Author Topic: Need to post this  (Read 6189 times)

Anonymous

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2005, 08:53:52 AM »
Dawning,
So sorry to hear about your grandmother. It sounds as if she was a positive force in your life and the family unit. Be kind to yourself as you grieve your loss. And as others have suggested, stick to your boundaries. My family situation has shown that whatever issues were lurking before the family crisis, they seemed to intensify and erupt because people are emotionally raw. Take care of yourself through all of this. I hope you can continue to build on the progress you've made through the discovery:  
Quote
What is also becoming clearer is that *the family* somehow was torn apart so long ago and that it was not my fault for being born.


Best,

bludie

bunny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
Need to post this
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2005, 01:01:17 PM »
Dawning,

My condolences to you. I'm glad your grandmother didn't suffer.

bunny

BlueTopaz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
Need to post this
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2005, 01:15:12 PM »
My condolences to you {{{Dawning}}}

BT

onlyrenting1

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2005, 01:59:59 PM »
Dawning,

I'm sorry for your loss. Think how lucky you were to have a Positive
G-mother in your life. Her life must have been made wonderful to have had you as a granddaughter. It is only time that will let the pain of her passing fade.
Just remember when you miss her so much that you cry and feel sad, she loved you and to have given you this feeling is a blessing.

Some G-parents, parents, are not missed and their childeren never shed a tear. I'm not saying to let the sadness stay with you for too long, only long enough to see that she made you an important person in her life and it's normal to miss her because she loved you and you loved her too.
How Lucky you are, keep writing in your journal about your life with her.
Remember the happy times and get in your heart that you were blessed.

onlyrenting

serena

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2005, 02:26:58 PM »
I am so sorry you have such a loss.  My grandmother was my heroine and died when she was 99.  I adored her.  She was wise, funny, clever and the best company ever.  I longed for her visits and I was shattered when she died.

This is probably not the case with you, but since her death I have been thinking how she produced such a narcissistic lunatic as my mother.

I have come to realise that she was the cause!!!  She was everything I said she was but she was also a narcissist.  This didn't impinge on me as a child or an adult because she was not my primary caregiver and I could only see the positive side to her.

I'm glad to say, thankfully, that this pattern didn't repeat itself.  I'd far, far prefer to be the flawed but human person that I am.

I have suffered hugely because of my mother and literally spent a decade housebound with depression.  Through therapy, I have peeled away the wounds and although still very raw, feel whole again.

Anonymous

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2005, 07:40:09 AM »
Thinking about you (((Dawning))) and will be here to listen across the time-zones, take lots of care of you, Stephx

Anonymous

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2005, 09:21:08 AM »
Dawning:  So sorry for your loss.  God Bless you and keep you. Many hugs.  Patz

Dawning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
Need to post this
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2005, 05:30:09 AM »
Thank you all for your condolences and messages.   Unfortunately, I am still so stubborn as to think that my mother can show any empathy or care towards me whatsoever.  

First, my grandmother specifically stated *twice* that she did not want a funeral so there will be no funeral.  I have no idea what is going on because when I call my mother to see how she is doing, she doesn't make any sense.  She doesn't ask me how I am doing or how I am feeling.  I sent an email to my blood relatives (except for my father who I believe doesn't care one way or the other) suggesting that we take a 5 minute moment of silence and coordinate it so that it could be at the same time.  My female cousin responded and we are preparing to do that tonight.  In a state of vulnerability - after having listened to my mother talk about herself for one hour on the phone and not setting any time limits b/c I thought she needed me to listen....I finally piped up and told her about some of my childhood memories regarding my father.  She then proceeded to tell me that she did not believe me, that the doctors "put all this stuff in your head" and I told her that she didn't have to believe me but I would like her to respect my memories even if she questions them.  She can't do this.  And it hurts.   Last night, she started talking about some distant cousins of hers (that I didn't even know existed) and one, in particular, who "makes life hard on herself but that is her choice."  I know this way of hers....I told her, "pardon me, but it seems like you are using this cousin to make a point about me.  But, I think you misunderstand...I am getting better, I am happy and I can live with the truth (however painful it is) more than living with lies."  She didn't understand.  She continued to tell me that the reason I was having these memories was because I was "hanging out with sad people."  I, again, told her that I didn't feel that way; that I had a support group and that I was getting stronger and gaining more confidence.  And her next line, "you know damn good and well that I support you."  I told her that if she could not respect my memories thus causing me to self-doubt myself, that I would pull back from her and I don't want to do this.  She then said that I was trying to control her and said, "I don't like that one bit."  But, then, eventually it came back to being about her.  The woman down the street telling her, "your mother may be dead but I'll be your mother" and how she is living in the house that her mother lived in and breathing the same air as she breathed and on and on and on...and that I should pray to god for salvation.  My cell phone then rang and I spoke to the person and said, *I will call you back.  I am talking to my mother and she is really wound up.*  When I came back to the landline, she had hung up on me.  I was stunned.  I called my friend back and she called me back.  She told me that she heard me say "my mother won't shut up" and I told her that she misunderstood.  Then, it dawned on me....yes, I am dealing with a 6 year old mentality.  Coo...coo....coo...tell lies but never, never face the truth.  I am just not about that.  And the more this dawns on me, the more painful her denial becomes and I see if for what it is:  she would rather bring me down emotionally and psychologically than listen with a caring ear.  Someone told me recently, *if you feel threatened in a relationship, then there is no relationship.  A relationship exists as an entity on its own that needs nurturing and caring.*  The painful part, for me, is to stop being so stubborn and accept that my mother will never see the relationship between us that way.  I want to be there for her in her time of need and she takes advantage of it.  But she *appears* to others as she would like them to see her.  She said to me, "you have a good heart and a good soul but you are messed up in the head."  And I don't believe this for a second.  But it still hurts to hear it.  This is the transition: the more I stand up for myself, the more threatened she gets.  Why is that?  

Thank you everybody for listening to me now.  
With love and an open heart,
Dawning.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Anonymous

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2005, 05:55:02 AM »
Quote
This is the transition: the more I stand up for myself, the more threatened she gets. Why is that?
Thanks for sharing your story here, Dawning. I'm sure this has not been any easy time for you with the passing of your grandmother. Please continue to take care of yourself.

Perhaps the answer to your question may be attributable to 'rocking the boat,' so to speak. In my family of origin, where dysfunction abounds, those who are trying to get well or detach cause disruption. The other members of this sick but cohesive and familiar symbiosis react in a variety of ways; often not positive. I think scapegoating and blame can occur. It sounds as if your mother might be threatened and is protecting herself from your reality. Not pleasant because technically we would all like and hope for the support of our mothers; especially when facing a loss such as you have with your grandmother.

I hope you'll continue to reinforce and give yourself positive messages despite whatever negativity you may encounter.

Best,

bludie

Anonymous

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2005, 06:28:06 AM »
Dawining:

It has been my experience with narcs that when you stop reflecting the image they wish to see, the devaluation process begins......i.e. you are no good, you are messed up, you are sad.........never never about them you will notice.  When you stop acknowledgement of that desired reflection ..........suddenly you are persona non grata.  It is the only way they can keep their puffed up image by devaluing others.  Don't believe any of it.  She is indeed a 6 year old.  Just pat her on the head and send her away.  I also found it beneficial to set a certain amount of time on the phone, say 10 min of hearing that kind of blathering........then say no matter, even if they are in mid-sentence......"well I have to run now, places to go, things to see.  I will check with you later".  Just cut their water off.  Worked with my mother in law every time.  Sorry  you had to put up with that.  Set the limits and boundries of what you will and will not do.  It puts you in control of your life and your situation.  Patz

Dawning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
Need to post this
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2005, 10:27:33 PM »
Thank you Patz and Guest.

The thing I am working on now is releasing the pain of knowing that the truth doesn't matter to my mother.  Its that *keeping up appearances* thing (gotta read that thread).  

Both of you had some excellent things to say in those last two posts.  I would like to examine it all further but, for now, just wanted to post this and say thank you for all posters' support during this time and this week and the one before.  It definitely helps to *talk* and post and know there is empathy and support here.  Thanks for sharing your voices and insights and for being here.  (I'm sorry I can't intellectualize or think more but I am still at the ending stages of grieving the loss of my grandmother).  Still feel a bit like a space-cadet.   :P

Take care, everyone.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

bunny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
Need to post this
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2005, 10:03:20 AM »
Dawning,

I tried twice to have a "conversation" with my mom about my feelings, childhood, stuff that happened, etc. A miserable failure. My mother became furious and commanded me not to blame her for anything, that it's all my problem, I'm an adult now, she couldn't believe how ungrateful I was, etc.  So I did not repeat this mistake again but instead confided in therapists and people who were not 6 years old.

Bottom line: very infantile people cannot hear what you have to say. To them it is a terrifying attack on their very life, and they will fight back with everything they have. All the ammo will be used. To them it is literally a life-or-death fight. It's them or you. They will demolish you because they think that's their only choice.

Unless this 6-year-old in an adult body seeks professional help on her own, don't bother trying to have an adult relationship with her. You can't. There is a relationship! It's just not between two adults.

{{{ Dawning }}}

bunny

Anonymous

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2005, 11:47:50 AM »
Hiya Dawning. You said about the pain of knowing that the truth doesn't matter to your mother. This might be more painful, but for me, it’s my truth that doesn’t matter to others. Your mother has her own truth (we might call it denial?) and you have your own truth, which is getting closer to reality. Her truth is creating her own kind of reality and rejecting all attempts from the outside world to tell her otherwise.  

Why is your truth closer to reality? Because you share it with others, like us. And you have the fantastic capability to change your mind. Change your mind, isn’t that great? I think I’ll change my mind! Great, wonderful.

This is from elsewhere on the board and I think you’ll like it:

Hang on to your truth and build on it. Guard your truth as your life. It will protect you and give you courage!

I’m sorry Dawning, this is a sad time for you in many ways. I think about you. take care, Steph

mum

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2005, 02:00:33 PM »
Dawning:  for what it's worth:  I think you are amazing: smart, caring and capable. You are doing a good job of identifying your pain and learning from it and choosing how you want to feel. Have you read The Dance of Anger? You might find familiar issues there. Seems that your mom is doing whatever she can to get you back into the dance or pattern she had with you....that you have stepped out of.  Moms are tough to break old patterns with.
Good job seeing what's happening, and choosing something else for your life. May your memories of  your Grandmother console you and keep you strong.

Anonymous

  • Guest
Need to post this
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2005, 09:00:48 AM »
Thank you everyone, again, for being so kind and candid as to offer your personal experiences and wisdom.  Well, my grandmother has been dead for about three weeks now.  Last Monday morning, I got a call from my mother.  She began to scream at me telling me how *worried she was about me.  very, very worried.*  And I said, *On what basis?*  I had a friend over who wanted to take a shower so I told her where the towel was and my mother wanted to know about this *friend*....male or female...and I said that is was none of her business.  Then, she said, *call me if you need me* and hung up.  And I looked at myself in the mirror and said, *you are you.   Not her.  Not her projections.  You've been doing that all your life.  Don't do this dance anymore.*

I am planning a trip back to the USA next month.  My mother lives on the east coast but I will stay on the west coast at the same place as before where I feel centered and whole and where the energy of the place gives me the fortification and confidence to...and I quote...*take the bull by the horns and drag it to its knees.*  

Anyway, tonight, I phoned a neighborhood friend who lives near my mother and he suggested that I pop in for a visit and try and stay in the same house with her but if she starts verbally attacking me, take my rental car keys and check into a hotel.  (I've already had my rental car keys TAKEN by my mother several years ago and hidden and then she locked all the doors so I couldn't leave) but I've been through that so will keep the keys on me at all times.

Basically, I want to be there for her.  Like OnlyMe, I am an only child of my mother and feel that she is alone and I want to help her but I will not take verbal abuse and, if that happens, I am outta there.  What do you think?  Should I go and visit her?  I know I have to answer that question for myself but I would appreciate any advice from those who *have been there.*  What my plan is...is to just appear out of the blue....so she is not expecting me.  I have never done this before; never given her the opportunity to plot how she can use and take advantage of me before I even get there.  But she is my mother and I care.  I'll give her one week.  That is my...and I quote again...."moral limit."  If it gets bad, I'm checking into a hotel.  Her mental well-being is not my responsibility.  

Thanks always,
Dawning.