Ex Dilemma

[October]

My ex is visiting because it is my daughter's birthday tomorrow (she will be 12; a very mature, sensible 12.)  He is staying over in the spare room.  Last time he slept on the couch downstairs, but the rule today is, in the spare room or in your car.  (He does territorial stuff like a puppy peeing everywhere.  When he leaves I have to clean everything.  I don't want to be too gross, but he leaves the bathroom in a shocking state.)  

Anyway, after he had taken her into town - against my better judgement because I didn't want her in the car with him - I went through his bag, as I always do.  I check for drink because he is an alcoholic.  A couple of visits ago I found some (white cider), but I never told him.

This time I found one of those plastic loop things, that holds cans together, so I know he has had a drink, probably last night at his parents' house, during the night.  (He borrows their car to come here.)  In fact, I knew it earlier, when he walked in, because I could smell it, and  I could see it on him.  But he denied it, and although I know that he lies, somehow I let him get away with it (!!!!) and drive our daughter into town.  So now I am full of guilt.  I have phoned and told her what I found, and that if she is worried I will come and get her, but she says she is fine, and that they will be back soon.

I am very tempted to ring the police on him and report him for drink driving.  If he drank even a few days ago he will still have lots of alcohol in his blood, because his liver is shot.  Actually, most of him is shot.  He is a very, very sorry sight.

I asked him when he last had a drink and he said a few weeks ago, he had a glass of wine with his parents with Sunday lunch.  I said, so your parents gave you a glass of wine to drink?  He said yes.  So I said to my daugther, I want you to remember that your Dad's parents give him wine to drink, and she promised she would.

So, very confused.  Not sure whether to carry on with my own plans for the day, to visit a friend, or to stay here.  Not sure whether to ruin my daughter's birthday by kicking him out, or close my eyes to all this for the sake of a happy memory for her in the future.

Resolution:  After this weekend that B****** is not visiting ever again.

My boundaries are all in tatters, my house stinks of alcohol, and my daughter is out with a drunk.  

On a more positive note,    I bought him a present.  A will form kit, so he can write a will.  I have already told him I am going to make him fill it in, then get a neighbour to witness it while he is here.  I said he has to leave me £15 to pay for buying the thing.  We have talked in the past about how important this is, and of course he has done nothing.  So I am going to make him.  He has no sense of responsibility whatever, and his parents have none either, not for his daughter, only for him.  And whether he knows it or not, and whether his parents dare acknowlege it or not, he is killing himself with drink, and he is going to die.  Maybe not this year or next.  But soon.  

Huge emotional turmoil.  Soon be over.  Keep swimming.  

[Anonymous]

October,

Your daughter will have many more birthdays. I think your home is sacred and if the boundaries have been trashed by a pathetic alcoholic, then your daughter will learn that mom has boundaries and they will be enforced. Your ex is disrespectful to his daughter by coming to see her intoxicated! She will later APPRECIATE that you protected your home from this moron.

Your ex lies about how much he drinks. Do call the police. He could kill someone.

As for the will, do you know whether his assets would automatically go to his closest relation, i.e., his daughter? Because I can't see him writing a will.

{{{{ Take care of yourself }}}}

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi October. Did you decide what to do?

Me, I think I'd at least call her, find out where they are and go and join them. Say I changed my mind about visiting the friend and wanted to join them instead. Then make sure daughter travels with me.

At the most, yeah, let the police know he's drunk driving, but then again, I'd be there to take daughter home too. What a mess. He's a real liability. Sorry October...Portia

[Anonymous]

October:

Portia said it best.  A real liability.  I think her suggestion is pretty good.  The most  you would lose is a bad afternoon with the narc, but also supervision for your daughter in case things "got out of hand".  Just my 2c.   Also him peeing all over the house is a classic example of passive aggressive behavior.  He is clearly an out of control individual.  Much luck, Patz

[October]

Update.  Probably the worst weekend ever.  This will sound emotionally disconnected because that is how I am left.

I went to see my friend, but rang home several times, each time my daughter told me all was well.  I drove home in the early evening, and my daughter and I went to bed.  Ex stayed downstairs.

I kept all my clothes on, as I always do when he stays over.

At 1am I heard a terrible noise from downstairs; crashing kind of noise.  I didn't know if it was inside or outside.  Then very, very loud snoring noises, very strange.  Scarey.  I went downstairs and found my ex on the dining room floor, unconscious, making very loud noises, not like breathing.  There was blood on the carpet near his face, and he had wet himself.

I rang for an ambulance.  Then I rang a friend, but he was out.   I left a message.  Then I rang my next door neighbour, and he came a few minutes later, when the ambulance arrived, and took my daughter into his house, and away.  By this time she had woken and was sobbing.  It was one hour into her birthday.

Ex left in the ambulance.  I stayed to sort some clothes for him, and to try to pull myself together.  I followed about half an hour later.  It was very dark and very icy.  I went in to where he was, in casualty.  He was lying on a trolley.  I sat with him for a while.  He was not comfortable.  We were waiting for a doctor, and waited ages.  Then he had a fit.  I went to get help, and just as someone was coming with me the buzzers went off where he was, from the monitors.

A porter got me a cup of tea, while lots of people went to where Ex was and worked to bring him round.

God this is taking too long.  By this time I was in real zombie mode.  Couldn't talk.  Couldn't do anything much.  

Afterwards I was sitting there, with him, and a woman I have not seen for at least 10 years said my name.  I looked at her.  She came in and started talking, and I couldn't understand what she was doing there.  I asked if she worked there, and she said no.  Then she offered to pray for me and ex, and I wanted her to p*** off and leave us alone because it was none of her f****** business but I couldn't say anything - I just looked at her - I was in real shock - horrible shock (still am, to be honest).  Anyway she said what she wanted to make herself feel better and then left, giving me her phone number on a piece of paper which I later threw away.  (Apologies to anyone who I have offended by that, but her presumption was appalling.)  I then sat there saying kyrie eleison (Lord have mercy) to myself over and over and over, to stop from having to think.  

Cut it short.  I went home after 2 hours.  Next morning I went to visit, and found ex unable to stand, dress himself, eat (he had 8 stitches in his mouth).  They wanted me to take him home but I refused.  I said his dad would come for him.  His dad came at about 2pm, and by about 3pm he had ex on his way home.  Daughter saw him just briefly before he left and she was very upset by the sight.  I honestly thought he was dying.  His face and body and eyes were yellow from liver disease.

Ex is now banned from driving on medical orders because he could have another fit at any time.  He has been told he has 5 years to live if he doesn't stop drinking.  (I am amazed it is put that high.  I would have said much less, but I am not a doctor.)   Spoke to ex FIL tonight, and ex is apparently a lot better, now he is on a detox programme of medication from the hospital.  I am pleased about that; I didn't want him to die (Mostly because of the impact that would have on our daughter, and the connections with her birthday it would leave behind.)  His father said that next time ex comes to visit he can come by coach or train.

But ... there is no way I am letting that man in my house again.  I spent the early hours of my daughter's 12th birthday cleaning blood and urine out of my carpet so that she would not see it when she woke up.  I feel completely emotionally battered and bruised.  Daughter has slept badly since, and has had very bad stomach pains and diorrea since yesterday afternoon, and is feeling very unwell.  Her birthday was completely wrecked, and we are planning a trip to the zoo for next Saturday instead, as a replacement birthday.

I need to take a few days to think things through and then I need to get an injunction preventing any further contact for at least 2 years.  (May be less if daughter objects, but I seriously need some boundaries here.   )

[Anonymous]

{{{ October }}}

bunny

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hear about that horrible experience, October.

You reacted very well though.  I would have been tempted to stay home and not visit the hospital at all, not phone fil, not give a hoot, be with my daughter and f....... him, let the hospital deal with him and his family.  You were very generous to bother to sit with him etc.  You are a great example for your daughter.

The good thing is.....he won't be driving any more, so it should be safer for all.

Is this rock bottom for him?  Maybe the time has finally come?  Maybe the detox meds will help him at least stay dry?  That's the best to be hoped for probably?

Take care of you October.  Whatever it takes.  You will be best able to care for your daughter that way.  It's a horrible disease he has.  But even in his sick state he manages to show up for her birthday, although he did  wreck it.  Do you think he meant to do that?   Or is he just sick?

I'm asking for your daughter's sake....because I would feel angry and and disgusted and hurt and want to strangle him....but I know he's her father and she cares about him and my expressed feeling/behaviour would hurt her.

GFN

[delphine]

I think you handled this tragic event very well! Good for you!
I am concerned that you had some intuitive sense that something could go very wrong and yet you gave your XH the benefit of the doubt, and quashed your own feelings.
The worst part of my life with N was ALWAYS telling myself that my own gut reaction, my intuitive sense of things, was wrong. It's not that I believed him, and believed in him, that haunts me still- it's how much I disbelieved in me!
I allow my NXH visitation even tho he has screwed up royally in the past. I know this decision isn't right for everyone and maybe isn't right for you. I can really relate to what a tough place it is when your XH is such a screwed up parent!
When we were first separated, My X called me to say he'd been in surgery for 8 hrs after a chain saw had kicked back and hit him in the face. He'd sent my (then 3 yr old) daughter to call an ambulance. She rode with him to the hospital. All I could think about was this poor little kid wandering around a hospital for 8 HOURS!!! Who fed her, talked to her, looked after her??? I wanted to take a chain saw to other parts of him just thinking about it!  
I allowed continued visitation because I was in so much denial as to what caused him to be so careless. I think you are brave for realistically looking at what he's doing, for making informed choices, for ackowleging your own sense of propriety.
Delphine

[Anonymous]

October:

This may sound really really callous..........he probably has chirrous (spelling) of the liver.  He will die a horrible death.  Thank God you are no longer around this man.  Patz

[October]

I am concerned that you had some intuitive sense that something could go very wrong and yet you gave your XH the benefit of the doubt, and quashed your own feelings.
The worst part of my life with N was ALWAYS telling myself that my own gut reaction, my intuitive sense of things, was wrong. It's not that I believed him, and believed in him, that haunts me still- it's how much I disbelieved in me!

Delphine

I think the point you make is a very good one, Delphine.  My intuitions were right from the very start, and I should have trusted them, and acted accordingly.  I must investigate how to learn to trust myself more.  Thank you for your insight.

I am very sorry to hear what happened to your little daughter.  The pattern is the same here; the children are there to meet the parents needs, whatever they might be.  No concept of the rights of the child.

Thanks.

[October]

Is this rock bottom for him?  Maybe the time has finally come?  Maybe the detox meds will help him at least stay dry?  That's the best to be hoped for probably?

Take care of you October.  Whatever it takes.  You will be best able to care for your daughter that way.  It's a horrible disease he has.  But even in his sick state he manages to show up for her birthday, although he did  wreck it.  Do you think he meant to do that?   Or is he just sick?



GFN

Thanks GFN.  I didn't think about not going to try to help, to be honest.  It was only at the point where they said I could take him home that I said no, that is not going to happen.

You are right that it is a good move to ban my ex from driving - I have been worried about that for a while now, and it is good to have it resolved.  Also, it is something he loves to do, so perhaps he will stop and think now.  On the other hand, as my daughter said to me last night, he will not stop drinking.  He never will.  Her intuition on this is pretty good, I think.

I don't think he meant to destroy her birthday, but I think the emotional impact of visiting on that day, which is the day of all days when he knows what he has lost in losing her and me, was probably too much for him to bear.  Having said that, he still had no right to behave as he did.  I honestly and truly wanted to kill him over the weekend.  Late at night, the night it happened, when I couldn't sleep, I wanted to do that.  But then I had a couple of hours sleep, and the impulse went, fortunately for him.     I told my t yesterday, and she said in the circumstances it was a natural thing to think, as long as it went later.  Which it did.

What is starting to make me mad now is that neither he nor his dad seem to realise what impact this is likely to have had on me or my daughter.  They are still only wrapped up in ex and his needs.  Totally oblivious to us.  Oblivious to a 12 year old, seeing and hearing what she did on her birthday.  Not even an apology, or an acknowledgement.  Probably they would say something like; 'these things happen.'  And of course it is up to me to ensure that they do not happen again.

He did something similar but different last time he came for Christmas, several years ago now, and it was terrible.  Seems he can't handle the pain of high days and holidays.

However, that is his problem.  (Trying to rebuild defences here.)  My problem is to try to reestablish safety and security for my daughter.  Fortunately, she starts counselling in three weeks or so, and I am hoping that will help her a lot.

[October]

October:

This may sound really really callous..........he probably has chirrous (spelling) of the liver.  He will die a horrible death.  Thank God you are no longer around this man.  Patz

You are right.  It sounds callous, but it is true, and we have to be able to face what is true, rather than swallowing the lies.

He has cirrhosis of the liver in 1993, the year our daughter was born, when a liver biopsy was done.  He carried on drinking despite my best efforts to help until 1997 when I made him leave.  That same year is when I first became ill with ptsd, after he left.  And here we are, 12 years later, and he is still drinking.

Doesn't take a fortune teller, does it?

[October]

{{{ October }}}

bunny

Thanks Bunny.  Not crying yet, but one of these days I really need to find a safe place where I can.  <inside >

[Anonymous]

Hello October:  

...as my daughter said to me last night, he will not stop drinking. He never will.

This is a very sad realization for her.  She is so young to be facing such a demon disease in her family.  Her intuition is telling her that her father is hopelessly addicted and will never stop drinking.  Deep down inside, I wonder if she thinks:  "He won't stop.  Not even for his own child".   Does she understand that he is a sick, sick man?

...he knows what he has lost in losing her and me

The underlying emotion, supposedly, that alcoholics battle is guilt.

Have you ever been to Alanon?  It is an organization, similar to AA, for the friends, family, and loved ones of alcoholics.  There is also one called:  Alateen (for teens...not sure what age it starts--but I think 12??).

These are a very helpful organizations.  Alcoholism is such a hard thing to explain to kids and to even understand ourselves.  All of the emotions involved in dealing with the addicted person become mingled and confusing, especially for children.  The support of these groups is enormous.  I wonder if you and/or your daughter might consider going?  It helps.

I honestly and truly wanted to kill him over the weekend. Late at night, the night it happened, when I couldn't sleep, I wanted to do that. But then I had a couple of hours sleep, and the impulse went,...

I can relate.  You're not the only person who has ever had nasty thoughts.  I'm glad those passed, after a bit of sleep.  The anger and frustration is totally understandable and needs to come out.   I'm glad you have a T to speak with.

What is starting to make me mad now is that neither he nor his dad seem to realise what impact this is likely to have had on me or my daughter. They are still only wrapped up in ex and his needs. Totally oblivious to us. Oblivious to a 12 year old, seeing and hearing what she did on her birthday. Not even an apology, or an acknowledgement. Probably they would say something like; 'these things happen.' And of course it is up to me to ensure that they do not happen again.

The biggest, most common barrier to recovery from alcoholism......denial.  There is no problem.    Cirrohsis isn't enough to snap the light on.  Fil doesn't speak about it.  Your exh tries to hide evidence of drinking and lie about his consumption.  Deny the reality of addiction and there is no stopping it.  There will be no apology because there is no problem to acknowledge.  There is no impact on you or your daughter because there is nothing to cause an impact, no problem.   It's not nice or easy for you or your daughter.  They are oblivious.

However, that is his problem.

It is definately his problem but it is effecting you and your daughter, right?

You are doing the right thing by setting new limits/boundaries (he won't be visiting your home again...I think you said?).  For safety and security...I think you are right.  How about some supervised visiting.....possibly.....at some time in the future?  Would that be something to consider?

I hope the cousellor will help your daughter.  You are a great mom for making sure she has some one objective to speak with.

Take care of you too, October.  You have a lot on your plate.
 
GFN

[October]

Many years ago I tried and tried to get supervised access, and nobody would help us.  The local alcohol centre said that children were not allowed in the building - although both my daughter and I had been there many times before.  Social services refused supervised access because she was not on the at risk register, and when I asked for her to be put on the register they said they couldn't do that because her dad did not live with us any longer.  

My family refuse to have anything whatever to do with my ex, and so I am left as the only buffer for my daughter, the only check against his being fit or unfit to see her, in a world full of denial of my pain.  This has left me feeling very alone and unsupported.  Nobody wants to know. Nobody wants to help.

I saw my t yesterday and told her all of this.  She was sympathetic, but she also said that it is time for me to stop seeing her, and that we are going to spend a few sessions closing down.

At this point I run out of words.   < inside>

Daughter remains very unwell.  I need to take her to a doctor tomorrow.