE good at the core. Daily loving self-acceptance....

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I appreciate your responses above Lighter. I'm going to read & re-read a couple of times. Ponder & seek within.

We ARE different people; and we've both experienced different kinds of things - even if there are some basics in common. And I'm happy to talk about things from your understanding, and then review my own... and see where we're saying the same things - and where we can maybe switch on a light bulb for each other. Maybe there's some overlap; some things distinctly different; and maybe we'll both see something new, too.

Saying more now, would be premature I think. Need to do "my thing" with my statements versus your questions and feedback... and see if something jumps out and says: HEY YOU, over here! I got yer answers over here, lady...

LOL.

[lighter]

Hi Hops:

Thank you for that very simple, and helpful post.  It was timely, and so appreciated. 

Amber:  I'm spinning from unexpected, very scary news... late father's caretaker's 12yo grandson was dx'd with childhood leukemia yesterday morning.  He's in ICU at Scottish Rite, which is an hour and a half from where they live. 

I was spinning around that whole situation when I posted to you. No need to reply.

Update:

Late father's caretaker/the Grandma in this, is remaining in the US instead of leaving for 3 months on a planned trip.  I was gobsmacked by her plan to continue forward, under the circumstances.  I didn't know what it meant.

They have a formal dx of Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia, which they're told can be cured.  He'll be in the hospital for 21 days for treatments, then released for ongoing periodic treatments. 

I'm so happy this is the best possible prognosis they could receive.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

I'm sorry to hear that Lighter; is there something you can do in that situation beyond just being there to comfort and support? Sending light & hope that all will be well in the outcome.

(I was coming back to re-read that post... kinda disappointed it's gone... but I understand. No worries.)

[lighter]

Amber:

We're making and packing food to take to the farm, and brother's house.  Just waiting to see who's staying where. 

There's 8 hours of driving involved, so have to plan this out. 

Our Asian market carries 50lb bags of rice, and sauces from their Country of Origin they can't get where they live.  Will load the truck up, and take that off their plates.

Will get some gift cards for groceries, and send with a note. 

I associate food and feeding people/being fed with care and support. 

My sister and I spent a lot of time trying to stay positive, send good thoughts, and not catastrophize yesterday with inconsistent results.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Food is absolutely one of the best things for comfort and helping out Lighter. Traditional "southern" response, too.

When my friend was having horrendous stress at work, caring for her elderly mom, and awful menopausal/hormone issues... I ante'd up a couple months worth of some of those "meals by mail" per week. It took the shopping, planning, and just deciding what to eat - off her plate, so to speak. She kept up with it too, until the situation changed and they regrouped at home, to manage things on their own again. She figured the cost worked out about an even trade-off, when you figured in all the driving/time involved in getting things pulled together to cook.

And they got to try some new recipes, too.

[Hopalong]

Lighter,
I'm so sorry your late Dad's caretaker's grandson has this diagnosis.

Forgive this if it's over-analytical. But fwiw, in case it's a helpful clue to some awareness or other...

I get sorrow. Heart pang. Concern. Love and help (yours sounds perfect).
I don't quite get "fear".

I found myself musing...are you feeling terror that isn't yours actually, that may come from hypervigilant years?

IOW, sad FOR ANOTHER is compassion. Fear FOR ANOTHER might be...something from somewhere else?

Fear, when someone you are directly intimately related to is sick, makes sense. But this child isn't that direct relation unless I'm wrong (because we adopt many non-related folks into our Phamilies, I know).

I am only asking about the fear ("very scary") piece. In hopes that your care and love and compassion will be where your response to this situation dwells. Not fear.

You don't need a new fear source. This child will be loved and cared for. Then what will be will be.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

https://contextualscience.org/the_six_core_processes_of_act

I was talking about the shoulder patting technique the other day.  I'm pretty sure T used the word ACT.  Above is information about that.

I also attached a site with information with all the things I've been bringing up woven through.  It's explaining a program they're inviting people to join, but people are welcome to sign up for the free broadcast.  If they join they're able to get transcrips and access to the program any time.

https://www.nicabm.com/program/compassion-1/?del=11.11.19MondayAnnouncetoUnreg

There's an informative video on this link ABOUT the program, which helps pull together different things I've been touching on.

Lighter