Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Friendship Moments: good or bad

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Hopalong:
Thanks, Amber. Those are such smart queries.

Her FOO issues were basically that her parents were famous anthropologists very absorbed in their work (they left her basically alone in the village in Africa while they were in the field, assuming she'd just be fine playing with the village children, with no thought of what might happen to her at age FOUR if the wrong adult male followed her to an outhouse...and did what he did.)

She was a shy, sensitive middle child with four brothers. No voice, really. I can't imagine what she went through after the abuse -- didn't sound as though there was a reckoning with her folks. But it eventually led her to choose a husband who wound up beating her. I don't recall how long it took her to get out of the abusive marriage but I know it wasn't quick. She stayed and took it for a long time.

I believe she learned very early that her body did not belong to her. And that if someone hurt or took advantage of her, she was helpless (still seems so in ways, overcompensating with intellect). Nobody would rescue her, but she keeps trying to find someone to. Her second husband who died so soon was a lovely and gentle man and devoted to her.

I sympathize. And have had impulses in that direction myself, when security fears rise. But she's paid a big price. I knew there was something unhealthy going on when despite loving her husband who died, she was on the internet with other men within two weeks. Until she met her current partner, it was the top subject on her mind. (True for me too, back when I still thought searching would mean finding.)

Anyway, it's absolutely her work to do, in terms of confidence and self esteem. I will continue to love and support her...I just know I need to be alert to my rescue tendencies, and impassioned advocacy. Fine to be an advocate, not healthy for me to feel so committed to it that I lose track of taking care of myself.

I have some hesitancy as well because in her quest to define her place in the world she also developed a pattern of lecturing and instructing that's reminiscent (in no way to the same scale) of the "forced teaching" I used to complain about with M.

But I can set limits with her in a much simpler and quicker way, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, no telling if or when or how I'll be actually in her life again (other than LD and Zoom support) so I don't need to create a saga when none's begun.

Good to write it out here, though. Good chance I'll need some grounding later.

hugs
Hops

Hopalong:
I think the challenge for me here is to unattach myself more.

I am busting myself with a realization. When she pours out her pain and vulnerability, I'm there. I know how to hold steady, remind her of who she is and could be, express minimally but honestly how I see it, offer (obvious) advice like a T and a lawyer. She drinks it in and always expresses that it helps a great deal.

Then her pattern is -- the next time we talk, she often pretends nothing happened, she didn't describe the level of pain she did, and chitter-chats about other stuff. I understand what's happening but realize I'm a bit anxious at the flip-flopping. There's something in ME that is uncomfortable with beginning to engage the subject and then she starts acting again, and goes into unconvincing detours.

So why do I get so bothered when she approaches-solutions-then-retreats and tells me a new (same always) story about how "it's better now."

I think it's the classic pattern of abuse, with her, but with me, is probably classic Co-D kinds of stuff. In addition to good caring support as Amber described.

Just tuning into that. I'll be talking with her this afternoon, a Zoom at her request. Maybe I can be more observant and less attached to the outcome. Huh. There's my answer, had it all along...release the outcome....

hugs
Hops

lighter:
How did your last zoom with friend go, Hops?

I noticed your intention to step away and let it be, whatever it is, which is so wise.

Lighter

Hopalong:
Thanks for checking, Lighter.

She was in the pretending/posing place, but instead of judging, I saw it as her way of surviving fear and pain. Avoidance, which is exactly what I do in other areas. It's up to her when and how much she can confront. Likewise.

I feel gentler, and more accepting. Her performative stuff plus denial is triggering but an opportunity for me to grow. (I've been watching her be bullied, which is clearly awakening my own bruises.) I've been her only witness for a long time. But playing the role of cheerleader and rescuer has drained me.

She said she's serious about healing her early trauma (with a T) and I'm very glad. She can't heal until she commits to herself. (Project much, Hops???)

My T said, "I think she takes too much" -- she noted that support is pretty spotty when it goes this way. Poet makes sympathic noises if I relate a trouble but she's so inward-focused I don't really feel it. I can get cerebral conversation anywhere.

Task remains to have empathy for my inner self and for others' too, but be more mindful of relationships where the effort and understanding go both ways. My T is pointing out that I often am drawn to people who actually don't give much.

I think Poet has also triggered me in a positive way, to start looking at myself harder (not meaner, but harder).

hugs
Hops

lighter:
I guess your poet friend really is where she wants to be, Hops..... in relationship  with a man, any man, it doesn't matter if she's disrespected, bullied, voiceless and unhappy. 

When the pain of staying outweighs the pain of leaving.... that's when she'll leave.

In a way you're thinking about leaving/shifting the relationship you've always had with the poet... in that you're steppng back and offering what you're comfortable giving opposed to what the poet believes you should give, bc you've always given it. Maybe there will be large shifts.... maybe not. 

Remember when someone on this board shared a response they often used with people making sad choices....

"Let me know how that works out for you?"

I think it was Deb.... but it was an amazing response and I could see how it would be better than reactive co dependence, yup yup yup.

Thanks for the update.

Lighter

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