define 'fine' therapy/ psychiatry

[Anonymous]

Hello again Bunny:

I understand that your disappointment predates ever meeting your therapist, that you are projecting onto the therapist, that that is what transference is and I still say.....you are doing very well to keep going regardless of your disappointment, and of all the transference.

I don't know if I could do that...being disappointed, "thinking" the therapist is not empathetic, preceptive, wise, etc... (but maybe I'm incorrect to think you might be thinking those things but if so....then how can you be disappointed, if not???).  I'm too demanding.  In my transference, I would be demanding professional stuff.....and thus cooking my own goose!   I probably wouldn't go back......thinking the therapist was at fault...or maybe I wouldn't go to begin with, being disappointed before I even went.  So good for you for being able to go.....to understand all of this....to be able to explain it.....etc.!!!

This is one of the oddest posts..isn't it?  Ok.....then.....

I also understand......that in my state of hunger and my desire to get going and prepare dinner.....that I mixed in my own personal transference.....which stems from the poor experiences I had....due to actual behaviour of the therapists.........

Therefore....yes.....it seems like I misunderstood......but really...it was just my brain needing glucose and whatever else it needs to work properly (or else....I can use that as an excuse for now, until I think of a better one!!! heehee) and due to my inability to express my thoughts properly, especially, but not limited to, times when I am hungry.

And thanks....dinner was good.  Hope yours was too.

GFN

[write]

I have to keep in touch with the therapist- which means she has to read my emails, be responsive when I'm in urgent need of support, and be quick to catch up if we've not communicated for a while and there's a crisis.

I'm learning to maintain this as any other relationship, and I go back and talk once in a while just so she's effectively in touch with my life for when I need more input.

Interesting-when I first saw her I didn't feel she was empathetic, and I doubted she could help, but she had so many professional credentials and a couple of psychiatrists said I should stick with her. She told me later it was me withdrawing when things got tough- and believe me the first sessions were hard for me. I thought the sky would fall in if I admitted to all the craziness of my life and feelings.

Another point- I also doubted the relationship and being able to trust her, and often commented on she only listened for money, and doesn't really care about clients.
Of course, a few crises later I know she's there for me- as a therapist, but reliable and concerned and willing to help me get what I need.

Last point- in me there was initially a rejection in this: that it wasn't a real relationship, or my fantasy relationship, that it wasn't a friendship or any other relationship I've done before.

But eventually that's become a strength- and I have less preconceptions and expectations than relationships ever, and more willingness to define and trust them for myself.

[October]

Should've been three times a week!

Three times a week for nine years?

That is more than lucky.  That is an absolute miracle.  

[guest1]

Hi,
I am new to the board and have a question about my current therapist. I have been seeing her for probably ten years and thought and felt that we made great strides in that time.  She would not just sit and nod and did guide me towards action plans.

Things fell apart a little when I broke up with what I now believe was a narcisstic bf.  During the relationship she told me I was too hung up on things being equal.  After we broke up she indicated she thought I had carried too much of the load in the relationship.  I am simplifying the situaiton but believe this is an accurate assessment.  I felt she  encouraged me to give up on what I considered a striving for balance in the relationshp and than chatisezed me for this later.  I attemtped to talk to her about it but it never went anywhere in my mind.

In addition I feel she is at times condescending with me.  I have brought this up when it happens but she gets defensive and denies it.   Most of our sessions have been productive but I am not sure what to do about this underlying problem.  

I have tried other therapists in the past and truly believe she is one of the better ones for me.  Friends have suggested I talk to her about it which I will probably try next time.  It has been some time since the ending of my last relationshp so I dont feel I am transfering that negativity to her.  Any thoughts, questions, comments?

[Anonymous]

I don't know if I could do that...being disappointed, "thinking" the therapist is not empathetic, preceptive, wise, etc... (but maybe I'm incorrect to think you might be thinking those things but if so....then how can you be disappointed, if not???).

Thanks for your clarification. I was getting a bit frustrated there. Felt misunderstood. On one level, there is this negative transference. On a more sophisticated level, I know that it's mostly projections so I don't take it as the gospel truth about this therapist. I have left therapists when I felt they were the problem. I don't always call my own disappointment a projection. It might be actual disappointment.

My dinner was too good, I ate too much!

bunny

[Anonymous]

Things fell apart a little when I broke up with what I now believe was a narcisstic bf.  During the relationship she told me I was too hung up on things being equal.  After we broke up she indicated she thought I had carried too much of the load in the relationship.  I am simplifying the situaiton but believe this is an accurate assessment.  I felt she  encouraged me to give up on what I considered a striving for balance in the relationshp and than chatisezed me for this later.  I attemtped to talk to her about it but it never went anywhere in my mind.

This was rather contradictory, wasn't it?

In addition I feel she is at times condescending with me.  I have brought this up when it happens but she gets defensive and denies it.   Most of our sessions have been productive but I am not sure what to do about this underlying problem.

The dreaded defensiveness of a therapist. God I hate it when they do that. It seems so difficult for many therapists to admit they're wrong or came across badly. There are two choices as I see it: (1) Tell her that you feel she's condescending and you WISH she would accept your feeling and not argue with you about it, and see where that goes; (2) Dump her ass. If she won't accept and contain your negative feelings about her, then therapy is over. Oh, it may continue for years past this, but no therapy will happen. Sorry...

It doesn't matter how much time has passed since the relationship. But this isn't about a transference. It's about her condescension, contradictions, and inability to accept your criticism of her. She needs to be able to do these things to be a therapist. If she can't, then she is only a good therapist until the impasse occurs. Then it's over.

bunny

[bunny]

I just want to add, I am not advocating leaving the therapist unless it becomes impossible and she absolutely will not accept any criticism.

I totally advocate talking to her about how frustrated and upset you are. A patient should be able to say very negative things to the therapist, to criticize them, to tell them off, etc., without the therapist acting like a parent and being defensive. The therapist should reflect on what we say, and ask themselves whether there's any truth to it. Not get defensive or argumentative. Once a therapist does that, they break the trust bond and it sucks. I hope she will understand that she is putting the relationship at risk.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Great thread Write, very interesting and illuminating. Makes me value my psych support more, given what some here have said about their truly awful experiences. I understand what you mean about thinking the sky might fall in, but it doesn’t and that’s great isn’t it? I’m glad you have a therapist who is reliable, concerned and willing. That reliability - and consistency with clients - is so important for people who find it difficult to trust. Like me, and like you, if I read you correctly. Anyway, thanks for this thread, from the previously critical guest from the other thread.

[Anonymous]

Good morning Bunny:

On one level, there is this negative transference.

This was why I was asking, to begin with.  Because I thought I knew what transference was, so ....negative transference??  Got me wondering.

one definition of transference, from allpsych.com dictionary:

Transference    

Intense feelings directed toward the therapist that many clients experience in the process of therapy.

But I like  the yourdictionary.com definition of transference:

2.  In psychoanalysis, the process by which emotions and desires originally associated with one person, such as a parent or sibling, are unconsciously shifted to another person, especially to the analyst.

Which was more in line with what you were describing.  I took the "negative" infront of transference to possibly mean that...you...were absorbing the therapist's emotions/desires, possibly the person was discussing their parent or sibling experiences with you....in which case......I was all geared up to say:

"Bunny.........this person is not acting professionally, if they are giving you enough information about their emotions and experiences for you to absorb.  Their emotions and experiences are not part of your therapy and this is highly improper of the therapist to be inserting into your sessions".

Just shows how one little word can get me all confused.   Glad that's not what's happening with your therapist and you!!
 
Glad your dinner was good too!!

GFN

[guest1]

Bunny,
Thank you for your advice.  In the last therapy session I did tell her I felt she was being condescending.  She denied it, I believe, and threw it back at me.  I have the tape so I will listen.  I will bring this up next time.  

I did feel the trust broken when she went from, "you are too hung up on things being equal" to "you carried too much of the load in this relationship." I think she was actually even more humiliating like saying something like "I was pursuing him all over the region", which was totally inaccurate and very shaming, in my book.  

Due to his circumstances, I had to do most of the driving to see him. Something I was not comfortable with, but remember the therapist specifcally saying, if I drew a line here it would not accomplish one of my goals, of furthering the relationship. To throw this at me later, I felt was very inappropriate and told her so.

Of course in some ways that is water over the dam, but the issues still need to be addressed.

[Anonymous]

GFN,

Thanks for your reply. You got the right definition of transference. My therapist tells me almost nothing about himself. And that's how I like it.

bunny

[Anonymous]

In the last therapy session I did tell her I felt she was being condescending.  She denied it, I believe, and threw it back at me.  I have the tape so I will listen.  I will bring this up next time.

Good. It's not easy, I know. But for her to throw it back at you is pretty cringe-worthy. She needs to be called on it.

I did feel the trust broken when she went from, "you are too hung up on things being equal" to "you carried too much of the load in this relationship." I think she was actually even more humiliating like saying something like "I was pursuing him all over the region", which was totally inaccurate and very shaming, in my book.

Wow. For her to say, 'You are too hung up on XYZ' (if those were her words) is terrible. It's flat-out criticism; you might as well be talking to your parents or ex-boyfriend. Then to say you were pursuing him all over the region adds insult to injury. I'm kind of shocked here. Sometimes a therapist acts out in a "countertransference" (i.e. their own transference toward a patient, or, reacting from their own unprocessed personal experience). If that's happening, she's got to get a grip on it.

 

Due to his circumstances, I had to do most of the driving to see him. Something I was not comfortable with, but remember the therapist specifcally saying, if I drew a line here it would not accomplish one of my goals, of furthering the relationship. To throw this at me later, I felt was very inappropriate and told her so.

I think throwing anything at you later is retaliation, and pretty bad. Nothing should be thrown at someone later. That's not a healthy interaction. I'm sorry she's doing this.    

good luck with this,

bunny

[Guest1]

Bunny,
Thanks again for your help.  I will bring this up in the next session and see what happens. It feels good to have my perception of it validated.

[longtire]

I think there is a positive, helpful way for the therapist to share feelings with you.  That is when they reflect back the feelings they "get" empathically with you.  For example, if I'm describing my childhood, my therapist may say something like "that sounds lonely" to help me connect with my own feelings about it.

I agree that this is totally different than transference.  Done right, empathy reflects the patient's own stuff back to help them connect with their own stuff.  If he started telling me something about his life or judgement, that would be over the line and very damaging to a good therapeutic(sp?) relationship.

Of course, there are other times when he pushes me and is challenging when he thinks I need that.  But even then, he usually asks questions like "first you said X then you said Y, which do you really believe?"  It is usually annoying and frustrating, but as long as he isn't TELLING me about myself, it is ultimately helpful.

[October]

Sorry.  Too visible.