Author Topic: Anything  (Read 492146 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Anything
« Reply #630 on: April 18, 2006, 10:20:56 AM »
I think one reason I became a Unitarian Universalist was because of the belief in universal salvation. As a little kid, some theology I was taught felt like a "bless yer heart":

God may burn you in the eternal flames of hell but he loves you so much, bless your heart.

Whack! Pat! Yowsa. My little head spun, and I guess it never stopped.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Marta

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Re: Anything
« Reply #631 on: April 18, 2006, 12:21:30 PM »
Archaic Torso of Apollo
   
 
We cannot know his legendary head
with eyes like ripening fruit. And yet his torso
is still suffused with brilliance from inside,
like a lamp, in which his gaze, now turned to low,

gleams in all its power. Otherwise
the curved breast could not dazzle you so, nor could
a smile run through the placid hips and thighs
to that dark center where procreation flared.

Otherwise this stone would seem defaced
beneath the translucent cascade of the shoulders
and would not glisten like a wild beast’s fur:

would not, from all the borders of itself,
burst like a star: for here there is no place
that does not see you. You must change your life.

Rainer Maria Rilke 


Diving into the wreck

First having read the book of myths,
and loaded the camera,
and checked the edge of the knife-blade,
I put on
the body-armor of black rubber
the absurd flippers
the grave and awkward mask.
I am having to do this
not like Cousteau with his
assiduous team
aboard the sun-flooded schooner
but here alone.

There is a ladder.
The ladder is always there
hanging innocently
close to the side of the schooner.
We know what it is for,
we who have used it.
Otherwise
it is a piece of maritime floss
some sundry equipment.

I go down.
Rung after rung and still
the oxygen immerses me
the blue light
the clear atoms
of our human air.
I go down.
My flippers cripple me,
I crawl like an insect down the ladder
and there is no one
to tell me when the ocean
will begin.

First the air is blue and then
it is bluer and then green and then
black I am blacking out and yet
my mask is powerful
it pumps my blood with power
the sea is another story
the sea is not a question of power
I have to learn alone
to turn my body without force
in the deep element.

And now: it is easy to forget
what I came for
among so many who have always
lived here
swaying their crenellated fans
between the reefs
and besides
you breathe differently down here.

I came to explore the wreck.
The words are purposes.
The words are maps.
I came to see the damage that was done
and the treasures that prevail.
I stroke the beam of my lamp
slowly along the flank
of something more permanent
than fish or weed

the thing I came for:
the wreck and not the story of the wreck
the thing itself and not the myth
the drowned face always staring
toward the sun
the evidence of damage
worn by salt and away into this threadbare beauty
the ribs of the disaster
curving their assertion
among the tentative haunters.

This is the place.
And I am here, the mermaid whose dark hair
streams black, the merman in his armored body.
We circle silently
about the wreck
we dive into the hold.
I am she: I am he

whose drowned face sleeps with open eyes
whose breasts still bear the stress
whose silver, copper, vermeil cargo lies
obscurely inside barrels
half-wedged and left to rot
we are the half-destroyed instruments
that once held to a course
the water-eaten log
the fouled compass

We are, I am, you are
by cowardice or courage
the one who find our way
back to this scene
carrying a knife, a camera
a book of myths
in which
our names do not appear.

--Adrienne Rich
 

ANewSheriff

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Re: Anything
« Reply #632 on: April 18, 2006, 07:52:27 PM »
Hopalong: 
Quote
"She's as big as a heifer blessherheart..."
"He drinks like a fish blesshisheart..."
"And she has such buck teeth blessherheart..." etc.

That is so funny.  I am still laughing.  Thank you...

Teartracks: 
Quote
The Mom would get a big pinch of flesh and all but wring it off the bone, while communicating clearly with her look that if the kid even grimaced, there was more where that came from.  Is this purely a southern practice?

I know of quite a few Catholic families that practice this ritual in the Midwest.   :lol:
Change the way you see the world and you will change the world.

moonlight52

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Re: Anything
« Reply #633 on: April 18, 2006, 09:23:17 PM »
Marta  The poems are deeply moving   Thank you
                        Moonlight
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 10:16:59 PM by moonlight52 »

Marta

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Re: Anything
« Reply #634 on: April 24, 2006, 01:55:51 AM »
((((((((((Layers)))))))))))

I have walked through many lives,
some of them my own,
and I am not who I was,
though some principle of being
abides, from which I struggle
not to stray.
When I look behind,
as I am compelled to look
before I can gather strength
to proceed on my journey,
I see the milestones dwindling
toward the horizon
and the slow fires trailing
from the abandoned camp-sites,
over which scavenger angels
wheel on heavy wings.
Oh, I have made myself a tribe
out of my true affections,
and my tribe is scattered!
How shall the heart be reconciled
to its feast of losses?
In a rising wind
the manic dust of my friends,
those who fell along the way,
bitterly stings my face.
Yet I turn, I turn,
exulting somewhat,
with my will intact to go
wherever I need to go,
and every stone on the road
precious to me.
In my darkest night,
when the moon was covered
and I roamed through wreckage,
a nimbus-clouded voice
directed me:
"Live in the layers,
not on the litter."
Though I lack the art
to decipher it,
no doubt the next chapter
in my book of transformations
is already written.
I am not done with my changes.


-- Stanley Kunitz


Hopalong

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Re: Anything
« Reply #635 on: April 24, 2006, 09:23:57 AM »
I love Kunitz. He was a mentor of mine.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

moonlight52

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Re: Anything
« Reply #636 on: April 24, 2006, 12:58:00 PM »
Hello Marta     I have never read Stanley Kunitz I will now proceed to read everything of his I can .The hearts a funny thing we must let our hearts find a small safe sweet place to rest, a poem can be that place  .Great Poem
Moon
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 01:15:02 PM by moonlight52 »

moonlight52

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Re: Anything
« Reply #637 on: April 26, 2006, 03:13:23 PM »
Hi All                 Last year my oldest daughter started dating a young fellow she went to high school with,he had been out of state for 10 years.Over that time he had always written to my daughter.He has family here in our state.So when he moved back they saw each other dated 6 months and then moved in together after dating 6 months.My husband and I tried to get her not to move in with him .Well after 3 months and no red flags on Christmas Eve Eve of 2005 this fellow Hit my child in the head causing a artery to break and a blood clot to form in her head .Had she not been in such tip top physical shape I do not know if the outcome would have been as great as it as been.She had to have surgery to remove the blood clot.This fellow hit her because she wanted to go and visit with some girlfriends and he did not want her to go.and he kept her kidnapped for 4 hours.until she tricked him and got away to mom and dads house.My daughter is brave and 100% healed Thank goodness!
And lives at home for now.We just got news it will go to trial soon.My child sez she is not afraid of trial and just does not want any one else to get hurt by this guy .This fellow is in jail has a big bond and will get 8-10 years for what he did.My daughter is so brave.
Moon

« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 03:35:01 PM by moonlight52 »

Hopalong

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Re: Anything
« Reply #638 on: April 26, 2006, 05:44:55 PM »
Good lord, Moon. I am so sorry for what your D went through (and her parents too).
What a terrible experience, and what a blessing she's strong and has you and your DH.

I hope she heals completely and has no aftereffects.
I hope she memorizes these warning signs of an abuser:

http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/loser/index.html

Hugs to you both,

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

gratitude28

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Re: Anything
« Reply #639 on: April 26, 2006, 11:13:55 PM »
Yes your daughter is brave and so are you. You are doing the right thing by prosecuting him so that he can never do this to another person. God Bless you and may the law punish him to its full ability.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

moonlight52

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Re: Anything
« Reply #640 on: April 26, 2006, 11:54:43 PM »
Hi Hops and Gratitude  Our daughter's  doing well .She is going to school and has a part time job and seems to be happy to be home.
Truth be told her Dad and I are happy she is home. We are glad to  see both our girls safe in their beds at nite.Thanks HOPS for the information.We have just been going thur all kinds of emotions all protecting our sweetest one that got hurt so bad .But not forgetting the emotions of our little 13 year old. We have come a long way.We go to the park together or to the movies on the weekends a lot.Our oldest has gotten close to all her girl friends again and is just working on herself.My oldest is reading about relationships to see why she did not see any red flags on this guy .Well she sez I am the one that has put him in jail so he can not hurt any one else. She sez I guess God thought I was strong enough for the job.
Thats one way to look at it.We are just so lucky the 4 of us are all OK .Do I say my prayers of thanks at night yes I do.
Love and light
Moonlight

Sela

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Re: Anything
« Reply #641 on: May 01, 2006, 06:30:07 PM »
Hi all:

I was looking through some old magazines and an artical caught my eye: "The healing truth", by Curtis Foreman (Alive, vol no 258, April 2004, pg 106-108).  In it some information about "the complex relationship between physical and emotional health" was compared.   Here are some bits of the article:

Quote
"Ten years ago, my grandmother visited her doctor, complaining of stomach pains.  After a few tests, the results came in:  cancer.

She was frightened and upset, but immediately announced that she would have nothing to do with radiation or chemicals.

.........Much has been said about the value of positive thinking in dealing with cancer, but my grandmother's approach was anything but positive...............

...........Recovering from her surgery some months later, my grandmother refused painkillers.  "Those doctors just want to get everyone hooked." she confinded in me, glaring at the nurses.

..........The "fighting spirit" she demonstrated may be what many researchers have claimed significantly increases a person's ability to recover from cancer.

...........Cancer patients who keep up a false front in the name of 'positive attitude' are doing themselves a disservice.

..................negative emotions did not translate to a reduced likelihood of recovery from cancer.  Factors that did contribute included suppressing one's true self as unacceptable; feeling obliged to conform to social conventions; and sacrificing one's own desires for the sake of other people.  The supporting evidence was real and measurable---in one study she conducted, Temoshok found that melanoma patients who rated highter on a scale of emotional expression had less aggressive tumours and stronger T-cell immunity.

Temoshok's work revealed that an artificially positive outlook can actually be harmful.

.................For people diagnosed with cancer, one of the most difficult aspects of dealing with the illness can be the pressure to remain positive.  People who are naturally positive may thrive under this pressure, but for those with a different coping style, the exhortations to "think positively" may go against the grain.

More and more, we are learning that it is okay to react in different ways.  Some people will fight cancer with love, some with anger.  The important thing is to fight it.

.................Sadness, fear, and anger are natural responses to adversity.   It takes courage and honesty to express all our feelings, positive and negative, and it is the courageous and honest among us who stand the greatest chance of overcoming any obstacle placed before them.

And what of my grandmother, who fought her cancer with every stubborn, ill-tempered bone in her body?  Ten years later, she's still tending her own roses, thank you very much."

This really struck me.  I think I do cope, usually, with adversity by maintaining as positive an outlook as I can and now....I wonder.....have I done myself harm?  A disservice?  Maybe not, since it seems to be my personal way of getting by but I learned real quick that I might not be helping others by suggesting they do the same thing.  :shock: :oops: :oops:  Better be careful of that eh?

And who ever heard of fighting tooth and nail with every stubborn, ill-tempered bone having anything to do with surviving cancer???  :shock: :shock:
But it works sometimes, it seems!!!   :shock: :shock: 8)

Plus.......when I take this info and apply it to any basic situation where people have strong, reactive feelings to events/situations/circumstance (especially trauma and abuse)?????  It's that fighting spirit we all need (positive or negative, as suits us best, I guess).

Maybe I've misunderstood some people? :? :?  I think I might not have realized that their way of surviving (which could seem a little nasty to me) might be the exact thing that was needed in order for that person to make it through whatever they were withstanding.

And the biggie..........it sort of confimed what I've believed for so long......that getting the feelings out is the major factor in getting well (and that not doing that.....denying feelings.....holding them in.......pretending everything is ok.....being positive when it's not what one usually does........can set people back....maybe even waste much needed energy??? :shock:)......worse........allow the pain/cancer ......to keep growing!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:  (containing the real emotions = stalling progress of health???).

Finally, I have felt like I have suffered through cancer of my emotions.  Probably others will relate to that statement.  And now, I'm trying to nourish what's left and get to the most healthy state possible, which greatly includes......using my positive thinking/attitude/outlook to help myself, which works for me.

Maybe, others are trying to do the same thing but they're using a totally opposite (or what seems like it to me) method?

I've still lot's to learn, I think.

 :D Sela
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 06:52:56 PM by Sela »

pennyplant

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Re: Anything
« Reply #642 on: May 01, 2006, 07:17:53 PM »
Hi Sela,

I had a couple paragraphs all typed up in response to your post and then lost it all   :(  .

Try again:  This is an interesting topic to me.  I have always figured if positive attitude was necessary for cancer survival, then I was a goner!  When things go badly I get mad or sad.  But if healthy expression of whatever your real emotions are is the key, then maybe I've got a chance!  Just need to work on learning what my emotions are and being brave enough to feel them.

If you're interested in another aspect of this same topic, there is a series of newspaper articles by Alicia Parlette describing her battle with a rare form of cancer.  She is only in her twenties and is the daughter of a woman who died young of cancer.  In her articles she tells about her emotional state of mind through everything.  It is really complex.  It is at www.sfgate.com/alicia if you'd like to read the series.  For me personally, reading these articles helps me learn to tap into my own emotions which I learned to repress most of my life.

The positive attitude may be good in many ways if it is your natural bent.  Of the people I know who lived longer than expected with cancer, they all had what I would call a "can-do" attitude.  They lived life to the fullest possible measure while they still could.  Someone I knew who was given only months to live actually survived three years.  She was upbeat, because she really felt that way, and kept up all the normal activities as long as she possibly could.  Things she had taken joy in all her life.  My father had a prognosis of 6 to 18 months and made it 16  months.  But he had poor health to begin with so I think he did very well considering that.  He kept his mind busy, busy all the time searching for solutions to all the problems great and small that came along during the illness.  He gave himself goals and gave himself permission to express himself more than before.  He really tried to live while he was alive.

I've also known people who I thought were "too mean to die".  They sure didn't think they needed to fake it!

Your article makes a lot of sense.

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

Sela

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Re: Anything
« Reply #643 on: May 01, 2006, 08:14:25 PM »
Wow Penny!

There is so much there!  I read chapter 17 and I see so many positive things in Alicia's struggle, including the fact that she seems to just want to be real about what she feels.

When people are faced with life and death situations.......suddenly life........is worth fighting for (quite often, I think).

To me this is what I was getting at in posting this.  We are all the same and we are all different.  It doesn't matter what our beliefs are or what type of battle we are facing.  It's how we use our beliefs to help ourselves and how bravely and honestly we face the battle that will bring us safely through in the end (or in the case of the disease cancer.......has the best chance of bringing us through). 

Quote
I had a couple paragraphs all typed up in response to your post and then lost it all     .

Try again:

There's an example.  I hate it when that happens.....when I type a bunch of stuff and that green cybertooth monster (which is what I picture it as)....steals my posts!!  In your case.....

"Try again".

Way to go Penny!!  You're not a givver upper!!  :D :D

Quote
When things go badly I get mad or sad.

I think anger can be like fuel, in a way.  And sadness is just a way of not denying.  If you felt numb.....I'd be worried.  If you felt elated.  I'd be really worried. 

 "Yay!!  Things are going badly!!!"

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Can you imagine someone screaming that one from the roof tops??  :shock: :shock: :lol:

Quote
Just need to work on learning what my emotions are and being brave enough to feel them.

Me too.  I really have to pay attention to that.  Sometimes I don't have a clue.  I'm all brain.....thinking....and wheels turning and smoke puffing out from here and there until I pay attention. :oops: :oops: 

Quote
He really tried to live while he was alive.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad Penny.  :( :(  He sounds like he was an amazing person.  I love that he really tried to live while he was alive.

That's what I want to do only I don't want to wait until I'm dying to start doing it.

Life is just too darn short!!

Quote
I've also known people who I thought were "too mean to die".  They sure didn't think they needed to fake it!

Yep.  Gives "The good die young" real meaning doesn't it?  I don't really think that expression means age.  I think it means......humility.

Thanks for reading and posting Penny.  Always good to read you.

 :D Sela


pennyplant

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Re: Anything
« Reply #644 on: May 01, 2006, 10:05:09 PM »

There's an example.  I hate it when that happens.....when I type a bunch of stuff and that green cybertooth monster (which is what I picture it as)....steals my posts!!  ...............



I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad Penny.  :( :(  He sounds like he was an amazing person.  I love that he really tried to live while he was alive.

That's what I want to do only I don't want to wait until I'm dying to start doing it.

Life is just too darn short!!


Well, in this case I was the green cybertooth monster--meant to hit minimize and hit close instead   :?  .  Oh well, most of it came back to me!

Thank you, Sela.  I never thought my father was amazing until I got to see the real person.  He struggled a lot with his awkwardness socially and I think basically decided to keep it all inside so as not to make mistakes with people.  So, there were many, many misunderstandings and hurt feelings over the years.  So much "disconnect".  But with illness and cancer came the opportunity to see what the man was really made of.  And it turned out to be a really decent person in there.  Of course I can't go back in time to fix anything, and he even told me, when he was young he was just not capable of doing what it would have taken to make things work back then.  But that he figured it out and admitted it--well, I was impressed.

Yes, life is way too short and goes by way too fast.  Now is the time to make the most of it.

Thank you for the feedback (and the praise--which I don't usually handle too well   :oops:  ).

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon