Author Topic: Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'  (Read 4441 times)

ResilientLady

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« on: January 18, 2005, 11:40:51 AM »
Hi I just wanted to say thanks to guest who gave in the thread "what is exactly wrong with revenge?" this link :
Quote
lots of reading matter on 'love' and sex:
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm

I found the stuff really interesting, then I got to another topic : "identity and loneliness".

Those of you who know a bit about my story have probably noticed that I suffer from a profound lack of identity. Last night I had a really terrifying nightmare about losing my teeth, piece by piece. I felt terrorized then I admitted in my dream that I could not do anything about it, and it was ok since I could still manage to talk (to Nmother in my dream). But expecting a few teeth would still remain and seeing them falling one after another was really excruciating. This morning I looked in the mirror about my dentition, the teeth were all there!!! :wink:  

I found here : http://www.guidetopsychology.com/identity.htm what it could mean, and I feel a bit relieved...
Also I remember a month ago, my NFather told me that a short time after his father death, he lost 6 or 7 teeth all in once, and that no doctors could explain that...

Missing body part (in real or in dream), feelings of self-fragmentation, 'castration complex', loss (real or imaginery) of the father, loss of identity... All that stuff!! I guess my unconscious is working too well!!   :shock:

I was wondering if anybody could relate to some of this feelings... Like feelings of a body part that is missing, or feelings of self fragmentation...
Thanks for listening to these "strange thoughts". I hope they did not scare/shock anybody.. :wink:

-RL (fighting with the loss of her idealized Nfather..)

Anonymous

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2005, 01:06:30 PM »
Thanks for posting those links - there's much useful stuff throughout the site, I think.

Believe it or not, I've had the exact same dream of teeth falling out. In my case, I think the dream comes as an acknowledgement and a warning that I do not care for myself well enough physically (or otherwise, necessairly) - but that, too, is tied up in problems of identity.

I've felt fragmented to some degree or another all my life, and after a period of being better, became worse again after some of my traumatic experiences with my husband a few years ago (he was traumatized, too, by his own actions and also suffers from identity issues, so this is not about him).

I am struggling more now than ever with this - not because my husband's acting out was somehow worse than anything my parents did, but because it came at a time when I felt I had finally found a true identity (handily disputed by the link), which when torn down, left me more fragmented than ever - and now that I'm here, I have a better-than-ever-reason to tackle it not from the self-palliative perspective, but because my daughter needs me to be as whole as possible to help her avoid the same pitfalls.

All the same, I feel spread out, disparate in my parts, disconnected from my own needs much of the time. I am acutely aware of what I need, but accessing the will to acquire those things is difficult. I have a deep-seated resistance to being healthy, not just physically, but psychically, too. Seems like no matter how hard I try, the formative identy assigned to me in my household remains the strongest one: "You're not worth it, you don't deserve anything, I'm not listening to you."

I've been working very hard at developing an "I" voice strategy (see Narcissicm II thread, if interested), some so others will hear, but more so that I will hear.

I guess I often feel so fragmented that I can scream at myself 'til I'm raw and still not hear well enough to respond.

I like the part down the page about the pride of victimhood. Unpleasnt to hear, but it reiforces an idea I've been working on for some time too. Although I've moved well past the pride (I'm ashamed of the blindness of it, in fact), my attachment to that role reamins in many, stealthy ways. Now that I've eschewed being anyone else's victim, I have to look hard at how I continue the pattern of abuse toward myself, in absentia of someone else, and how I stubbornly continue to do so even when it causes me great pain.

Internal locus of control....

Is this similar to your experience in any way?

bunny

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2005, 01:36:23 PM »
Hi RL,

I've certainly had dreams where body parts were missing or not working at all (especially my legs). I think it's natural to have fragmentation fears all our lives as we have very primitive parts inside of us.

bunny

Anonymous

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2005, 02:26:51 PM »
Hi Guest, I am glad you found the link interesting. I found it very helpful, in that it makes more or less complex concepts simple!

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I've felt fragmented to some degree or another all my life, (..)  became worse again after some of my traumatic experiences

I think that it is a direct reaction to PTSD.
I remember having these feelings (but not the dream) when I had come to an important step in my self-analysis or at some points in my psychanalysis, i.e. when I am in the middle of a deconstruction phase. I have recently decided to cut contacts (phone) w/ my Nparents and to face the N part of my Father and the emotional void I feel from an (often today, more abusive in my childhood/teens) emotionally absent father.

Quote
I am acutely aware of what I need, but accessing the will to acquire those things is difficult.
I can sooo relate!  :wink:

Quote
Internal locus of control....  
You make a very good point here!!! I recognize that I sufffer from this victimhood thing, and this internal/external locus of control is a powerful concept. I will try to apply it more often, now!!  :)  Thanks for stressing on that. I guess also it corroborates your other thread Narcissism II..

bunny :  
Quote
I think it's natural to have fragmentation fears all our lives as we have very primitive parts inside of us.

Could you pls explain this? Thank you
IMHO, I don't think these types of dreams are 'normal'  :mrgreen:
I think it is worth trying to understand their underlying source/trauma.

BTW did you get a chance to have a look at the link pasted above? Some of it is based on Lacan...lol......
Even though I found it a bit too much religion oriented (for my taste) I found it pretty useful.

-RL

bludie

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2005, 02:27:45 PM »
RL,
Sorry to hear you've had such vivid dreams (and also the feelings of losing an N-father. I can relate). I've not experienced the lost body part dreams but definitely have the run-dreams; where I need to get away but I can't move.  I'm no analyst but I've wondered if these dreams are telling me I am stuck? Conversely, they might mean that I need to stay and deal with whatever danger/drama I'm trying to escape? Not sure.
Best,

bludie

guest82356

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Re: Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2005, 02:51:52 PM »
Hi,

I have quite bad identity confusion I think. Its only recently I have realised how little a sense of self/identity I have, and have had.
I've had dreams of losing teeth, them falling out, in the past. I've never really looked at dreams and interpretations too much until recently. I had one very interesting dream recently re: Castration.
Basically my mother was working in the sports centre she used to work in as an attendant. She noticed these kids who 'weren't behaving' and it was her job as attendant to keep them in line (she did do this job in real life). Although she didn't believe (in real life) in hitting a child, she gave this kid an almight whack. Now, when I say almighty, it was earth shattering. Like a BOOM went round, and the building threatened to crumble. Lets just say if someone was hit at such force, they'd probably be torn in two.
I encountered by mother after this, troubled by it, having been nearby and witnessed it.
She looked at me, and I asked why she had done it. She looked rather uncomfortable, but answered nonetheless, telling me she felt he had deserved it, due to his behaviour. Then I said to her 'I sure hope you never punished me like that when I was a child'. She continued to look awkward, and I don't quite remember how she answered, but something told me I couldn't trust her, or her response.
The dream then cut to this field of Dutch rabbits (awww). (I had a dutch rabbit a good few years back). I noticed one at the end of the field, and it was larger than the rest, and it was mine, so I shouted its name. It came hopping down the path which ran out of the field near my house, where I used to play as a kid. Before I knew it however, it made a dash for me, or rather, an frantic attempt to castrate me. I frantically tried to hold it back, with great difficulty. I woke up after that.

Quote from: ResilientLady
Hi I just wanted to say thanks to guest who gave in the thread "what is exactly wrong with revenge?" this link :
Quote
lots of reading matter on 'love' and sex:
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm

I found the stuff really interesting, then I got to another topic : "identity and loneliness".

Those of you who know a bit about my story have probably noticed that I suffer from a profound lack of identity. Last night I had a really terrifying nightmare about losing my teeth, piece by piece. I felt terrorized then I admitted in my dream that I could not do anything about it, and it was ok since I could still manage to talk (to Nmother in my dream). But expecting a few teeth would still remain and seeing them falling one after another was really excruciating. This morning I looked in the mirror about my dentition, the teeth were all there!!! :wink:  

I found here : http://www.guidetopsychology.com/identity.htm what it could mean, and I feel a bit relieved...
Also I remember a month ago, my NFather told me that a short time after his father death, he lost 6 or 7 teeth all in once, and that no doctors could explain that...

Missing body part (in real or in dream), feelings of self-fragmentation, 'castration complex', loss (real or imaginery) of the father, loss of identity... All that stuff!! I guess my unconscious is working too well!!   :shock:

I was wondering if anybody could relate to some of this feelings... Like feelings of a body part that is missing, or feelings of self fragmentation...
Thanks for listening to these "strange thoughts". I hope they did not scare/shock anybody.. :wink:

-RL (fighting with the loss of her idealized Nfather..)

bunny

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2005, 02:56:46 PM »
I think dreams that include missing body parts are quite normal. But then I think almost any dream is normal. It's when the dream intrudes into waking life and seems real that we have a problem (i.e., derealization, psychosis). I think it's fine to interpret a dream, too.

What I mean about primitive parts is that the infantile parts of us, pre-verbalization, don't go away. They're just covered up with layers of sophistication. These parts have very primitive, simple fears about parts of bodies (because an infant only sees parts of an adult at a time).

No, I haven't looked at your link yet.

bunny

Anonymous

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2005, 03:24:35 PM »
Hi Bludie,

Since I have decided to tackle / face the issue of the absent father, (a couple of weeks ago) I have had several weeeeiiiird dreams... I have read a couple of books about the emotional absence of the father, so I guess my unconscious was/is reacting now  :wink:
As it says somewhere in the url pasted above, it is useful to keep a pen / notepad near your bed so that you can write your dreams down as soon as you wake up. This is what I  do. I do it out of necessity, b/c if I don't, the dreams keep "haunting" me for days... So it's a big relief to write them down...

I am no analyst either, but hey it's always interesting to think about potential interpretations, right? One idea leads to another and so on... Could you please say more (if you can) about your run dreams : what were your feelings? what were the circumstances? what kept you from running? why did you want to run?
If you don't remember, it could be interesting to write down your dreams, notice the recurrent topics/feelings/things and at some point in time, you may find out...

I have had the same types of dreams for over a year : getting my car back from the garage of a man, and driving until either there is either no gas, or until the road stops, or until the round-abouts turn around. Sometimes the man has noticed I took my car back and started chasing me. I knew I would always lose it b/c his car was way faster than mine.. 3 weeks ago I finally got an interpretation that made sense to me, but it tookme a long long time to find out...

About another topic, recognizing the loss of the father, I have just read a great book : The Wounded Woman by Linda Schierse Leonard. I bought it b/c the title was translated in French as "The daughter of her father". It is based on Jungian concepts ( :wink: for bunny) and very much on dreams and myths.
I found it absolutely beautiful and inspiring and I highly recommend it to you (and all the other posters!!) if you have not read it yet..

Cheers,

-RL

Anonymous

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2005, 03:52:30 PM »
Hi again Guest,
Just a thought about how to overcome this (temporary) sense of sellf-fragmentation. I read a pretty good book a few months ago called Ending the struggle against yourself by Stan Taubman. It emphasizes (I quote a few chapters):
-the "healing power of personal initergrity"
-overcoming self-fragmentation : personal integrity through self-acceptance
-friends and confidents
-divine surrender : deep confidence and spirituality
I can't really talk about it since I don't remember it so well, but I remember I felt extremely peaceful and in harmony with the outside world after having read it.
Also what "works" for me is reading zen/chinese philosophy books (like tchouang-tseu and zhong yong).
Also spiritual meditation books/music (like yiddish and mizrahi music).
All this helps put the parts (and the teeth!) back together...
After all meditation means "oriented toward the centre", which is the best medicine for the "spread-out" feeling... :wink:
I guess it's time for me to do that now...
-RL

pinecone

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horrific dreams
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2005, 06:52:00 PM »
i have dreams that my body is rotting, when i am off antidepressants - i have been on antidepressants for about 28 years, but every now and then i will try to go off them, and the dreams have come - this is really one way i know that i am DEPRESSED, the dreams -

Anonymous

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2005, 11:58:38 PM »
Pinecone, your dreams are probably linked more to the withdrawal effects of coming off the anti-depressants. Depending on the drug of choice, they can be quite severe on the body.

Anonymous

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Identity and feelings of 'self-fragmentation'
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2005, 12:19:43 PM »
Thanks, RL, for the recommendation.

You're entirely right about the PTSD. Lately, I think it's been making a comeback in some ways. On the otherhand, I think it has been there lurking since childhood and needed the "events" between my husband and I to bring it to full flower.

I have a book reference if anyone needs it re: PTSD. It helped explain the mechanism well enough for me to at least understand what was going on, and even get decent initial control:

The Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Sourcebook
Glenn R. Schiraldi, PhD

Thanks again.