How has it effected your femininity

[Anonymous]

On the other hand.....a lot of the time... I just think we're all people and entitled to have whatever likes or dislikes we want and that wanting or enjoying certain gender-identified-specific activities....neither makes us one thing or another. It is simply an example of our beauty and uniqueness as individual human beings and an expression of our real selves.

C'est la vie.
Or maybe joie de vivre, is better.  

mud

[Anonymous]

Then there's the "shadow" (negative) side of the yin/yang. That's when the male energy is about aggression, hostility, violence. When the female energy is about manipulation, subtle cruelty, and sabotaging.

The female energy is more about qualities of feeling, creation, receptivity. The male energy is more about qualities of action, directness, accomplishment. The person can use this energy positively or negatively. Hopefully we choose the positive.

 If you are a woman who has more animus, that is okay. You just need a man who appreciates it.

bunny

[Bliz]

I think I get it.  Thanks Bunny.  

I guess it is listening to all those labels.  Women should be this way and men that way.  The constant comparison with my mother when I was younger didnt help. We are so different physically and our likes and dislike as far as girly things.  I absolutely hate to shop for example.  She was much more the classic beauty and lover of all the trappings I can't get my mind and heart around.

I said to her recently in a loving way, that I just am not the daughter she thought she would have as far as common interests.  On the other hand she is very physically active and good at sports. We share that.

I do NOW understand that it is okay to be different and like things that aren't typically feminine and vice versa. I guess shutting off the criticism is the answer.

I very much enjoy the power that seems to be on this board to dig deeply into these issues and come on with different creative answers.

[Anonymous]

Hi all,
I don't know if this is of interest to anyone, but I just counted fifty nine rabbits, bunnies and hares in our living room, dining room and kitchen alone! And I gave her more of them than I thought I had.
Then it dawned on me. I have a painting of two chickadees cuddling on a branch above a snowshoe hare that I was planning on painting for my wife as well.
Obviously it is my fault not hers if I feel like I'm being watched by wascally wabbits at all times. Come to think of it Bugs Bunny is my favorite cartoon character. I have been projecting all this time. I'm the one with the bunny problem.  

Bliz wrote,

When younger I alwasy dreamed of having the "great adventure" and doing exciting things, traveling all over the place by myself etc. I always loved, "exploring" outside in the woods, creeks, river banks, etc. I love a good hunt for things like artifacts. I still do all of these things and still love it.

Are those masculine things?

waiting for things to happen to you, having a ton of patience with things.

Are those feminine things?
Bliz, I confess crunching a beer can on your forehead or a good long belch I don't consider too appealing in a woman (or a man for that matter, although I'm pretty good at the latter), but exploring, adventures and hunting for artifacts seem like they are perfectly feminine to me. They seem gender neutral.
Likewise I know plenty of men who sit around waiting for things to happen to them and plenty of women who have about as much patience as a rattlesnake that forgot to pack his lunch. So maybe femininity is in the eye of the beholder?
This thread has made me think about a lot of stuff I had never given much thought to. I stick with what I said before, femininity and masculinity are basically mysteries to me. If you like who you are then tough maracas for what somebody else thinks is feminine or masculine.

mudpuppy

[longtire]

Well, I've been reading this thread and thinking about it for a while, and I don't think the this abuse has really affected my femininity.  

If there's a silver lining to my experiences with an emotionally neglectful mother and a verbally and emoptionally abusive wife, its that I don't buy that "women are more nurturing than men" crap.  Women are people and men are people.  Most are good, some are not, and some are really NOT!  People can be nurturing, stong, protective, loving, supportive, etc. regardless of their gender.

I do understand the question at the start of this thread.  But, I would rephrase it as "Have I lost anything that's important to me that I can't get back?"

I'm actually in a good mood today, but its hard to see in this grouchy EMail.  

[Bliz]

I agree with you the exploring, the great adventure, etc.,  are not inately male or female charactertistics.  I think it is all the negative feedback I have received and that I am considered "different" from most of my family for a variety of reasons. The same with most of my friends. I am not living in the most evolved part of the country so maybe that has something to do with it.
 
I am starting to get questions from the nieces on why I am not married,  why I live alone in a big, (not that big) house.  The five year old is really having a hard time with it and for awhile thought I was her other Mommy.  That is kind of cute.

I remember when I traveled out west when I was younger, by myself.  People didnt get it.  Part of me likes the uniqueness and part of me just wants to blend in sometimes.  I know also that the vanilla mundane life is not for me anyway, so why am I complaining?  Just questioning and enjoying getting other peoples feedback.

Maybe it is just the Nar family ability to latch on to anything different and make it bad.

[Anonymous]

I am starting to get questions from the nieces on why I am not married,  why I live alone in a big, (not that big) house.  The five year old is really having a hard time with it and for awhile thought I was her other Mommy.  That is kind of cute.

Children don't understand adults being childless. That is their way and doesn't mean you are wierd. My niece used to ask me why I had breasts since there was no baby. My answer was, "What if a baby suddenly came? I'd need them." This satisfied her. And she asked whether my husband and I were married, or whether he was just a friend of mine. I said we were married. She didn't see the point of our marriage but that was okay. She also calls me mommy by accident. I think it's because her actual mother is a b---- and I'm nicer.  

If people think you're different, that's their prerogative. Maybe they're envious.

bunny

[mudpup]

Bliz,

Maybe it is just the Nar family ability to latch on to anything different and make it bad.

Now I think we're getting somewhere. All societies of course try to pound down the people who poke their heads up. That's universal human nature. But Ns, at least the ones I've observed, go hog wild with it. And why not. Its the perfect way to isolate or ostracise someone to compel them to conform, not to society, but to the Ns weird little world.
I'm the only Christian in my immediate family. My brother constantly uses that as a method to isolate me, or to make some false accusation then point at me and yell hypocrite.
For you its not meeting some family 'norm' of femininity. If you looked and acted like Little Bo Peep, they'd ride you for some other 'flaw'. Probably for being too feminine.  
Too bad you can't tell your nieces, 'I'm not married because I can't stand the thought of getting hitched to a psychopathic idiot like your father!'  

mud

[Bliz]

Mudpup,
You are so right AND you are cracking me up....

"now we are getting someplace."  

I am hoping so.  My ramblings are starting to sound Narlike to me.  Yikes there everywhere, including me.

It's not just fitting their weird world as far as femininty, although I think that is a big part of it.  you are right, they find something else if that particular item is put to rest in their tiny minds.  

The older nieces do also seem puzzled by me being alone.  I do date and have dated so I am not the old maid in the house full of cats yet.  Don't like cats anyway.  BUt sometimes I feel like I am being punished  because the reconnect with the Nar boyfriend didnt work out.

They didnt even like him that much,  but maybe on some level it finally put me in that category of "Bliz with man".  A category they could latch on to and fit into their world.  I am talking about the kids now.  I do want them to see that you dont have to have a man to be happy and successful.

Okay, sort of different topic on this subject.  I just realized that of the generation of women before me, my Mom, her sister and my Dad's two sisters, everyone but my Mom was either dead or committed by the age of 53.  That just blew me away.

An aunt on each side died of breast cancer and the other sister of Dad, probably an alcoholic, fell down the steps and was in a nursing home from 52-62 when she died.  WOW.  I cant imagine that.  I am in my early 50's and many ways feel like I am just hitting my pace.  Can't imagine folding it up that early.  

Also feel tonight that being a woman is this family must be like being an endangered species.  At least on Dad's side, wonder how much it had to do with the poor treatment of the women and of course the raising of the men to godlike status?  I know it bothered both his sisters.  One broke free and made it only to die young.  THe other one fell down the steps.

[mudpup]

Bliz,

My ramblings are starting to sound Narlike to me. Yikes there everywhere, including me.

Rubbish. They're not ramblings, they're not Narlike and they're not everywhere. They're just you telling us your story. Good for you, and thanks.

As far as the generation before you, don't get drunk, especially upstairs, do get your mammograms and breast exams and see if you can severly limit your exposure to the N lunacy in your family. That should take care of all your risk factors and lead to a happy, healthy, long life. There I just solved all your problems.
Too bad its never that easy, huh?

mud

[Bliz]

Thanks for assuring me on the ramblings.

I have always thought it was so sad that the two aunts died young.  I didnt fear that I would die young, but thought it was tragic for them and their families.  I never put it all together with the aunt that went to the nursing home at 52 until yesterday. I also think the loss to the family of the female role models was tragic.

I have heard stories of how my father's Dad treated the sisters and it so much could have been my life.  THe oldest daughter did try to branch out and get away to college, which wasnt real common for women in those days.  Her father yanked her out when he found out she was drinking and smoking cigarettes.  Hey, it is college.  Then he wouldnt let the younger one go becuase of the behavior of the older one.  Now that makes no sense at all.  How damning to the younger sister for something beyond her control.  

Her life ws the most tragic.  She kind of gave up on life when her high school boyfriend came back from the service and didnt marry her.  I figure there was probably more to this story.  Like they had premarital sex and then she felt damaged.  That would be so our family. It was the 1940's now.  I dont remember her dating at all when I was a kid or later.  

She was tall, fashionable and very attractive. She lived at home with her mother unitl she fell down the steps.  WHen I found out at 19 that I was an alcoholic, I did dread/fear I would turn into her.  I put that to rest in my mind a few years ago.  

The older one was much more free spirited. She married a psychiatrist, which we all found fascinating as children.  She had the good life, a child, etc.  It was quite a shock when she found a lump and died six months later.

Both of these sisters had a lot of spirit at one time, did well in school, very sociable, fun.  I think what I am concetrating on now is how their spirit got squashed by the family.  At least in the younger sister, I believe that is what happened.  It may have been a fluck with the older one.  I wish they were here today as they would have made excellent grande dames.  I thought my Mom was so psycho growing up, if I had to indentify with a family woman it would have been them.