A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women

[Anonymous]

So bunny. I'm curious about this Celani book: http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=62-023110037x-2 Is one of his theories that the women themselves may have personality disorders? And if so, which one(s)? Also, is the book more in laypeople terms or for practitioners? Thanks.

Best,

bludie

[Anonymous]

I had no inkling that you'd give me the power to upset you so much.

I am not a bit upset.  I was stating my opinion and using an example from my past experience, as an example, and asking you if you can relate?

Reading a whole lotta stuff that ain't here, you are.  I don't believe I am projecting a thing.  I am making a point though, aren't I?

Can you relate to my point?

[Anonymous]

Book, The Illusion of Love is not about "labeling" men or women with disorders (although that's on the Powell's website). I would broadly say that the men *and* women he describe have BPD. This is about how some women stay in dangerous or really bad situations and repeatedly return to the abuser. Even women in the hospital with serious injuries would return to the abuser. It's not a mystery after reading this. You could get the book from the library to see if you like it. It's very interesting. And it's for lay readers.

bunny

[Anonymous]

One more thing.

There is an excerpt from "The Illusion of Love" on amazon and some reviews. It's also available used.

bunny

[Anonymous]

[yowza  -- your writing style might be catchy!]

You weren't responding to me on that one - thank you, Guest whoever you are, for seeing the same truth at the core of this that I do.

For the record, having established an identity, I always claim ownership of my statements by SIGNING OFF:

T

Meanwhile, I think it most kind to let this thread be about the concepts originally presented, and also about other posters who have shared their personal stories of getting into/remaining in abusive situations. Perhaps you wiould be considerate enough of those others, if not me, to agree.

[Anonymous]

I am not a bit upset. I was stating my opinion and using an example from my past experience, as an example, and asking you if you can relate?

Reading a whole lotta stuff that ain't here, you are. I don't believe I am projecting a thing. I am making a point though, aren't I?

Can you relate to my point?

No I can't relate.  I'm confused as all heck.  You did use the word "your words are harmful, all to purge your own selfish, cathartic need without concern for that consequence---" when you could have used " sometimes people's words, other's words-- etc.

You also assumed a very negative motive and behavior to me via your personal wording, and name called to boot  Wouldn't it make sense for me to view it as a projection?  

You know, when people project it is really hard for them to see it themselves. They'll fight tooth 'n nail on it I tell ya---

It may not be the one you think you are making, but you are definitely making a point with me.  

So, yes, I changed my initial answer and agree with that part now. I relate to a point you are making with me.

I certainly don't mean to imply anything about you. What' the point anyway, sooner or later we all ourselves, reveal exactly who we really are and where we are "at" within for all to behold.  

I'm on an empty tummy right now so gotta run for the moment. I'm  dreaming so much of chicken wings [another achilles heel!] but my healthy eating person of annoyance on my shoulder will have my butt in there chopping cucumbers and tomatos for a salad  

Have a good evening.

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile, I think it most kind to let this thread be about the concepts originally presented, and also about other posters who have shared their personal stories of getting into/remaining in abusive situations. Perhaps you wiould be considerate enough of those others, if not me, to agree.

Oops-- Just read this one as I posted mine a second ago, and decided to respond before signing off for dinner.

Yes, if the dialogue is actually bothersome to anyone [which you have stated it might be to you], I'd be very glad to drop it right now.  It wasn't directly related to the issue at hand, I know.

And I respect your kind and diplomatic expression, T.

[Anonymous]

This is confusing.  I see what you mean.

You did use the word "your words are harmful, all to purge your own selfish, cathartic need without concern for that consequence---" when you could have used " sometimes people's words, other's words-- etc.

You're right!  I was adding to your statement.  Ok..I'll reword it now, as you suggest.

"Sometimes people's words are harmful etc...."

My point is...having a voice does not give us free reign to say whatever we want to whomever we wish whenever the urge hits, even if we do so politely, if.......what we say causes harm or has clear potential to do so.

My opinion.   Blunt and is clear and may be necessary sometimes.  Polite and kind is clear and is often the most useful.  Catch more flies with honey plan.  My opinion again.

You also assumed a very negative motive and behavior to me via your personal wording, and name called to boot  Wouldn't it make sense for me to view it as a projection?

Yes.  I understand now, that you meant to say "people's" and in that case, so did I.  I didn't assume you had a negative motive but rather a focus on self, without concern for another, although now I mean "people" could have that without concern for other "people".  On the other hand, didn't you make the initial statement in a personal sense, in regard to your own personal idea and feelings?

Are we having fun yet??

I did actually feel bad afterwards for using the word "selfish" because I knew I was doing exactly as I was trying point out as being not the thing to do (being blunt and doing it as an example but at the same time....I knew it might produce the same outcome, which it seems it did, cause you harm, hurt your personal feelings, which I did not mean to do, and which I am sorry for--I'm sorry for calling you a name).

You know, when people project it is really hard for them to see it themselves. They'll fight tooth 'n nail on it I tell ya---

Agreed.

I relate to a point you are making with me.

I can relate to your relating to "a point" but not the one I was making.

Ok then.  Have it your way.

Enjoy those wings (or alphalpha sprouts).  Whichever voice gets to be boss.

I'm trying to make healthy food choices and doing a fair job lately.
So I can definately relate.

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to acknowledge your reply, guest. Thank you, and I appreciate your apology.  

Out of respect regarding what I said in my message above yours about ending our side-track in discussion from the original topic, I won't say any more on the subject between us.  

It was interesting while it lasted though! And I was actually beginning to "have fun", as you say , though I can also see why it might be best to heed the suggestion to end it.

i'm a bit awkward at knowing what to say in endings---  Er--we'll always have Paris?  heh

[mum]

Ouch, my head hurts.  Um, what would we like this thread to be about, anyway?  I'm going with the bit about women and abuse.
      No1where:  I have a friend who is certain (and this is not the first place I have heard it) that women like men with a little bit of "bad"....that the really nice guys are a bore.  She totally "got" why I married my exN husbands, and doesn't get why I love my nice guy.  Oh, by the way, she has some pretty major head issues...men/realtionships in general being some of many.
      In my own case, it took me years to figure out.  And in many years more, I may come to some other conclusions. But here are a few:
I had a pretty good childhood, with parents who were majorly in love and respectful of each other, so I didn't "learn" to accept abuse.  Instead, I had no clue what that was, but really thought I could fix someone's problems.  
Despite my pretty good childhood, I had lingering esteem issues, more tied to the Catholic church (ok, so my parents did do that to me!) than anything....as a "sinner", part of me sought out validation for my negative self concept and rejected true loving behavoir in exchange for "dicey".
When I  realized I could love and forgive myself completely
(took some real core belief changing), I could not accept less from a partner.
So when people say: women like abuse, maybe they mean women who don't like themselves like abuse.  
Could that be it?

[Anonymous]

You're welcome.

So did you have the wings or tomatoes and cucs (and I hope, at least, alphapha sprouts)?

Looking forward to Paris.

Yes, out of respect.  Good idea.  Back to the original topic.

[Anonymous]

So when people say: women like abuse, maybe they mean women who don't like themselves like abuse.
Could that be it?

More likely, women who don't like themselves think they deserve abuse.

[Anonymous]

Tomatos and cuc's--  No alfalfa in the house or would've. But I sprinkled flax seeds, and that should count for a lot.  

[Anonymous]

Ok-it’s me, above guest, posting on the topic  

So when people say: women like abuse, maybe they mean women who don't like themselves like abuse.  Could that be it?

 
I’d say “women who don’t like themselves” can have several deeper issues that tend to leave them more vulnerable to putting up with it.  

For example, abandonment issues, “emotional dance” issues that they learned from childhood that are so familiar to where it is all they know how to play out, or they are trying to fix a childhood pain/right a childhood wrong aspect of a relationship with a parent. Trying to fill a desperate inner need--but just in the wrong way.

But I think as eluded to, the crux is self esteem. No one with a healthy and strong self esteem would put up with abuse.  

The sad thing is that it can take so little to damage the self esteem of a child and so long to build it up again once it’s happened.  

[Anonymous]

The sad thing is that it can take so little to damage the self esteem of a child and so long to build it up again once it’s happened.

Isn't this the bottom line?   And once that child grows into an adult, with poor self esteem, if they end up involved in an abusive relationship, is it so surprising?

So the beginning of the cure then, might be to improve the self esteem?  (cure being--the person gets what is needed to help them leave the abusive relationship).

GFN