Overcompensate by "spoiling" your child? Anyone??

[Anastasia]

Have any of you--because of your own toxic parenting with Narcissistic parents--overcompensated with love, material goods and spoiling your own children more than is healthy?  
If you raised your child alone, did you feel that your child was all you had in this world?  Did you try to give your child everything to make up for the love you knew you lacked?
Are you sorry you did this now?  
If your child is now grown, how did they turn out?  
And how common, I wonder, is this overcompensating with our children to those of us raised in such brutally hard conditions?  Maybe I am wrong (not having seen any statistics), but I have the feeling it is common for those of us with Narcissistic parents.
Opinions?

[Anonymous]

Sometimes yes, but most often no - if only because I had my child relatively late (30) and had given the overcompensation angle a lot of thought ahead of time.

I do think it can be hard to know the difference sometimes when your modeling is so skewed...if your only recipe is for vanilla, it's hard to create chocolate accurately. One could add to much or too little of any ingredient and be none the wiser until it's done.

Taste frequently.

T

[Anonymous]

Anastasia,
I was only able to have one child. I vowed for her childhood to be different than mine. I may have over-compensated because I see signs of the "what have you done for me lately?" attitude. Then again, it could be a fairly normal hormonally-challenged teenager. I try to find balance and am teaching her you have to earn things in life: respect, car keys, lasting friendships, etc.

She is only 16 years so we'll see how I've done in a few years when she spreads her wings and gets ready to fly.

Best,

bludie

[Anonymous]

After emerging from my own childhood, I thought I really didn't have a clue how to parent properly.  Nothing to go by.  So, I searched for information and tried to learn as much as I could from other sources.

I think I did overcompensate, sometimes, even sometimes, more than is healthy.  I definately tried to give my children a whole different childhood than I had and I think I accomplished that.  I taught my children to love eachother because I really see the value for them and I gave them my love, unconditionally.

I do think I kept many of my own feelings to myself, a lot of the time, while trying to teach them to express theirs, and while trying to understand and help them feel validated and valuable.  I may have kept too much to myself because it sometimes seems as if they view me as not having feelings (or at least that they do not seem to consider them).  That could be just immaturity.

I simply didn't want to burden them with some feelings and wasn't sure how to express others.  This was a definate result of my upbringing because feelings were just not allowed.  I sometimes have to try hard to make sure I know exactly what it is I do feel (unlearn what I was used to, so to speak) and be aware of expressing my feelings, even make a distinct effort to express my feelings (so I guess I haven't unlearned it yet but I'm trying).

My children are not in jail, they have healthy habits, they are moral, good, kind, goal-oriented people, who say they are happy and seem to be enjoying their lives.

I've done a lot of stuff right, I think.  I would correct some things, if I had the chance.  They have praised me as a parent, which feels really good, so they are generous to boot.  They will try to be even better parents, I bet.

GFN

[mum]

Do you mean spoiled or indulged? The word spoiled indicates "gone bad" or somehow irreparably damaged, like spoiled milk, or those science experiments in my refrigerator.
Maybe my response won't help too much, because I did not come from N parents, but my exN certainly did.  He does not "spoil" our children with indulgences (unless it looks good on him....flying them around the world to see him, etc.) and is actaully extremely cheap, controlling and punitive with them.  If he "spoils" them, it would be in that he offers them a crappy view of how men should treat women and how people should behave in general.  Because I left him, I will not allow that kind of rot to be the only life choice my kids see.

When my son was a baby, at the "stranger anxiety" stage, my ex N's aunt and mother accused me of "spoiling" my child by not allowing them to "make him scream it out" in their arms (I was 2 feet away, my infant screaming and reaching out to me while they tried to keep him from me....just to prove a point...what a sick bunch).  

If you are talking about "spoiling" as in giving too much, allowing too much, etc, I must confess that I probably play "dueling checkbooks" with my ex at holidays (which is hilarious, as he makes 4-5 times my salary). I don't really have the financial means to spoil my kids that way.  But at my home, my kids let their hair down, cry, laugh, argue and share, and generally get to be themselves.  They don't always clean up their rooms when I ask them to and don't always remember where they left my keys, but they are nice people who are strong willed yet kind to others.  Are they spoiled?  Not in my opinion. Are they lucky? Absolutely.

[Naomi]

Mum... {{{{{smiles}}}}}

My son was born borderline Autistic and globally mentally handicapped. When he was a baby, he would scream a lot and cry all the time, trying to communicate his needs. I would stay up with him all night long, rocking him in the rocking chair, and walking with him in my arms.

The health nurse said that I was "coddling" him to much, and to just leave him scream and cry till he gives up and falls asleep on his own.

I simply could not do it. I felt then, and I still feel now, like she was wrong. Especially in my case. My son needed me, and I would literally run to him and be there for him 100%, and I never failed in that.

Today, he is very communicative and extremely loving. I am glad I gave him  the attention he personally required. I know he needed it, and I don't feel that I was at all spoiling him, rather, answering to his ever need that I could.

[Mum]

Naomi:  I'm with you there.  Follow your intuition....and a mother's is not one to fool with.  What a fortunate son!

[October]

Have any of you--because of your own toxic parenting with Narcissistic parents--overcompensated with love, material goods and spoiling your own children more than is healthy?  

Yes, I try to give my daughter the love I missed when I was small.  Yes, I am raising her alone, and she has many more clothes than I do, and many more toys and books than any of her friends.  She is also very sensitive and does have a tendency to be afraid of strangers and strange situations, whether because of her own nature or because of the difficult times with my ex when she was small, I do not know.

But I have a good friend who says to me that you cannot spoil a good thing, and I believe she is right.

[T]

Mum:

I had similar experiences (let 'er cry it out) and messages, and just you do, believe this is in no way the right or humane approach.

In many more "primitive" cultures, babies are always kept close to mother, even in a sling while she works in the fields, etc. Cryig children are not rejected, they are comforted and kept close. In those societies, children become full participants in community life very early, to the extent of their abilities, and suffer many fewer bonding issues and depression.

Of course, those societies are not all perfect, but this aspect tells something important, I think.

Western medicine became exceptionally intrusive with respect to mother - child bonding in the 30's - 50's; overscheduling feeding, sleeping, affection, dressing and everything elese, devaluaing  and destroying many a natural, healthy parent-child bond. Motherhood and babyhood became so intensely regulated as to create a family atmosphere not of love, but of constant tension, and on Mother's part, a terrible fear of "not doing it right". So cowed by Medical Professionals were they that they had to adapt by squashing their own protective instincts - thus ignoring the natural instincts of the child to seek comfort and bonding.

It is as though we in developed nations experienced in that period an induced cultural narcissism (due to early narcissistic injury), followed by the ultra-permissive 60's - 70's, which overshot the objective of restoring this balance. By the 80's, kids were routinely "bought off" with the notion that privelege and upward mobility were everything - love was a gold card and a Mercedes-Benz. By the 90's, Gen-X (the we don't give a rat's ass generation) was king.

I wonder if we as a culture can ever recover those "primitive", healthy parent-child bonds?

T

[mum]

T :
such a fascinating topic.  My mom told me that they would (50's) have mothers go through all of the childbirth pain/contractions and then "knock us out" at the last moment.... to wake up to: "you have a baby....." later.
And she wanted to breast feed sooo badly, but in the late 40's and 50's that was considered primitive...she tried, but with a constant barage of negativity, couldn't continue...so we were all bottle fed.  At least she did slip in massaging us all as infants (she was a P. E. major in college).
     My ex's father was an emotionally stunted, abusive alcoholic and his mother is now depressed/agorophobic.  I stood firm with them when it came to my kids and also did so with my ex...not that he really cared anyway.  He refused to read about or discuss any child care issue...left the room for the majority of his children's births, looked cockily at the ceiling when the obgyn was telling him anything....just an apple who didn't fall far from the tree.
     I have a lot of older sisters with children, I read everything in sight about raising a child, and decided for myself sometimes through trial and error, what worked for ME and my children.  They did not have to Cry It Out....sure it was tough on me as my ex never got up and rarely changed a diaper, but it was torture for ME to ignore them.  
Who knows if I made a mistake.  Who's to say?  It was my intuition and my decision.  It felt unnatural and cruel for me to do differently.
      I think your analysis of what has gone on culturally in recent decades is a good one.  In education, we see the pendulum swing all the time (it's currently FAR RIGHT...as in political) so maybe parenting is the same way.
I will just stay in MY middle and go with love in my heart.  It's the only way for me to parent.

[T]

Thanks, Mum -

it is all fascinating, including the "group" parenting aspects.

My uncle said it very well, regarding the difference between his childhood and nowadays: "Back then, every Mother was every shild's mother. If any strange woman said"Tuck in your shirt and comb your hair", you did so without question. Now parents will sue each other for that kind of thing, not realizing that they are contributing to the decline of civilization and teaching their children disrespect for all authority".

I think when we have raised generations of babies who are emotionally divorced from their mothers, in turn we created a society that is filled with people who are divorced from each other as individuals and human beings. The concept of real "community", where the love and labor of survival and parenting is shared by all, is only a distant, quaint dream (not unlike the Geneva Convention, eh?) for us now. So much for "It takes a village..."

This is clearly evident in the quality and nature of our entertainment. I'm no prude (obvious if you've read some of my other posts, in other plcacs), and believe adults should be able to do/consume entertainment as they please, but the lack of any real community (and especially corporate) support for the protection of our children from adult images is alarming - and I contend that this will create a yet more "divorced" group of adults in the end, as the children so exposed are forced to try and process feelings for which they are developmentally unprepared.

In defense of this, I have no cable or video games in my house, and pre-screen some books &  movies for developmentally appropriate content as needed, allowing in a little more at a time. But I can't stop what she learns at school or elsewhere, so I try to keep a very open dialogue. Wish me luck.

I could go on - and thanks Mum for being fascinated, too.

I'll get this directed more toward topic, however:

I think you cannot over-compensate or spoil with love, comfort and closeness. I believe children can only be spoiled by the absence of those, lack of discipline and expectation (age- appropriate), substitution of material goods (by themselves harmless, aside from stimulating disorganization) for real affection and parenting, lack of protection from developmentally inappropriate entertainment, or any combination of the above.

If you love your child, help them understand their own emotions and the value of themselves and others as human beings, tolerate developmentally normal outbursts with patience and understanding, maintain reasonable expectations for behavior and achievement, and sheild them from what they are not ready to understand healthily - you won't fail them.

T