N.

[Hopalong]

Meh,
I don't believe there is a "right" or "wrong" time to process your path to mental freedom. I spent YEARS (living with Nmom) analysing, reading, breaking it down, spotting and recognizing the behaviors, figuring out sloooooowly what behaviors and damage it all left in me.....

There were times I was absolutely thrilled about getting a new insight into Nism. Every single small thing I learned about it felt like the window to my mind had opened another inch and more oxygen was breezing in. There were times I felt so drained by it that I was paralysed into that work-home-survive thing you've experienced so much of.

It's easy to say at 75, but time does heal. It doesn't perfect, but it does heal. My mother, at 98, finally left the planet. And eventually, left me too. And in time, I found out more about her, and unavoidable compassion and forgiveness occurred.

That said, I seldom think of her in my liberated life now, and I don't wake up thinking about narcissism. Endlessly grateful for a name for it, I'm just living and writing, and facing up to my own mess now. Not liking it, but not ashamed.

I think you're beginning to weigh and value and defend your OWN TIME.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

What you're describing, Meh.....feels adjacent to my "nose on pebble" lesson in therapy.

When one's nose is ON the pebble/problem/trauma/person,/people who created the trauma...

the pebble is HUGE .....
it's all we see.

Once we learn to create some distance......emotional distance.... the crude up and view the entire field....
we begin to see the other pebbles.
We see grass and flowers.....
we see trees and eventually sky and stars and moon and sea. Amazing.

Learning to meditate/breathe/rest our limbic systems.....
creates a split second of choice, IME.

Choice to NOT tumble down old, familiar rabbit holes of reactivity....of lightening fast brain pathways.

It builds a split second to SEE choice, and sometimes select it, IME.....to build on new choices.  Build them strong.

Your father and mother are pebbles, and you're learning how to create enough distance to see other things.....
this is HUGE, Meh!!! IME, of course.

In your experience, it may feel like something else.  I look forward to hearing about it.

[Meh]

Thanks. You can see I was having a bit of trouble getting focused there.

The other question I had was this: Do you have examples of learned helplessness? Have you experienced it in yourself?

This area is something I want to work on as well as "agency."

The thing is I listened to a book on tape about anticipation anxiety and it really FITS VERY WELL I think my habits/behaviors.

So I am wondering if learned helplessness and anticipation anxiety basically are two terms to describe the same thing OR if these things are different.

Couple days ago I had to clean out my voicemail on my phone for example. Now this sounds pathetically dumb but my heart just kind of squeezed in at the thought of doing it. I don't mean "heart squeezed in" just as a phrase of speech. I actually had a physical sensation of dread, fear, loathing, stress, anxiety... something.. .heck even heart brokenness. And this was all about the SMALL TASK of clearing my voicemails... now it could be that it's 1) I feel I have not much to look forward to 2) most the voicemails I get are spam or some kind of headache to deal with. Maybe I am hoarding voicemails like a timestamp of past events.

Maybe the small task of clearing voicemails feels emotionally loaded. And things that are emotionally loaded I just have to focus on that one thing and do a small portion of it take ACTION and then it's just no longer a big deal I think.

In any case I did go through some of my voicemails and it wasn't a big deal when I actually did it.

Now I suspect there is a procrastination anxiety anticipation anxiety thing where the gravity of consequence is significant. Like how when a person is living paycheck to paycheck that deposit into your account has consequences if it doesn't get in there. But when you have savings there is no consequence it's just a routine maintenance thing after a while.

In any case I really do have to research learned helplessness, forced helplessness, agency, and "anxiety" a bit more.
I will just give myself allowance to do that when I can. I think it's worth it. I don't think that is merely over-intellectualization. I mean it sort of is but there could be something useful in it.

Is being too stressed and over-whelmed the same as learned helplessness. Maybe it is.

Have any of you worked on this learned helplessness thing? What is it for you?

Okay so I am going off to get something done today.

[Meh]

 It appears that I am reading GAD is same as learned helplessness. It's just that in books about anxiety they don't use the term learned helplessness and they do not say what caused it. I suppose it doesn't matter as long as one attempts to use some techniques. So this also means procrastination is linked to learned helplessness.

[Hopalong]

Thanks for bringing all that up, Meh. It's been satisfying to think about this morning, like a tuneup.

I learned from some article recently that procrastination and disorder are often features of ADHD, my particular bugaboo. Perfectionism slides in with it, in the sense that I fall into sloughs during which I don't do a basic thing (over and over) because I've already told myself I have to do it perfectly, like Dad's excellent but OCD map making, or old M cooking like it's an Olympic competition. Perfectionistic rumination is paralysing. Starts a cycle...oh, I know I'll screw it up, so why try? The world is bad, people are bad, I have no power to change my life so why try? (By now I know better than to accept this justification but also know my self-talk is where it starts.)

For me, perfectionism = anxiety that sometimes runs away with me. It's really fear of STARTING a new behavior, because what if I don't complete it just right? That makes a whole cascade of fear of older age or incompetence kick in.

I once interviewed Martin Seligman for a book chapter, and read his book, Learned Optimism. No self-help theory is magical, imo, but this one did grind off a lot of my resistance to hopefulness. There must be newer authors examining this now.

I haven't learned anything theoretical about why writing absorbs me so much I can have pinpoint focus or work on something for hours and hours. (The gift within the problem of adhd for some people is an ability to hyperfocus in some area.) I know I feel happy as I work on ideas like voluntary simplicity (not minimalism, exactly), or music (neglected piano), or simply a small painting. I need to create because when I do, some positive action in duller parts of life feels more natural.

I haven't worked with my HANDS in ages, unless typing counts, LOL. And there's a hand-brain connection that...does something good. Explains gardening and art, imo.

hugs
Hops

[Meh]

The rotting stagnant narcissist watches me just stares and stares. When I try to pack up my bag with my computer etc. They try to look at every item I touch. It's unsettling. It feels VERY gross and uncomfortable. I googled it and landed on a video where someone else is saying just this thing about covert narcissists specifically they just watch and stare and stare.

It seems to be that narcissists are way MORE disturbed than most people believe.

[Hopalong]

Oh, yeah. Their creepy glare has NO POWER you don't give it.
And from your observing (instead of enmeshing), you know you are different.

Grey rock technique...over again.

Oxygen at you....

hugs
Hops

[Meh]

"Awareness vs. Impairment: Someone in a wheelchair isn't choosing not to walk to spite you. A person with high-level narcissistic or psychopathic traits, however, is often making a series of tactical choices to maintain power, hide their tracks, and exploit others.

The "Mask of Sanity": This is a term often used in psychology to describe how abusers and psychopaths can appear perfectly normal—even charming—to the outside world. This ability to "switch it on and off" suggests a level of control that a typical disability doesn't have.

Harm as a Tool: For a child abuser or a psychopath, the "malfunction" isn't just a personal struggle; it is a predatory orientation toward other people."

It's Google generated text.