What exactly is wrong with revenge?

[Dawning]

I agree with that you said above, Patz.  

For me, having the fantasy worked for two days as a sort of temporary balm on the grief (where before I would have taken all the blame for my ex's bad behaviour onto me no matter what it was).  As I saw myself having these revenge thoughts, I let them come up.  It was not easy.  After a short amount of time, I saw them as being just a fantasy that I would never act upon and the feelings of revenge went away.  Perhaps, I didn't make that clear in my earilier post.

[Anonymous]

Dawning:  No I realized you had no intention of acting out these fantasies.  I found when I fantazied about getting even, it did release the tension and pent up anger I felt.  I had no intention of acting upon it either.  I can honestly say I  felt that way off and on for about 2 years. It was just through "baby steps" each day that I was able to make progress.  To some people it is incomprehensible why we "can't just get over it" and move on.  They simply do not realize the devastation taking place when the Narc begins to devalue you as a human, not only within the ongoing relationship, but to others as well.  Truly a death takes place and is only through the grieving process and allowing yourself that time and expression of grief and anger, that you can move forward.  

I decided to post here as a survivor and person that has come out on the "otherside" of the narcisstic experience to help others to see there is "life after death" of that beautiful, shimmering image of a Narc.  What you thought was real was not real at all.  You were just a supply of adoration for the Narc and that alone.  When you begin to prick pin holes in to that huge blob of hot air, and he gets a glimpse of reality........then the anger and the overflow of the ego collasping of the narc begins to set in.....that
is when the devaluing process of you as a human begins.  Don't believe any of it.  It is just the narc trying to reinflate all the hot air so the image stays intact.  Only people who have experienced the devaluation process can understand it. Patz

[Anonymous]

I am posting a part from the Betty Broderick case thread, because it matches this thread:

I like revenge. But a different kind of revenge. Successful revenage. Like that Betty would have studied law by herself, got successful much more successful than her husband. Made a group for women like her. Get a lot of support of her community. Maybe the young new wife of her ex would have cheated on him later. Maybe Betty would have found another nice man. That is a kind of revenage I like. I do not like to kill people. Even when I strongly believe that for many N's there is no place on this planet, just to blow them away is too soft for all the awful behaviour they did to other people. Let them suffer and not only 5 minutes die. That just sounds to simply.

Or for example I like the idea, when I later make a lot of money as a lawyer to buy the house next to my parents and give it to a group for single women with kids who left alone. They can all live for free in that house until the kid is two or three years old. By them they should have found a flat by themselves. Boy that would make a noise, where my father just loves to have his peace. It would drive him nuts. But well, the community would be happy, because they would not have to pay rental money for these ladies and the ladies would be happy that they found a place to live. Can you imagine living next to a house all with babies whom are screaming the whole day and night? Happy retirement. That is what I call a revenge. Doing something good and giving the N a bad time. That is something Betty should have done. I read in one book that she received 18.000 Dollar support money per month. From that money she easily could have gone to law school or to college. Okay, it would have taken some time, I do not know if she had finished college. But she could focus meanwhile on other things and her kid could have been proud of her.

The thing is we have laws which do not allow to kill or even injure other people. Only if there is a justification. But that has to be proved. And there is no criminal law for abusers and N's. Which I think is bad. In Germany we do not even have a criminal law for stalking. They know what it is, but that lame goverment did nothing to get a law for that. To often untit someone is getting hurt nothing is done. I think there should been laws against abuse. More detailed and especially for children. There should be more done for children anyhow. The goverments can spent money for every shit, but I think they should spent more for children. I like the attitude of goverments like France, Belgian and the Skandinavian countries. They do so much for children. Moreover, I think it is stupid to be in prison and especially for such a long time. I do not can really say, it was wrong what Betty did and I think that she was in such a state that she did not really know what she did. She definitive needed pyschological help at that point of her life.

Speaking generell, I would not mark revenge always as bad. Doing something which does not make you a criminal maybe makes one free. So there is no cause for negative bonding anymore to that person. Doing somekind of intelligence revenge (the other person did never knew that it came originally from me) often helped me to get free from bad person. Intelligent revenge is not always that easy. We need some ideas by that. Sometimes in life we get opportunities. Samantha

[Anonymous]

Sam:  The best revenge is living well despite what the narc tells you.  My ex narc takes great delight in telling others how he destroyed me.  It really makes him feel important.  The only thing is I know he is full of it and I can make it in spite of him.  Continuing in spite of their self absorption is the only revenge.  It is true we look at them getting off scott free and the injustice of it all.  It is a jagged little pill to swallow.  However it is in our mind's eye they have gotten off.  We don't know how well they are sleeping at night and what shoulder they are looking over.  If they have narced us, I can assure you others have suffered as well.  They have to remember all the lies they have told and to whom.  Reality is their worst enemy.  Patz

[Chandra]

Samantha,

I like your idea of "intelligent revenge" and "doing something good that gives the N a bad time."

A really excellent revenge novel that does JUST this is called The Life and Loves of a She-Devil by Fay Weldon. There is also a movie based on this novel called Shedevil. I have not seen it, so am not sure if it is as good. But the book is intelligent revenge at its best.....

Chandra

[Anonymous]

Chandra:  I also enjoyed the movie adaptaion with I think Rosanne Bar playing the She-Devil.  Really enjoyed it.  However the British adaptation had the She-Devil really mean and how she enjoyed getting even.  I lived vicariously through that movie! Patz

[Anonymous]

I loved that movie too. It was wonderful! Great movie.

Patz, for some it may be right that N's are there worst enemies. But I doubt for all. The N istself sees him being great and wonderful. I like to teach them a lesson. But not obsessing about it. If there is the opportunity, then I would do. Samantha

[Anonymous]

hello again Chandra, wondering if anything at that link made any sense to you?
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm
re - the romantic myth etc. Interested in your thoughts

[vunil]

One of the most annoying things about narcissism is that it's contagious-- they treat us like objects, with no boundaries and purely as entities for their enjoyment, and we learn to act that way, too.  Exacting revenge on someone just is a way of feeling better by hurting them-- it doesn't really do anything but serve us through something that happens to them.  And the same is true of boundary-violating stuff like reading their e-mail-- it's a way to find out something that we want to know, because we want to, without regard for them.

I have this problem myself, and it's tough-- how to react to a family full of N's without become N in my treatment of them?  And how to learn to move around in the world and have relationships that don't have this quality to them-- that reflect different (higher) values (that no one really reflected to me growing up).  How not to take out all of my hurt and anger out on other people (including the people who caused it) by giving myself license to hurt them back-- that seems like a good first step.

It's tough, but I think that this is the answer to the question "why is revenge wrong."

I did laugh at that scene in the movie, though!  Very hilarious.

[Lara]

I just read through this thread and identify so much with the sense of betrayal and injustice that everyone has expressed. At last I have begun to see my ex for what he really is,and it's so frustrating that although I no longer miss him, or what I thought he was, he is still in my head.
I would have done anything for him,I gave him thousands of pounds (without which he would have been living on the street.)
Now he has moved on,has a new baby,is probably having the time of his life, because I set up his comfortable life for him when we were together!
I don't want to feel like this,so how do I let go? I know I have made a lot of progress, but I still feel that he can forget about me entirely probably for weeks on end, and then casually get in touch on a whim and mess up my head.Even if I continue to ignore his contacts, I hate knowing that he can just casually text,pick up the phone and call me, and he won't much care if I reply or not.He's not invested in it either way. I won't do this,but I want to tell him that I've seen through him,that I wouldn't believe anything he said to me anymore, and that I want my money back with interest! I wish I'd never met him, and I wish he realised what he's lost! I wish I was missed!
 Thanks for letting me vent;I just don't know what to do with these feelings!

Lara.

[Brigid]

Lara,
I can totally relate to all you said and certainly to the desire for revenge.  I kept thinking that if I just showed him how much he devastated me and how sad I was that he would at least feel guilty.  HE CAN'T.  HE WON'T.  It is wasted energy, better put toward making yourself healthy.  

I do believe there is justice, whether it is in this life or the next, it will be handed down.  I would dearly love to have it be in this life so I can enjoy it, but if not I can't worry about it.  I can only control what I can control and that would not include him and what he chooses to do with his life.  My greatest revenge over him is my eventual healing and moving on successfully with my life.  I must not do something that would take away the pride I have in myself and the pride my children have of me.  I can always look in the mirror and know that I have done the right thing.  He can't, but of course he doesn't know that and probably never will.

[Anonymous]

I just read through this thread and identify so much with the sense of betrayal and injustice that everyone has expressed.

Hi Lara,

Betrayal and injustice sums it up nicely.

it's so frustrating that although I no longer miss him, or what I thought he was, he is still in my head.

My ex is still in my head too and we weren't even together all that long. I'm the one who was reading my ex's email (I had his password) and I saw what he was saying about our relationship to others. WOW. What a distortion! I am beginning to think that he's not necessarily lying but that he himself has no clue about what really happened. It's sort of disconcerting to think that someone's thought processes are so messed up.

I wish I'd never met him, and I wish he realised what he's lost! I wish I was missed!

I have similar feelings but I have just reached a point where I am planning to fully let go. A friend advised me to visualize a time when I am no longer thinking about him at all. What a great suggestion. As of today, I'm DONE reading his emails and tracking his disordered life. I feel a lightness that I haven't felt in months. I am planning to delete the hundreds of emails and many photos on my computer that have to do with him. This is a good feeling.

I wish you well in trying to let go.

Chandra

[Anonymous]

Good for you Chandra!  Now you're moving ahead!  Giving up reading his email is quite a step forward for you and that's great.  That light feeling sounds like a weight lifted?  This will surely help you to focus on you now.
Best wishes to you.

Lara, you're doing the right thing with the feelings.  You're expressing them.   This might sound silly but have you tried putting a pillow in a chair and pretending it's him and really letting him have it?  Or writing a letter, that you probably won't send, but just to help get some more of your feelings out?

I read it's also good to get a piece of paper and just write, write, write for 15 minutes without stopping.  That's all....15 minutes.  I have a whole file now but by looking back I can see how I have released so much and there is actually......progress.

The reality is ...he is still the same person.  He used you as a sponge and he will probably continue to behave the same way in this new relationship.  He has hurt you without care and will probably do the same again to this next person (and child).  

Maybe what is hard to let go of is the idea of the life you wanted with him, not so much what you had?  If you think of it that way.....was it really great--what you actually had with him?  You can get what you want with the right person, Lara!  You're free!!

Now he can call or email or text message or whatnot, when he feels like bugging you, irritating you, or reminding you?  What do you think?  Is there a way to not.....let him bug, irritate or remind you?  Is it possible to ignor him?   And get revenge by not letting him achieve his goals with you?

(((((((((Lara))))))))

GFN

[Lara]

Hello everyone.

Brigid, thanks for reminding me that our exes 'can't and 'won't' understand how much they have hurt us,or feel guilty about it. You are quite right, when I think about it rationally I know that my ex, if challenged, would only come out with a string of justifications for his behaviour, or even,as he said once to me,'I'm selfish, that's just the way I am and I can't change.'

And Chandra, how are you feeling now? I liked your friend's suggestion about visualisation;I am going to try that. Sometimes I don't even know why he's in my head so much;it almost feels as if my brain clicks back to him automatically anytime I am not fully occupied.Have I been brainwashed?

GFN, thanks for your practical suggestions about writing all the feelings out.I am happy that you have been able to see real progress in your own recovery by doing that.
Your point that my ex is still the same person is interesting, because altho I have at last stopped idealising him as a person,I am finding myself assuming that he is treating his current girlfriend much better than he treated me.I guess I should see very clearly from the posters on this board that Ns do NOT treat their spouses and children well, but still in my head I have a very rosy picture of him with his new baby and the baby's 'beautiful Mum' as he wrote in the recent email.

You made another good point about not letting his attempts to contact me bug me and remind me,etc. What I find frustrating (more venting on the way here!) is that I feel he has added me,without my permission, to a list of his ex-girlfriends with whom he keeps in touch as 'friends.' In some ways,(but definitely not in others,) I almost wish he would keep trying to contact me so that I can ignore him and so have a way of getting my message across!

Thanks for all your understanding;before I started posting here I thought I was going crazy feeling like this.
Wishing you all happier times,

Sincerely,
Lara.

[Anonymous]

Lara,

Now that the baby is screaming, keeping him up all night, pooping, and requiring actual work and effort, his life is probably not that great. I bet he is actually feeling some stress. The 'beautiful mum' thing is crap. I'm sure she is treated quite shabbily by him despite this lip service.

The worst thing you can do to a narcissist is forget about them and not think about them. If you don't think about him and feel indifferent/bored by him, he will "sense" that he's losing energy and getting depleted. Unfortunately it also might lead him to contact you (they do that). But if you're bored by the thought of him, it actually depletes him. Pretend he's boring if necessary. You will start feeling bored and that is a good thing.

bunny