What exactly is wrong with revenge?

[Chandra (aka Confused2)]

Hi again,

I just saw the movie Sideways and it brought up all kinds of feelings. In the movie, the "wronged" woman, upon finding out she's been deceived, beats the cr_p out of the guy and breaks his nose. It made me regret that I never exacted any kind of revenge against my ex-N!!!! Why should he walk away with zero consequences for his betrayal of me? He even boasts about the fact that he escaped this relationship with no mortal damage. I wish I would have at least kept the engagement ring. But, he wanted it back and I was actually afraid of him so I gave it back. But it REALLY irks me that he free as a bird, on his merry way, doing his thing, while I am still hurting. (I thought I'd turned a corner a few days ago but no, I'm still processing this).

Someone please remind me why revenge is a bad idea. That seems to be the general consensus out there in the world, but I need to see it in black and white.

Thanks
Chandra (aka, Confused2)

[Anonymous]

Taking revenge is like a boomerang, it comes back to hurt you.

How? Maybe through your conscience. Hurting someone else on purpose is a destructive act. There's no good intention in it. And acts like this make us feel 'dirty' or 'damaged' so we suffer too. There's a place inside us that knows we've done 'wrong'. We know we're 'bad' somewhere.

I've thought about taking revenge a few times but have not done it. What has happened is that those people who generally behave without any thought or consideration for others somehow receive the same back. Seeing this happen helps me see things more clearly.

Revenge is a dish best not served at all!

[Anonymous]

more

He even boasts about the fact that he escaped this relationship with no mortal damage

He's an idiot. This is to make him look big (because he feels inadequate and small). He's trying to make out he's a real 'contender' in the game of love, someone who upsets women to the point of physical violence. He should be so lucky that anyone would care enough about his pathetic little ass to even want to raise a finger against him. He's not worth it.... feeling better yet?

Seriously, taking revenge shows that you still care about the person in as much as he still affects your feelings. We ignore people we don't care about. As for him wanting to join the porn industry (your previous thread), please. That's not exactly healthy is it? take care

[Anonymous]

You have exacted revenge by reading his email  -- unless he would be kind of thrilled by that.

I haven't seen Sideways yet, but that's a movie. Drama must have conflict, otherwise no one would be interested. Mature adult life doesn't have level of drama in it.

If you were afraid of him, then you got off cheaply by a mere ring return.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Revenge takes enormous amounts of time and energy that would be better spent elsewhere.  Being consumed with wanting revenge will only age you beyond your years and it will suck the life out of you.

Believe me, I know where you coming from but it is not worth it.  At one time or another we all think about revenge but it's in an individual's emotional best interests to move on and if you can....forgive the person...even though they haven't asked for forgiveness....it can make a world a difference for you.  

Start looking ahead in life.  Don't dwell on the past but learn from it.  You learned a valuable life lesson and hopefully you will now know how to avoid such people in the future...or at least not to become involved with them.

Smile, don't scowl.  

[mum]

Take heart.  N's are thier own worst enemies.  You thinking about him/her, you spending any amount of your own precious wonderful life contmeplating revenge is, in effect, you giving them power over you still.
If you don't care, you can't be hurt.  Find healthy ways to focus on what you WANT in this life, and you will attract it.  Keep focusing on what you don't want and guess what?
I have been where you are and it was the darkest, saddest part of my life.  The more you get into this thinking, the more it will suck you in and damage you.  The universe will give the N the lesson they need to grow.  Whether they take it or not, is up to them.  You are also offered a lesson here.  Try to move on, grow, perhaps not cut your own nose off out of spite.
Hatred only damages the vessel it is carried in.  Choose what you carry carefully.  
Whether he has "won" and you have lost is a mind game you can look at any way you want.  Say you have won by getting away or say he has won by getting the ring ....it's your choice.  Don't even play the game.

[Anonymous]

Hey Chandra,

Been there and wanted to do that but the self-imposed No Contact has pre-empted enacting any fantasies. Quotes on revenge:
Nietzsche:

"For that man be delivered from revenge, that is for me the bridge to the highest hopes and a rainbow after long storms."

Ghandi:

"An eye for an eye will only serve to make the whole world blind."

Einstein:

"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."

Chandra -- Have you heard of Sam Vaknin? He's a self-professed N and has may Web sites. Take it for what it is, however, in the extreme we run the risk of developing our own N-tendencies if trying to exact our pound of proverbial flesh:

It is a danger to be avoided. And this is precisely what I call "Narcissistic Contagion" or "Narcissism by Proxy".

The affected entertain the (false) notion that they can compartmentalize their narcissistic behavior and direct it only at the narcissist. In other words, they trust in their ability to segregate their conduct and to be verbally abusive towards the narcissist while civil and compassionate with others, to act with malice where the narcissist is concerned and with Christian charity towards all others.

They cling to the "faucet theory". They believe that they can turn on and off their negative feelings, their abusive outbursts, their vindictiveness and vengefulness, their blind rage, their non-discriminating judgment. This, of course, is untrue. These behaviors spill over into daily transactions with innocent neighbors, colleagues, family members, co-workers, or customers.

One cannot be partly or temporarily vindictive and judgmental any more than one can be partly or temporarily pregnant. To their horror, these victims discover that they have been transmuted and transformed into their worst nightmare: into a narcissist.

They find out the hard way that narcissism is contagious and many victims tend to become narcissists themselves: malevolent, vicious, lacking empathy, egotistical, exploitative, violent and abusive.

VAKNIN ALSO HAS WRITES ABOUT about homosexuality and transsexuals on his Web site:
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq18.html  Scroll two-thirds of the way down the screen.
http://www.angelfire.com/ego/narcissism/women.html

Just keeping walking through the fire and hang in there.

Best,
bludie

[Chandra]

Thank you for all of the replies. This discussion group is incredibly healing and supportive. WOW. I will reply in detail to people's specific posts later.

Bludie, I have read a huge amount on Sam Vaknin's site, but have entirely missed the part on transsexualism. I can't wait to read that! He is really describing my N to a tee. I read a book called My Husband Betty: Love, Sex, and Life with a Crossdresser. It is outstanding and describes a lot of what Vaknin's mentions, i.e., autogynephilia, etc..... But the book doesn't talk at all about NPD. I am thrilled that you have pointed me to this information.

Everything everyone says about why revenge is wrong, is of course, right on. I just needed the reminder. Will reply in more detail later, but, new posters, keep it comin'!!!!!!!

Blessings to all of you!
Chandra

[serena]

You would be so much better using your energy to get to 'a place' where your ex means nothing to you.

I know you are hurting, but he is so not worth it.  You need to find the value in yourself and never settle for another abusive relationship.

I believe N's attract vulnerable people (often victims of childhood abuse, neglect, negativity and / or narcissistic parents).

I know what low self-esteem is having spent almost my entire life feeling that way.

Thank God I don't feel that way anymore - I like myself and that was my sole ambition in life.

PS:  I'm not perfect, I do have a punchbag and a pair of boxing gloves in my cellar!!!

[patz]

Chandra:  As a newbie to this board and reading the replies to revenge.  I have also had these feelings toward my ex signifcant other early when things were still fresh.  I have a different take on this aspect on revenge.  If you do things toward the Narc, to exact and eye for an eye....the only problem with this is you will have the  memories of doing this and having to live with it.  It took all the self control I could exact not to seek revenge.  Having been a survivor of a Narc for the past 10 years, I can honestly say, looking back now, I do not have the  memories of revenge on which to dwell, but have the luxury of knowing that he has the memories of what he did.....he has the memories and not I with which to live.  That is the poetic justice.  Patz

[Chandra]

I really appreciate all the posts in answer to my question.

Bunny, you said, "You have exacted revenge by reading his email -- unless he would be kind of thrilled by that." If I somehow let on to him that I've been reading his email, that would do two things: it would cause him to finally change his frikken password and I would no longer have access and that would be a good thing. Also, it would cause him to lose sleep at night wondering just how much I have seen---and NO, he would NOT be thrilled that I know all that I know. It would mortify him. I only worry that I would start losing sleep at night wondering if he was going to have me killed or something...

A lot of people said that revenge means I am still connected to him, and, of course, I am. The thing that is hardest to will into existence is to be really done with him so that I don't waste any more energy on him whatsoever. This is what I want most and it seems that I can only wait for this to develop naturally. In the meantime, the truth is I still do think about his betrayal and I alternate between anger and hurt. I still can't quite completely wrap my mind around what happened.

A martial arts instructor once pointed out that if you do more than simply defend yourself, then you have become the aggressor. Since he is out of my life, I no longer need to defend myself from him and an act of revenge would make me the aggressor.

I like to believe all the points made that N's are their own worst enemies and they will get their "just desserts" from the Universe with no intervention from me. We like to think that is true but has anyone ever seen the Woody Allen film Crimes and Misdemeanors? It suggests that we live in an amoral universe.

I love Einstein's idea that problems cannot be solved at the same level of awarenss that created them.

It makes sense to me that an act of revenge would somehow tie me to my abuser long term.

I am still mulling over Vaknin's point that Narcissism is contagious if we are not careful. I am not sure I believe this but I will consider it.

I think my mother is quite possibly an N though I haven't fully explored this. I know she was emotionally incestuous with me and, as a result, I have a fear of being engulfed, as she engulfed me, and maybe this is why I have chosen men who are ultimately unavailable (the available ones, I have not been able to fall in love with).

I have done some reading on Stephen Carter's website and that has been helpful too. If I could summarize his advice in a nutshell it would be, "Just move on..."

Thanks again for everyone's great insights.

Chandra

[Anonymous]

It suggests that we live in an amoral universe.

I think the evidence before our eyes is that the universe is neutral.

Morality is a human idea. Morality isn't a thing that exists outside of our heads. If it does, we have no proof as such.

How do we explain 'ethnic cleansing'? etc etc.

If you want to believe in a 'just world' fine, but it is a belief, founded in faith, not founded in real events.

In my real life the evidence suggests that there is no plan, things happen by chance and life is random and uncertain. There seems to be more evidence for that approach than for any other.

Re: not being able to fall in love with someone: what do you think love is? I don't think love is something that happens to us, it is something we decide to give another person. If you work it through that the idea of 'romantic love' is an unkind myth/fairy tale/not reality, you might become a lot happier! take care

[Anonymous]

lots of reading matter on 'love' and sex:

http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm

[Dawning]

Hello Chandra.  

Patz' post is floating around in my head.  Lots of good stuff there.  

I had, for the first time in my life, a revenge plot this summer.  I had it all worked out, went on the web, googled *revenge plots* and read all the broo-ha-ha.  I shared my idea with two others.  Bottom line: after about two days of this revenge obssesive-thinking, I realized it was the fantasy of getting revenge that worked for me.  And it was *healthy* to have this fantasy: it indicated that I felt wronged and was not so ready to take the blame and was prepared to do something about it.  But I am glad I kept it as a fantasy.  It helped me realize that one fantasy in my lifetime like this is enough and to beware of getting myself involved in such stressful situations in the future.  Maybe I'll feel the need to exact revenge in  the future but I look at it as a matter of the mind; best worked out and released in one's own mind as a fantasy (but I am good at fantasizing so this method obviously works for me).  In the end, Gandhi's quote really holds up.  

Btw, the person I wanted to get back at is now just *around* and doesn't have that power over me anymore.  Move on.  

xo,
Dawning.

[Anonymous]

Dawning:  I also had fancy's of getting even, obsessing on how great it would be, how he would be surprised, how I would feel, how he would feel etc.  While I agree it is healthy to sometimes "spin your wheels" in your own mind......I ultimately realized that no matter what I thought or felt.........my significant other didn't  KNOW about what I was thinking or feeling and what is more could care less.  The only result from this exercise is that my blood pressure was up, I was depressed, and he ultimately won on that particular day when I felt that way.  The same was with my father........it is a cold day indeed when you realize that your father is a Narc and the healthiest thing for you to do is to have no communication with him.  It is indeed hard, but necessary,  for to make progress and grow a a human being, is to seperate yourself from Narc's.  There is no changing them whatsoever.  The only responsible change can come from you.  Patz