Author Topic: Anything  (Read 492854 times)

Sela

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Re: Anything
« Reply #660 on: May 08, 2006, 10:26:13 AM »
Hi all:

Wow!  Busy week around here eh?

Hi Guestfornow!  Hey!  We have.....I guess....had the same name!  I used to be:  GFN until I changed my name to Sela.  I started this thread, way back when I was too chicken/or felt unworthy of(?? :shock:) starting a thread using any name.

Anyway, glad you're here.  I love what you posted and I hope you will decide to become more than a guest.
Welcome!!

Hi TT:  I liked what you posted about on line communication.  I think those are reasonable rules to pay attention to.  I'm sure I've broken the rules too, at times (mainly from ignorance but sometimes because I just reacted or was clumsy).  I hope I didn't offend you over on your thread with my silly humour?  I'm sorry if that happened.  It just came to my head when I was reading that that could have happened and if it did, I just want to say that I didn't mean to for it.  I was hoping to make you smile a little.  I hope that happened instead and maybe I'm just having one of those slightly paranoid moments.  :D

Hey ((((((P))))))):   How are you?   I hear your heart, I think.  It's a good heart P.

Hi RM:  You wrote:

Quote
We're supposed to care for widows and orphans and wounded people.

There are wounded people here.  :shock: Yep.  There are.

Sela


guestfornow

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Re: Anything
« Reply #661 on: May 08, 2006, 01:02:25 PM »
Thanks for the warm welcome, Sela.

Here's another tidbit on the concept of blaming....

1. There is no such thing as healthy guilt!

2. Blame is a manipulative tool used by someone who feels powerless to gain control.

3. The objective of blame is to make the recipient feel the same powerlessness.

4. The tool of blame only works to the degree that the recipient is willing to feel guilty.

5. Blame & guilt are a patterns learned in childhood (by both the sender & recipient) that must be released in order to have an effective and harmonious relationship

6. It only takes one partner to drop their part of the pattern to solve the conflict


P.S  If you found the above list helpful, let me know, so I can post where I found the rest of the info on dealing with blame and guilt in relationships.  I hope you find the info as helpful as I did.

Hopalong

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Re: Anything
« Reply #662 on: May 08, 2006, 01:13:21 PM »
Yes, please, Guest...do post an URL.

thank you,

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Brigid

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Re: Anything
« Reply #663 on: May 08, 2006, 01:17:17 PM »
Hi Guest for now (I thought it was you, Sela, using your old name  :?),
I enjoyed both the pieces you posted.  Yes, please give the URL.

I posted the following over a year ago, and thought it might be time to resurrect it.

Maybe

Maybe . . . God wanted us to meet the wrong people before
meeting the right one so that, when we finally meet
the right person, we will know how to be grateful for that gift.

Maybe . . . when the door of happiness closes, another opens;
but, often times, we look so long at the closed door that we don't
even see the new one which has been opened for us.

Maybe . . . it is true that we don't know what we have got until
we lose it, but it is also true that we don't know what we have
been missing until it arrives.

Maybe . . . the happiest of people don't necessarily have the best
of everything; they just make the most of everything that comes
along their way.

Maybe . . . the brightest future will always be based on a forgotten
past; after all, you can't go on successfully in life until you let go of
your past mistakes, failures and heartaches.

Maybe . . . you should dream what you want to dream; go where you
want to go; be what you want to be, because you only have one life
and one chance to do all the things you dream of and want to do.

Maybe . . . there are moments in life when you miss someone--a parent,
a spouse, a friend, a child--so much that you just want to pick them
from your dreams and hug them for real.

Maybe . . . the best kind of friend is the kind you can sit on a porch
and swing with, never say a word, and then walk away feeling like it
was the best conversation you've ever had.  We should all have one.

Maybe . . . you should always try to put yourself in others' shoes.
If you feel that something could hurt you, it probably will hurt the
other person, too.

Maybe . . . you should do something nice for someone every single
day, even if it is simply to leave them alone.

Maybe . . . giving someone all your love is never an assurance that
they will love you back.  Don't expect love in return; just wait for it
to grow in their heart; but if it doesn't, be content that it grew in yours.

Maybe . . . happiness waits for all those who cry, all those who hurt,
all those who have searched, and all those who have tried, for only
they can appreciate the importance of all the people who have touched
their lives.

Maybe . . . you shouldn't go for looks; they can deceive; don't go for
wealth; even that fades away.  Go for someone who makes you smile,
because it takes only a smile to make a dark day seem bright.  Find
the one that makes your heart smile.

Maybe . . . you should hope for enough happiness to make you sweet,
enough trials to make you strong, enough sorrow to keep you human,
and enough hope to make you happy.

And the last maybe . . . when you were born, you were crying and
everyone around you was smiling.

Maybe . . . you should try to live your life so that when you die,
you are the one who is smiling and everyone around you is crying.

Brigid

guestfornow

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Re: Anything
« Reply #664 on: May 08, 2006, 03:07:41 PM »
Sure thing.  I'm glad to post the web address to the rest of the article.  Please note the two consecutive posts I made came from the same site.  Please also be aware that the site can seem procative to some ppl, but if you peel away the surface and objectively examine the thoughts behind the words, it can be empowering, imo.

Here it is...

Tperkins.com

P.S.  I would love to hear your thoughts on it.  I think it has many good discussion points.

Hopalong

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Re: Anything
« Reply #665 on: May 08, 2006, 03:32:34 PM »
No thanks.
I don't care to look at nudity / erotica online.
Wish you'd mentioned that.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

guestfornow

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Re: Anything
« Reply #666 on: May 08, 2006, 04:21:37 PM »
I'm sorry I didn't mention about the sexuality part.  But I did say the site can be provocative.  The content of site has other topics besides human sexuality. 

If nobody minds, I will post the article on "guilt and blame" here, so those who abhor/detest some of the topics on the website can read it here.  At first glance, this article initially sounds like about a homosexuality relationship, however, if you read on, it's talks about the deeper issue of blame and guilt in any kind of relationships.

*******************************************************************************
"Blame and Guilt in Relationships" 
 
" I'm in the dog house again with my wife.
I don't know what I did,
but from the way she's reacting it must be pretty bad! "


The Blame/Guilt game has two players. The person who blames. The partner who says and does things with the intent to make the other person feel guilty. And the receiver of blame. The partner who takes on the guilt.

I've been in both a marriage and a gay partnership and in both relationships I attracted lovers who used guilt as their "tool of choice" in letting me know "I'd done something wrong." After years of struggling to get out from under this blanket of twisted emotions and painful conflicts I've finally come to understand the pattern and role of blame and guilt in a relationship.

My objective here is to share my insights on the topic so you can move through any patterns of guilt or blame you might have much quicker and more painlessly than I did.


Here are some General Concepts:


1. There is no such thing as healthy guilt!

2. Blame is a manipulative tool used by someone who feels powerless to gain control.

3. The objective of blame is to make the recipient feel the same powerlessness.

4. The tool of blame only works to the degree that the recipient is willing to feel guilty.

5. Blame & guilt are a patterns learned in childhood (by both the sender & recipient) that must be released in order to have an effective and harmonious relationship

6. It only takes one partner to drop their part of the pattern to solve the conflict


What does Blame/Guilt look like in a Relationship?
 

As the initiator, it's finding blame in your partner for unpleasant emotions or situations that you are experiencing. You feel things are being done "to you," beyond your control. That you are a victim of circumstances that only your partner can control (and you must suffer with.) A feeling of powerlessness.
   
As the receiver, it's your partner blaming YOU for making THEM feel bad. When someone blames you for doing something, and you start to feel bad, you have gone into the pattern of guilt. You feel guilty for something you did or didn't do. It's often a sense of powerlessness accompanied by a feeling that you can't do anything right. That no matter what you do, you're wrong. At it's extreme the situation seems very illogical (the other person's reasoning makes no sense) yet you somehow feel trapped in the situation anyway.
 
Here is an example:
I felt like I wanted to get out of the house, to go to the park and spend time with a friend of mine. I decided to go to the park that my wife and I always go to. When I tell her I'm going to the park with my friend, she gets upset. She says I'm not spending enough time with her and that she wants to go out too, but now she will be stuck in the house. That we never spend time at the park together anymore. (When we had just last week.) I argue that she is wrong and she starts to get emotional and starts yelling. Not liking the argument, I walk out feeling angry and confused. Later, after the anger calms down, you feel guilty and confused.


What is REALLY going on? 
 
A focus on being the powerless victim

The person has the pattern of putting the control for aspects of their life outside of themselves. They play the "victim game." They pretend that they are innocent victims to the world around them. Powerless to control their lives because of what other people are doing TO THEM. They feel they are trapped in a situation that is beyond their control. They see other people doing things that appear to limit their choices and freedom. Rather then seeking alternative ways of getting their needs met, they fixate on what is "blocking" their needs from being met. They can only see the "injustices" that other people are doing to them and how others are blocking them from attaining what they need. Life is something that is done "to them," rather than something that they can control. They feel powerless and will do whatever they can to try to regain control over the situations in their lives. Blaming is useful in exerting some control over other people.
   
Your own perceived inadequacies (weaknesses) brought forward
The person has the pattern of feeling that some aspect of what they think, say and do is always wrong. That people will be unhappy with their decisions and that what they most want to do is not right. That people will always seek to find fault in them. So as a result they try to hide the aspects of themselves they feel are wrong. They try to keep their perceived weaknesses secret and hidden.

Any secrets that they have will trigger self guilt. Any aspects of their life that they believe to be wrong or places they feel inadequate, will also trigger self guilt. In the end the "blamer" is merely pointing out guilt or shame that already exists in the mind of the "guilter". They are pointing it out because they noticed the "guilter's" perceived weaknesses and feel they can use it to exert some control.
 
 
So looking at the example about going to the park, here is what is happening:
 
My wife was choosing to feel upset because she felt I didn't want to spend time with her. She was choosing to feeling rejected and left alone. That she was now stuck in the house, the victim of something beyond her control. I say choosing, because she could also have chosen to view the situation as now having time to go do something with one of her friends. The issue is really that she puts herself in a viewpoint of not having any control over the situation. Rather than seeking another way that she could get her needs met (without me.) She makes herself a victim.   
I was tripping over my OWN guilt over feeling like I "should" be spending more time with my wife. Feeling my OWN guilt over choosing the same "romantic" park that my wife and I went to. I was also feeling guilty over spending time with a friend whom I felt very close to and the hidden secret (from my wife) that I felt very sexually attracted to my friend. The bottom line is that it was all my own "stuff" that I was feeling guilty over. I tried to just pretend my guilt didn't exist and hoped it would go away. It was just that my wife was bringing the guilt to the forefront because I was choosing to NOT be conscious of my guilt and release it. 
 
Where does the Blame/Guilt Pattern come from?
On a large scale, blame and guilt are societal patterns that are primarily products of demented religious organizations that have employed guilt and blame to control the populations. The old, "Do something we deem wrong and you'll burn in hell!" thing. (Seach the web for "Spiritual Abuse" for more info.)

On a localized scale, like most patterns, they come from situations in your early childhood. They are often reactions to or imitations of patterns that your parents had. A wife who uses blame to control the husband often had a mother who used blame to control the father. A pattern of guilt is an internalization of being told that you were a bad kid. You actually take on and believe that there are aspects of yourself that are inherently bad (when it's not true).

Like most patterns they can be very deeply emotionally rooted and effect EVERY area of your life in ways that are mostly transparent to you. But no where are these patterns more apparent then in your interaction within a relationship.

Relationships have the magical ability to bring out all your best qualities, and all of your negative patterns. The purpose is to become aware of the patterns, and to release them. But often these patterns are so transparent that all you notice is your partner behaving towards you in a manner that does not make you happy.

What to do about it:

1. Recognition
To see the pattern clearly and understand how it plays out in your life is the first thing that needs to happen. It's not until you can see the dynamics of the pattern that you can even realize what is going on. If you are reading this, you have already take a HUGE leap into this first step.

2. Responsibility
Realizing the role that you play in the pattern is the second step. It is often SO easy to simply blame your partner for THEIR component and not see your own component. While you are most likely right in identifying your partner's flaws, they are beyond your control. There is nothing you can do about your partner's patterns, you can only solve your own. The hard part is to take responsibility for YOUR part of the pattern. For blamers to see that they create themselves to be powerless victims. For guilters to see that they are harboring unprocessed guilt in their own minds. To see how you contribute to the conflict and realize that only YOU can actually change YOU. (There is the old saying, "When you point your finger at someone else, there are at least 3 fingers pointing back to you!") Focus only on your own pattern, pointing fingers at your partner is a waste of time.

3. Releasing
Find out what it takes to release YOUR pattern.
Realizing that the pattern IS NOT YOURS, does not belong to you, and NEVER belonged to you; that it was fed to you as a child and you just kinda took it on without questioning it, often helps you to release it.

For me realizing that this pattern is in the way of me reaching my highest spiritual potential as well as blocking my fulfilling my purpose in life is a powerful motivator. That God's vision of me is of a person who is whole, perfect and complete... and does not include this pattern. God sees me as free of this pattern. Asking for spiritual intervention, assistance in having the pattern removed, taken away. And acknowledging that I learned anything I needed to learn from this pattern and that I am now done with it. All these things assist me in letting go of patterns.


 

Look for the things in your life that support you in staying in a victim space. Friends, groups or activities that encourage you to be a victim will keep you in the blame pattern. Let go of anything that is not PERSONALLY EMPOWERING in your life. Analyzing the various aspects of your life will show you where you do things that keep you small and unempowered.

The biggest suggestion I have for you is to join the group called "Alanon." While it's a program that's designed for children and spouses of alcoholics, it is powerful regardless of what you consider your "reason" for why you are a victim. This 12 step program has a powerful ability to completely turn your life around and put YOU back in control of it. To give you back your serenity and peace of mind. It's primary purpose is to re-empower you to let go of the need to be the victim.
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
   
Look for the things in your life that promote your feeling bad or wrong. Friends or Religious organizations that encourage you to feel guilty. Move away from anything in your life that does not empower you or promote your finding the perfection that you really are. Find the strongest aspects of guilt you carry in your life and begin to work at debunking these things. In the end the objective is to let go of ALL guilt, all shame and all secrets. (This website is part of my process of doing just that!)

Secrets are things you are unwilling to share over fear the other people will judge you as bad. Practice radical honesty. Always "Tell your truth, and tell it quickly." Eliminate any secrets from your life by being completely open and honest in all ways at all times. The freedom you will find from this practice is IMMENSE!! Guilt can't hide in the light of day. Aim to have NO SECRETS from anyone and then guilt has no place to hide in your mind. This especially includes being honest with YOURSELF.

Here are some things that have worked powerfully for me in breaking down guilt:

A lot of guilt programming comes directly from your religious upbringing. Deprogram it:
Join a group/organization that believes in the innate perfection in man. The Church of Religious Science or Unity Church are two good examples. Joining a supportive organization will give you the tools and backing to change your belief system. To realize that you were NOT born inherently sinful. That you were born in the "image and likeness of God." That anything else is a lie.

Read "Conversations with God" Books 1,2,3 by: Neale Donald Walsch
Read "Tomorrow's God" by: Neale Donald Walsch
These books have single handedly trashed more bullshit beliefs from my brain then from ANY other single thing I have ever done! I can't say they will do the same for you... but what do you have to lose by trying??

If you are intellectual, research on the internet and read about the opposite of whatever you think is wrong with you. If you think there is something wrong with you sexually, read about people who are happily doing and living what you think (incorrectly) is wrong or bad. If you think you are too fat, read about people who are happy being larger. If you think your views on some topic are messed up, read other people who share the same views but think of them as being beneficial. In other words, change your thinking by getting a different and empowering viewpoint.

Gently start challenging your guilt by taking action
Example: I had an immense amount of guilt around the issue of my sexuality. I had guilt about possibly being gay and liking anal exploration. The more I began pushing my comfort zone by exploring these areas the more the guilt vanished. Today I am openly gay and have my own web pages on anal sex... it's safe to say this guilt is no longer a part of my life! :)
 
 
4. Vigilance & Support
The final step is to work towards paying conscious attention to your patterns and any other places in your life they might show up. Work towards COMPLETE FREEDOM from the pattern. Continually focusing on being completely free of your pattern will bring up any areas that may be lingering until you have completely freed yourself from the pattern.

Getting support is also very helpful. Talking with and spending time with people and organizations that can support your freedom and empowerment are extremely useful. Seek out people and organizations that can support you, avoid anyone who does not empower you.

 

Hopalong

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Re: Anything
« Reply #667 on: May 08, 2006, 04:32:35 PM »
Dear Guest,
I didn't say I "abhor" or "detest"--I just said I prefer not.

I did not expect to be sent to an URL with explicit material. I felt sandbagged. Not good for trust, in my case. I realize you may have felt you'd covered the bases by saying "provacative"--but when I've used the word here, it's been in reference to intellectually provocative...as in thought-provoking. So I was not prepared.

Just wanted to be clear. I'm not a prude, just don't like to be suprised by sexual material on the Internet, and prefer not to risk websites that feature it.

Thank you,
Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

guestfornow

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Re: Anything
« Reply #668 on: May 08, 2006, 05:42:13 PM »
Okay.  I could see how I could have covered the bases more.

Sela

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Re: Anything
« Reply #669 on: May 08, 2006, 11:43:24 PM »
Hi Guestfornow:

A whoopsie there eh?  Yikes!!  Gotta say, I don't go for that porn stuff either.  :shock: I find it nasty and degrading.   Whole other discussion there, I suppose eh?

But......I really like the article you posted.  I need to read it over about a thousand times to jam it into my one little functioning brain cell.  :D  There's a lot of sense in that article.

I could tatoo this line on my forehead:

Quote
The person has the pattern of putting the control for aspects of their life outside of themselves.

I wonder if people would read it and think I was gone coo coo?  :mrgreen: Maybe?  :roll:

I think it would help me, though, every time I looked in the mirror.  Especially on days when I knew I had to deal with .......certain people (and on edit: on days when I was feeling particularly sorry for myself).  :?

Thanks for posting.  Going back to read it again.

 :D Sela

PS on late nite edit:  Forgot to say:  Brigid.  Thankyou.  I love that "Maybe" thingy.  I've read it before....it might even be here somewhere on this thread?  :roll:  Can't remember.  But thanks.  I can't read it enough times.  So much good in that one.  Thankyou.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2006, 12:49:15 AM by Sela »

Sela

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Re: Anything
« Reply #670 on: May 11, 2006, 10:06:49 AM »
Since Mother's Day is coming up, I thought I'd post this:

Being A Mother
-- Author Unknown


After 21 years of marriage, my wife wanted me to take another woman out to dinner and a movie. She said, "I love you, but I know this other woman loves you too, and she would love to spend some time with you."

The other woman that my wife wanted me to visit was my MOTHER, who has been a widow for 19 years, but the demands of my work and my three children had made it possible to visit her only occasionally. That night I called to invite her to go out for dinner and a movie.

"What's wrong, are you well?" she asked. My mother is the type of woman who suspects that a late night call or a surprise invitation is a sign of bad news.

"I thought that it would be pleasant to spend some time with you," I responded. "Just the two of us." She thought about it for a moment, and then said, "I would like that very much."

That Friday after work, as I drove over to pick her up, I was a bit nervous. When I arrived at her house, I noticed that she, too, seemed to be nervous about our date. She waited in the door with her coat on. She had curled her hair and was wearing the dress that she had worn to celebrate her last wedding anniversary. She smiled from a face that was as radiant as an angel's.

"I told my friends that I was going to go out with my son, and they were impressed," she said, as she got into the car. "They can't wait to hear about our meeting."

We went to a restaurant that, although not elegant, was very nice and cozy. My mother took my arm as if she were the First Lady. After we sat down, I had to read the menu. Her eyes could only read large print. Half way through the entries, I lifted my eyes and saw Mom sitting there staring at me. A nostalgic smile was on her lips.

"It was I who used to have to read the menu when you were small," she said.

"Then it's time that you relax and let me return the favor," I responded.

During the dinner, we had an agreeable conversation - nothing extraordinary but catching up on recent events of each other's life. We talked so much that we missed the movie.

As we arrived at her house later, she said, "I'll go out with you again, but only if you let me invite you." I agreed.

"How was your dinner date?" asked my wife when I got home.

"Very nice. Much more so than I could have imagined," I answered.

A few days later, my mother died of a massive heart attack. It happened so suddenly that I didn't have a chance to do anything for her. Some time later, I received an envelope with a copy of a restaurant receipt from the same place mother and I had dined. An attached note said: "I paid this bill in advance. I wasn't sure that I could be there; but nevertheless, I paid for two plates - one for you and the other for your wife. You will never know what that night meant for me. I love you, son."

At that moment, I understood the importance of saying in time: "I LOVE YOU" and to give our loved ones the time that they deserve. Nothing in life is more important than your family. Give them the time they deserve, because these things cannot be put off till "some other time.”


SOME THOUGHTS ON MOTHERHOOD

Somebody said it takes about six weeks to get back to normal after you've had a baby... that somebody doesn't know that once you're a mother, "normal" is history.

Somebody said you learn how to be a mother by instinct... that somebody never took a three-year-old shopping.

Somebody said being a mother is boring... that somebody never rode in a car driven by a teenager with a driver's permit.

Somebody said if you're a "good" mother, your child will "turn out good"... that somebody thinks a child comes with directions and a guarantee.

Somebody said "good" mothers never raise their voices... that somebody never came out the back door just in time to see her child hit a golf ball through the neighbor's kitchen window.

Somebody said you don't need an education to be a mother... that somebody never helped a fourth grader with his math.

Somebody said you can't love the fifth child as much as you love the first... that somebody doesn't have five children.

Somebody said a mother can find all the answers to her child-rearing questions in the books... that somebody never had a child stuff beans up his nose or in his ears.

Somebody said the hardest part of being a mother is labor and delivery... that somebody never watched her "baby" get on the bus for the first day of kindergarten... or on a plane headed for military "boot camp."

Somebody said a mother can do her job with her eyes closed and one hand tied behind her back... that somebody never organized seven giggling Brownies to sell cookies.

Somebody said a mother can stop worrying after her child gets married... that somebody doesn't know that marriage adds a new son or daughter-in-law to a mother's heartstrings.

Somebody said a mother's job is done when her last child leaves home... that somebody never had grandchildren.

Blessed is the Mother...
Who can hold onto her children while letting them go;
Who puts a tranquil home ahead of an immaculate house;
Who knows a kind act will be remembered longer than an easy word;
Who really believes that prayer changes things;
Whose faith in the future sweetens the present; and
Whose sense of humor is alive and well.
-- The Promoter

Portia

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Re: Anything
« Reply #671 on: May 12, 2006, 08:51:34 AM »
Hiya Sela

A note for Kheng if he’s still reading re that website which I looked at (how could I not with my big nose?). But I knew what I might be looking at that makes a big difference.

I scanned the ‘watching porn’ article and thought, fair enough IF the porn you’re watching is how-to educational (but then is it 'porn'?) is home made and all people involved are consenting adults. I don’t agree with porn for commercial purposes …. even if you remove all the exploitation issues. Filming sex for others to watch? Would you watch a film of someone else eating a meal? It’s a big discussion, not on this thread I feel.

I really quite liked the nudity section, particularly liked completely shaved versus hairy and noticed even his eyebrows were shaved off. Odd effect. I even got as far as:
‘Extreme closeup. Gee... never realized how small my feet are’ and laughed.

I don’t feel threatened by anything on that site. I’m not sure that “There is no such thing as healthy guilt” is correct though. Guilt sometimes tells us when we have done something that hurts another person. If I’m asleep and dreaming and I thump the person next to me and wake up, I feel guilty that I’ve hurt them, albeit unintentionally. Is that guilt? I think guilt can tell us when we do have to take responsibility for our actions. It tells us “I’ve done something wrong” when we have. Of course there’s loads of unhealthy guilt, but I’m not sure I’d get rid of guilt. It’s a regulator that we acquire with conscience. If we have no conscience or guilt, we don’t recognise that our actions affect others. I know people like this and it isn’t healthy.

But back to nudity. I did life-modelling for an art drawing class many years ago. It’s odd taking your clothes off in front of strangers at first, but nothing special about it. It depends on the reactions of those around you and your consideration for them. __________________________________________


Sela, hope that wasn’t too off the wall for the Anything thread.

Mother’s day. It probably deserves a thread of it’s own. I like your posts. The story was incredible. How…normal.

I can feel myself reacting to the list of thoughts though. Thinking yes, for normal mothers this must be how it is. I’m not sure reading normal is good for me though; I still become angry and sad. I’m sure some people do have this. I know they do. The problem is we don’t have a Children’s Day. I think we should, if we’re going to have Mother’s Day.

When we have Children’s Day, I’ll be happier. Does that make sense? (Actually we might get rid of all these commercially-driven ‘days’ and think about love instead!)


Hop guest

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Re: Anything
« Reply #672 on: May 12, 2006, 09:48:29 AM »
Hi Sela and Portia,

Thought I'd chime in on this because I'm sort of impassioned (uselessly) about it.
I was an artist's model too, a couple of times, in college and shortly after. I love the miraculous invention of our bodies, love lovemaking (rare though it is). Erotica's fine too except I don't feel the need, since I got eyeballs, a heart and a big imagination.

But. I LOATHE pornography. My simplest reasoning is that I think of that industry as on a curve:
kiddie porn at one end (add in chid-rape and trafficking to those mental images) and snuff films (the intentional murder of women during filmed sex) at the other. So when "mainstream" people I know of any persuasion talk about porn as though it's like a "hip" kind of movie, my ears steam.

The other reason is kids. The Niagara of sexual imagery that is blasted at them from every corner is, I believe, truly, genuinely, damaging to their psyches and ability to form loving, intimate relationships as adults.

The Internet has such a dark side...it's like splitting the atom was. Example. Now and then when I'm blue or bored I like to read stories about heroic animals or sweet unusual animal friendships. Anyway, the other day I typed into my search engine something as simple as "animal stories online" (something ANY 8-year-old might easily do, and has, I'm sure) and instantly was treated to a flood of bestiality sites.

It's out of control and I think the whole "civilized" world is lunging down a very dark slope.

Thanks for listening, sorry for the bleak thoughts, but it does feel better to express them.

Hops


Portia

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Re: Anything
« Reply #673 on: May 12, 2006, 10:01:02 AM »
Agree with every word Hops and no, not bleak, just spot on! Not bleak, no! :D

Erotica's fine too except I don't feel the need, since I got eyeballs, a heart and a big imagination.

Yep. The problem with any of this is, if you need artificial stimulation, hey – you don’t wanna do it in the first place. Do something else. Go hang-gliding, watch a movie, go for a walk, get some imagination! Life is more than putting a part of your body in to or on to someone else’s – it’s just not that important!!! And if you flog it, it WILL get boring.

Again, consumerism encourages us to be both screwed up by (haha) and obsessed with sex and it just isn’t that big a deal.

Intimacy is a huge deal and that ain’t sex (actually that website said some good stuff about intimacy v. sex but it was a bit too narrowly focused on the body for me, hey, I gotta a brain too).

Not bleak Hops, a darn good subject and well said.  8)

PS Can you hold that pose for half an hour? (I went to faint once :o the students went into a total panic - what do you do with a naked person who's about to faint? haha they didn't want to touch me! Very funny.)

Sela

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Re: Anything
« Reply #674 on: May 12, 2006, 10:04:32 AM »
Hey P and Hops:

Hey Portia:  Can anything be too off the wall for the Anything thread?  I doubt it.  Anything pretty much goes eh?

Quote
It's out of control and I think the whole "civilized" world is lunging down a very dark slope.


Hops, I get that feeling too sometimes.  It's scary isn't it?  Makes me want to scream out the words:  "Where has respect gone??"

But ofcourse, it all narrows down to one giant factor.  Mooola.

There are huge amounts of money being made from this stuff and that's the bottom line.  My H and I recently watched the movie:  "Human Trafficking" (which is a very disturbing movie imo....not easy to watch....be warned).   I didn't realize that next to drugs and guns......the trafficking of humans for slaves is the next most profitable business!  :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:  The third most profitable business!!!!!

That movie is about sex slaves but they do show how porn interlinks with the whole business.  The whole mess is horrible, if you ask me.   I wish it could be stopped.  :( :( :(  

P,  Re Mother's Day and reading about normal stuff:   I'm sorry it brings up angry and sad feelings for you.  I bet it is maddening to have had a mother who wasn't "normal" didn't do "normal" stuff.  You got ripped off P and that is very maddening!!  And sad too.  So sorry (((((((((little P)))))))))). :x :x :( :( :x :x :( :(

I think it's worth having a day to celebrate and show appreciation for Mothers.  I like your idea of thinking about love.  Hey!  We could have a  "Love Day" too!  That's kinda what Valentine's means to me, I guess.  I'd like it if it was renamed "Love Day"!!  8) 8) 8)

Yes, these special days have become very commercial.  It's too bad.  I liked it much better when I got the tin can covered with macaroni, the glued pieces of tissue paper on a card and the  little unidentifiable figurines made out of playdough.

I do think time.....is the most precious gift of all.  It's priceless eh?

 :D Sela