Author Topic: A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women  (Read 8567 times)

no1where

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« on: February 03, 2005, 03:18:35 AM »
In the course of the last twenty years, a lot of attention has been given to the idea of co-dependency, in fact, so much attention was given to this co-dependency theory that therapist eventually concluded that placing the abusee in the role of co-conspirator to her* own abuse was counterproductive in terms of theraputic value, thus, the brunt of the blame shifted back towards the perpetrator of the abuse.

Given the inherent nature of the malignant narcissist, i.e.: a propensity to seek external rationalization for the misdeeds they commit, this shift in blame back to the abuser is wholly appropriate in terms of theraputic value.

I qualify that last statement with "in terms of theraputic value" because, as I noted, the theraputic rationale is sound; however, given my recent (mercifully brief) bout with Mr. NWonderful, and my subsequent research, it became clear to me that there is indeed a co-dependent component, and that, indeed, through her own complacence and aquiesence, the abusee is partially to blame for her own predicament.

This, of course, in no way is justification for the N's abuse, but it is indicative of how and why this behavior is perpetuated through the generations.  There is one vast difference between history and its modern anticendents: given the social limitations placed upon the options of women in historical times, our feminine forebears possessed more logically legitimate reasons for tolerating abusive situations than do the women of the modern age.

Given this considerably greater cultural latitude, what then possesses these women to suffer years of degredation, humiliation, violence and suffering in the name of some twisted form of unrequited love?  

My friend posits that women who are attracted to abusive men, quite simply, like abuse. They like to be spanked, violated, bruised, to sting.  My friend believes this behavior stems from a pathologically maladaptive interpretation of affection (perhaps rooted in early trauma), and/or a neurogenetic tolerance to pain, such as female redheads have been proven to exhibit.

I dunno about all that, all I know is that I went on high alert the first time this new N guy was pointlessly mean to me.  I didn't give the loser time to rough me up with those big old hands of his, I tossed his ass to the curb for unprovokedly calling me a cu%$  Shoo, I got tired of his Mr Pounty-Face infantile dooky slinging fast.

This rejection of abuse at least demonstrates that individuals who have been previously abused do not necessarily seek to relive old abuse patterns through new abusive partners.

So, where's Waldo? Eh?  Why, given the exact same life circumstances, do some individuals ignore/embrace the escating abuses and others reject it?  Is it a matter of education?  I'm a drop-out.  Can't be that.  Self esteem? I've got pretty flaky self-esteem myself . . . can't be that.  It's not that I'm not lonely.  I missed the heck out of him today, frankly.  But, noooo, I learned when I was a kid that I didn't like people who were bigger than me picking on me.  So.

What_is_it?  It.  It. What is that mysterious variance of temperment or situation or ethos that makes some people compulsively repeat lifelong abusive relationship patterns, while others do not?

Is the outcome symptomatic of the abusees particular personality disorder?  Some abused women* turn into co-dependents, some abused women* are BPD, some of them are multiples, others are schizoid; heck, some abused women* have sworn off men* altogether.

Or maybe my buddy is correct in his analysis, some people're just into masochism.

Heck if I know, but if I could figger it out, mayhap save a young'un from travelin' that dark n highway.  Ayup.



*Arbitrary gender designation.

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2005, 05:37:56 AM »
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Why, given the exact same life circumstances, do some individuals ignore/embrace the escating abuses and others reject it?


Hiya, I guess this is your main Q hey? I put up with escalating abuse from a bloke for 6 months. Then I woke up one day and thought, "enough is enough". It was that clear and simple. I'd been mind-f*cked enough and some survival mechanism kicked in. I realised that if I stayed any longer, it would more difficult to get out because I was disintegrating inside. Falling apart.

That survival mechanism also shouted in my head, it's NOT LOVE. You don't love him and he doesn't love you.

Why do women stay? What do they always say - oh but he LOVES ME really. And then they break enough bones for the woman to realise this 'love' is going to kill her. Some women are so badly damaged by childhood that of course they stay, whatever, and die (or murder). But just because someone is staying now, doesn't mean they won't leave at some future point. It just has to get to their particular wake up point.

It's all shades of grey/gray. No two people have exactly the same experiences in life, even twins. Even if we have similar experiences happen to us, we interpret those experiences in different ways.

We're all different :D Ain't that a good thing! Portia

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2005, 08:09:54 AM »
Hi.

Quote
My friend posits that women who are attracted to abusive men, quite simply, like abuse.


I’d ask him what he means by like. If he means it’s all they know, okay. If he means ‘enjoy’ like kids enjoy ice-cream, I’d start running now.

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My friend believes this behavior stems from a pathologically maladaptive interpretation of affection (perhaps rooted in early trauma),

I think the reason we get confused about what affection is, is only because of our childhood. Where else would we get these ideas from? Is your friend using the words like ‘pathologically maladaptive’ or are you? I ask because I don’t like the sound of your friend so far. If those are his words, I’d say he’s trying to sound superior with little understanding of what he’s talking about. If those are your words, try putting these ideas into common words. Using terms like those can sometimes obscure the meanings. The more complex the language, the easier it can be to obfuscate! Or conceal, confuse, complicate….

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and/or a neurogenetic tolerance to pain, such as female redheads have been proven to exhibit.

This sounds like a good excuse for those who wish to hurt women, because ‘they don’t feel the pain so much’. I wonder what the objective behind the redhead experiment was? What were they looking to prove or disprove? The objective usually determines the outcome of such tests.

It has been proven that certain races are inferior to others in terms of intelligence. Of course, it depends what you mean by intelligence and how you measure it! I’d take such proven things with a good pinch of salt.  

Does your friend generally like having his views questioned? Does he change his views when he has more information? Just a pointer for you perhaps.

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2005, 09:27:32 AM »
I  find your friend's posit neither overly complex nor obfuscating - just a tad simplistic. As Guest pointed out, defining "like" is pertinent.

When I read your friend's words, I think of "like" to mean "made comfortable". Not comfortable in the sense of "feels good", but in the sense of familiarity.

This holds up if one subscribes to the idea that people re-create the past in order to work out the meaning of it for themselves, either physically or emotionally (or both). Ditto if one believes, as I do, that abusive people are not attracted to us, but rather we are attracted to them and seek them out/make ourselves available, consciously or not. If one has grown up in an environment of physical/emotional abuse, one becomes adept at reading even the most subtle signals of a potentilal abuser, even if we don't know that we are reading.

Masochism is a slightly different animal, but sometimes related. I have met a few otherwise intelligent, bright and successful wonmen who are actually physically/sexually masochistic in their leanings, but who, instead of calling a spade a spade and seeking a relationship specifically based on physical/sexual masochism, cloak that desire by seeking men who are just mean and dangerous in the secret hope that they'll come through with the goods without a specific request from the abusee/masochist. They rationalize these choices in numerous ways (but he loves me! but he is sometimes so good! He's exciting and never dull!). They often do have emotional issues tied up in those hidden desires, but they shield themselves from this idea, as well as the sexual masochism aspect, because it makes them feel "icky" on both counts. They NEED to be the "innocent victim" so they can avoid the socially unacceptable truth about themselves.

Of course, this doesn't work, because the "meaness" of the targeted abuser is generalized rather than specific, thus there is no opportunity for the abusee/masochist to explore that aspect of h/er sexuality/related emotional landscape with freedom and safety. They remain dependent upon the whim of the abuser, rather than in control of/a full participant in their experience. These wo/men would be much happier people if they could overcome their dis-ease with their own feelings/preoccupations.

I went through a long period of somewhat veiled sexual masochism. I would be attracted to "dangerous" types, but like no1where, could not stick around long because their overall character was reprehensible and, well, mean and abusive. Then one day "I caled a spade a spade", found a great realtionship (relatively short term, a couple of months) based on the physical aspects, worked out my desire AND my emotional pain/fury/whatever for awhile, then promptly got over it. In the end I was satisfied, freed, and no longer interested, and had managed this under safe conditions with honesty to myself and partner of the moment. To this day, I remember it fondly bu thave no desire to explore there again. My work there is done.

I am also, however, green-eyed and slightly strawberry-tressed. Hmmm.

Most abusee-types are probably not sexually masochistic, however. I think it is a problem of intelligence - not in the intellectual acuity sense, but in the information sense (as in Central Intelligence Agency). If your entire early life experience informs you that relationships are inevitably abusive and/or that you cannot really know your intimates and must always guess what they really mean/are, then one is probably all the more susceptible to repating the pattern over and over.

Then, of course, ther are the the others, whose early experiences did not adequately inform them of potential danger and its related signals, who approach dynamic, exciting, mercurial abuser types with starry-eyed innocence, finding that they learn about said dangers only after they've been burned, sometimes badly.

In summary, I think there are many different ways of becoming enmeshed in an abusive realtionship. These are probably a good sample, but to be sure there are more, as each situation has its own nuance.

The key to staying out of these relationships is self-knowledge and self-awareness, by and large.

T

bunny

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2005, 10:02:31 AM »
No they don't "like" abuse. There is an excellent book that explains what happens in abusive relationships. You will understand why some women stay as opposed to others. It's the last word on the subject as far as I'm concerned...

THE ILLUSION OF LOVE by David Celani


bunny

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2005, 10:04:32 AM »
They did an experiment(I think in Japan) Where three bottles of rice were kept ---one that they prayed for and talked sweetly to every day, one that they abused every day, and one that they just ignored. At the end of the month, the one that was talked nice to and prayed for was healthy and white, the one that they abused was grey and unhealthy, but the one that they ignored was completely blackened and dead.

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2005, 10:54:22 AM »
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I find your friend's posit neither overly complex nor obfuscating


No surprise there--you sound precisely like the same person who wrote the original message. Maybe it is just a coincidence  :wink: , but the writing style/feel and stiff word use is indentical.

For the record, I agree completely with the guest you are replying to.

I mean, to each their own, and you are welcome to your own writing style for sure, but I have to tell you that I suffered through the reading of your message. Not out of non-understanding, but other annoyances.  

Couldn't figure out if you were borderline attempting to troll a little, either. Just by the way some things were said.  But benefit of the doubt that you weren't, you did raise a good question [which has been addressed nicely by others].

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2005, 11:03:51 AM »
Churchill would appreciate  :D
the guest who was agreed with

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2005, 11:19:13 AM »
I'm sorry that my writing styles offends you and causes you suffering, and that you find it stiff.

I don't believe that my style is identical to that of no1where; she  seems to be much less guarded and careful about her content/approach, despite what you feel is "stiff" word use. I feel our personalities are quite different, although doubtless compatible is some ways...I happen to LIKE (as in ice cream) her writing style and don't find it a bit stiff. And I LIKE the fact that she is unafraid to pose some challenging questions.

I always write assuming that people will understand what I'm saying, although I don't generally imagine that they will be annoyed by the writing itself. Perhaps the content, but not the writing. However, I have found that on this message board, albeit nowhere else, that has been true in a few cases. I can't imagine what the difference is, can you? Could it  be the general low self-esteem or general high level of anger that some posters exhibit due their unfortunate experiences? I dunno, but I feel pretty certain that most people find it a waste of their personal time to lodge complaints about style if they are not especially interested in having a dialogue with me, as is implicit in your post.

I am not a troll, nor am I the same person as no1where. I have established an identity here, for better or worse.

I agree with you when you say "to each his own", and although I find arbitrarily critical posts such as yours highly annoying, you certainly have every right to make them. Lucky for me, I don't feel that I'm suffering when I read them.

On the upside, you found somewhere a good question in the midst of your terrible suffering, so I suppose it is not a complete loss for you. I would hate to think that my post was merely a drain on your resources.

T

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2005, 11:31:22 AM »
Some women stay because they do not want these monsters to have the children have to go alone every other weekend to a monsters house without protection.I know I stayed for that reason alone.

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2005, 11:51:47 AM »
That's a tough place to be - I'm sorry you feel so trapped.

The reasons for getting into such a relationship in the first place are myriad and complex - all the more so for staying there even after you know it's all wrong.

I hope you find a way to break free without further harm to yourself or your children.

T

pandora as guest

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2005, 12:31:49 PM »
I "put up with" some bad treatment when I was married.   I don't think that I am particularly masochistic or codependent.    

Reasons why it took a while to see what was happening:

1.  The changes for the worst were gradual.  At first incidents would only happen a few times a year.  Then everything would be OK.  This makes it easier to believe that you must have misunderstood, and anyway everyone has bad days.  

2.  His bad moods and behavior seemed linked to external circumstances - his job, where we lived, etc.   Stressful situations at work or elsewhere can bring out the worst in anyone.  So it is easy to believe that once his job  settles down, once we move to a better house, etc., he will be happier and treat me better.  It was only after those things happened and things did not improve - quite the opposite - that I began to realize that something was reallly wrong.  Since he could no longer blame the job or the house for his unhappiness, he turned it all on me.  

3.  I, like many other people, did not want to fail at my marriage.   Even though I really feel that I had to leave, I still struggle with this.  

4.  I loved him and I wanted to believe the best of him.  I wanted to help him and protect him.  This was the real source of all my "mistakes" and why I "put up with" bad treatment.  It is why I tried to keep reaching him even when I knew he was lying to me.  I wanted to give him a chance to turn around.  I wanted to forgive him.  I don't think this was co-dependent or pathological.  

I did leave, finally, when it became clear to me that he was bent on continuing his destructive actions.  I did not have to deal with many of the complicating factors that so many others have to face - children, money, etc.   I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be then.  
 


When I look back, I can see that there were red flags that I perhaps missed or ignored.  But at the same time, many things did not surface until we had been married several years.  So I don't think it is just a matter of my blindness and poor judgement.  I am not even sure that it was a mistake to marry him.  Something changed in him - traits that initially were minor became magnified.  


My feelings about it are very complicated.  In one sense, I am grateful to have escaped, and am getting on with my life quite successfully.  At the same time I am devastated - at my failure to keep it together, at the sheer depth of his lies and deceit, and by the loss of my husband - someone who I now feel that I never knew, despite all we shared.  

Thanks for letting me share.

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2005, 05:13:12 PM »
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I feel pretty certain that most people find it a waste of their personal time to lodge complaints about style if they are not especially interested in having a dialogue with me, as is implicit in your post.


You're wrong on that one, in my humble opinion of course. Sometimes it's just dam cathartic to tell someone bluntly [but politely enough], what you are thinking. And sometimes it even helps the person on the receiving end do some introspection.  

Quote

so I suppose it is not a complete loss for you. I would hate to think that my post was merely a drain on your resources.


Not to worry--only about 40% at the time, and I've fully recovered now. I admit I do have to learn how not to let certain things bother me so much, but we all have our achilles heel(s), don't we.  I'm enjoying reading through the interesting responses as least, so you are very right.  Not a complete loss at all.

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2005, 05:47:22 PM »
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Sometimes it's just dam cathartic to tell someone bluntly [but politely enough], what you are thinking. And sometimes it even helps the person on the receiving end do some introspection.


And sometimes, your words are harmful, all to purge your own selfish, cathartic need without concern for that consequence.

Those who harmed me used blunt, polite, (which was confusing), communication.  How about you?

Anonymous

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A Friend's Controversial Theory on Abused Women
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2005, 06:27:14 PM »
Quote

And sometimes, your words are harmful, all to purge your own selfish, cathartic need without concern for that consequence.

Those who harmed me used blunt, polite, (which was confusing), communication. How about you?


Now, now--  deeeeep breath in, hold for 10-----  annnnd release---

That is --  "sometimes peoples words are-- "   I am not one of the ones that harmed you so don't project the wrath of the painful others onto me. I do feel sad if I stirred that somehow in you.  There are lots of things that can trigger our sensitivities in life and it can't be helped, but I personally would not like to view myself as the brunt of such a thing.

I can't pick out anything I said that could be near harsh enough to "emotionally hurt or scar you". If you have an oversensitivity then best look at the etiology of that and not displace on a peripheral object of propinquity [yowza  :shock: -- your writing style might be catchy!]

And yes, it was more of a vent message than a diagloge message, which can very normally happen on such message boards, though can also at times be evoked by certain "catalysts". But truth be told, I was actually being more on the thoughtful and selfless side in my reply. I very kindly left out a portion of my thoughts, and what I said out loud.    

Anyway, I had no inkling that you'd give me the power to upset you so much. I don't really want it so please take it back and accept my genuine apology if it will help.