The Art of Not Being Offended by Dr. Jodi Prinzivalli

[mum]

Phil: Have you read the Power of Now by Ekhart Tolle?  He asserts and I cannot find a way to argue anything differently....that NOW is all there is.  Everything else is past...future and thus NOT real. Spending our "time"
(a human invention and collective agreement) on past or future thoughts seperates us from the JOY to be found simply in the NOW.. the RIGHT NOW.
I frequently ask myself this question: what is the problem RIGHT NOW?  not 5 minutes from now, not 2 minutes ago, not  months from now, but RIGHT NOW?  I usually find that I don't really have a problem.  It doesn't keep me from being practical and acting and planning in a way to function well as a human, but it leads me to joy all the time.  Nothing is real but NOW.

I will add that even reality is so subjective that it is perhaps such a different experience for most that it's not worth talking about in a global sense.  And yet, we spend our lives finding connections among our souls and to our past, to our future....that I think Don Miguel whoever (bad with names) is correct; this is a collective dream we are in.  

We agree (hey we agree red lights mean stop!) to a "reality" to keep us together and not alone, or to acknowledge our basic ONENESS!  Wayne Dyer expresses (far better than I can) that it is our seperation from  "GOD" or god/self...whatever, that causes our suffering. Our seperation from the core of love/god that we all have that causes our pain.  We are all one, is hard placet o acknowlege, as anyone who has been attacked/damaged will attest to.  But it is that seperation that caused the pain in the first place (your abuser not seeing this if you will).

 You can find similar statements of this oneness and seperation in almost any religion....thus the "hey I found something that brought me happiness" enthusiasm that most (possibly later twisted up) religions start with.
When we use anything (religion, hair color, geography) to deliniate and seperate.....that's when we suffer.

Just some thoughts on a Thursday morning........

[Anonymous]

Hi Portia,
What a sweet, smart lady you are.

I can’t see how any God would be bothered enough with us to be concerned about our acknowledgement. Why would he ask anything of us? I don’t understand how we can be that important. If we are important, we’re not doing very well at taking care of ourselves and our home, we need educating!  

If God is the creator of us then why wouldn't he be concerned with us? Don't you consider your close friends important enough to care about? If you, a lowly human, could care then why couldn't God? Jesus expressly said if we dopey fathers try to give our children good things how much more could we expect the God of love to do for us.
Just because we are important to God doesn't mean we are competent.
My daughter is important to me, but I wouldn't trust her to take care of herself. She needs educating too. The father/daughter thing brings me to your next point.

One of the reasons I question any idea of an external higher power that is interested in us, is that, well, it seems too much like a parent/child relationship and in some ways, too close to human narcissism than I like. Do you see what I mean? I get uncomfortable with the ‘relationships’ involved.

How much of your discomfort comes from your experiences with people? Isn't it possible that the betrayal you have experienced colors your conception of God? Are you afraid that if God does exist and you put your trust in him that he would also betray you?
I believe there is a perfect God and I believe he especially wants a relationship with people who have been betrayed by their parents. I have seen the most miraculous healings of victims of the most terrible abuse. One of my dearest friends suffered a childhood of horrifying betrayal and abuse by parents, aunts, uncles, and siblings. I am getting choked up just writing about it. She also suffered through a marriage to a horrible abusive N of the worst kind. After all that, she is the sweetest, most open, well adjusted, loving lady you could ever meet. And she credits her relationship to her perfect Father for rescuing her. She is the only Christian in her family and the only one who escaped the evil that pervades it. Prior to her conversion she was suicidal and addicted. Now she is a blessing to everyone who knows her. And I know many stories like hers, many.
I also know people who aren't Christian who have escaped similar fates. Many of them are very good people as well. It is not so much a question of exterior behavior that I see. What I see in people like my friend is an interior healing and contentment and joy that is somehow missing in the others. And the more a person has yielded themselves to God, like my friend, the more complete is her healing.
I can only tell you what I have seen and experienced in others and myself. If I did not have my faith in a transcendent God I do not know how I would have handled this hell my brother has put us through.
Well actually I do know. For well over a year I allowed his slanders and damage to seperate me from God. I was angry with God for allowing this to happen and I leaned on my own strength to fight my brother. I was depressed, I didn't care whether I lived or died. Several times I thought of what cliff I could drive over to make sure my wife got my life insurance money and I got out of this rotten world. My brother might very well have already driven me to that if I hadn't realized who my Father is. He showed me what to do. He led me to fight for my family and my rights. He redeemed me. I didn't do it. A therapist didn't do it. My wife didn't even do it. I read the bible and I prayed and over the course of a few months I was redeemed from a defeated helpless victim into a  righteousely angry lion who is determined to take a large bite out of my tormenter's ass. Whatever the outcome, my trust in Him has brought my joy back and my contentment.
Sorry if I got too personal but there was no stopping it. That paragraph about the winter of my discontent was hard to write. I haven't told too many people how bad it got. Lots of tears, still, when I think back on it.
Anyway that's why I believe there is a God.
Redemption, as vunil said, on a different thread I think; its a beautiful thing.
Excuse me I have to go blow my nose.

mudpuppy

[phil]

Sometimes, in my more lucid moments, I surmise this is the case, we are simply spiritual beings merely here, because this is what we have chosen to do.  Parts of the all, like drops of the ocean, just playing in eternity.  How may one argue with the fact that what ever this is, we are in the middle of it.  Since the past goes forever and the future stretches into eternity, only the now has any possible significance.

[Anonymous]

Hi vunil,

Oh, just realized something-- the reason why I don't believe in the creation story literally, or even combined with evolution, is because I think it's way less interesting and compelling than just regular old big-bang/evolution, which knocks my socks off utterly. Just seems to be more wondrous wondrousness in the latter, to me.

How do you know they are not different descriptions of the same events?
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..... sounds kind of like the big bang to me.
When the Hebrew is properly translated and understood the first chapter of Genesis and the scientific record are essentially inseperable.

mudpup

[vunil]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Oh, I love that creation story.  Very beautiful. It's the adam and eve one I am less enamored of.  But as a metaphor I think it's cool. I read once that in the original text the apple was a fig.  For some reason I think that's groovy-- there is something so earthy about a fig.

In general I like most of the bible stories if I get to take them figuratively.  I know not everyone agrees!

[Anonymous]

It's the adam and eve one I am less enamored of.

That reasons.org site I referred to previously has some very interesting stuff concerning mitochondrial DNA and the origin of man relating to Genesis. Adam and Eve might not be quite the story that has been interpreted (or maybe misinterpereted) through the years.

mud

[Anonymous]

Hello Everyone:

Hiya Portia:

Re: faith

I don’t know why some people have it and others don’t. Don’t think I expressed that very well before.

No worries.  I don't know the answer to that either.   I believe some people choose faith and some people are born with it, just as some people choose to play the guitar and learn the skill, while others just begin playing it, by ear.  Why?  These are things I doubt we will ever know in this life.

I don’t have any principles which are absolute.

How about this one:  It is never ok to abuse a child.

I bet there are others, if you really think about it.  Anyhow, faith is not always be absolute.  Some people lose faith....choose not to have it.

What about faith in myself?....  Anything could happen.

True.  But generally speaking, your faith in yourself sounds quite strong.

I haven’t read all of the Bible, or the Talmud, or the Koran etc. They don’t interest me enough now, and I’ve given up reading books because I think I ‘should’ read them. Maybe I will read them one day. On that desert island.

Maybe.  I have often thought that if I were doomed to a desert island and could only take one book with me, it would be the Bible.  I  find it interesting, stimulating, thought provoking and complex.  I believe I could occupy much of my life with it (between hunting for grasshoppers and coconuts and playing the bamboo drum I'd construct. ).

I trust myself more now.

Hey.....this is a biggie.  Some people don't trust themselves much at all, so you've got this racked up in your favour.

But you mean trust others? And if so with what? My life? My Self (which is more important to me than my life)?

Yes.  There are so many degrees of trust, aren't there?  There must be a level of trust you have with someone?  Maybe your partner?  You must have some level of trust with him, or you probably wouldn't be with him.
Therefore, you know a certain level of trusting someone and what that feels like.  That's what I was meaning.

Honestly, no I don’t trust anyone with my Self. Because there is no-one that knows me like I know me. To trust someone else with my Self, my mind, would be illogical, lazy and irresponsible to me. Unless I was ‘mad’ and then I might have no choice (or would I?). Tricky subject, insanity.
Do you really trust anyone to that extent GFN, with your mind? Is this what faith is, feeling that God is responsible for what’s in your head? (trying to think how to phrase that better, but I can’t think how to, it’s a serious question though).

I think these are two different things.  I think trusting someone here in this world, another human, is a big risk.  I can trust people though, even though my trust in others has been broken very seriously, more than once.  Still, I am willing to take the risk again and again and trust others, because there are many people I have trusted who have not broken that trust and I believe I learn from my errors and so... choose to trust more carefully after that.  I don't think my trust in people is near what it is in God though.

Trusting God just does not seem like at all the same thing.  The risk in trusting God is zilch.  Because I believe He is perfect, He is incapable of breaking my trust.  It is I who am much more likely to break His.

But my mind?  For me, this is something no human can possibly ruin.  Not as long as I put my mind in a place that trusts in God.  This might be what people mean when they say:  "I could never have survived without my faith in God".  Because no matter what happens, what calamity, what horror, no one can destroy that faith, or the benefits it provides.  It can only be given up by choice.  No one can steal it, or wreck it, or contain it.  It is one powerful asset without a price on it.  It is not measurable.  For me.   And I don't think I'm special but not everyone feels their faith is as solid as that, so I guess, it could be said that my faith is very intense.

There are those who try to destroy people's faith or who abuse it, such as some cult leaders or false ministries out for power and fortune.  Since I trust people less than God, I doubt I will ever fall into such a trap.  I really do see religion and God as two different things.  One is man made and the other....made man.

Thanks for wanting to comfort me GFN. If God thinks I’m wrong or bad, I don’t know that, so it literally doesn’t enter my thoughts, no problem. But I really don’t imagine he’d be interested one way or another.

If you had two children and one knew you and the other didn't (was stolen from you say) would you only be interested in just the one close to you, or would you always long for the other one too?
God is just as interested in those who do not know about Him, or believe in Him, or trust Him, or have faith in Him, as those who do, maybe more so. (??)

I wonder if God sees a difference between bad and good, right and wrong?

God knows everything and we know very little.

[Anonymous]

Woops.  That was me,

GFN

[Anonymous]

Dear GFN,
I wish I could write like you.
I won't write a big long post praising every line you wrote, I'll just say that everything you wrote to Portia was perfect and true and struck a chord with me.
Like I told Patz and Stormy on another thread I'm proud to call you sister.

I really do see religion and God as two different things. One is man made and the other....made man.

Amen.

God bless.

mudpup

[phillip]

I was trying to remember these words all day at work, so when I got home, I looked them up.  They are by Enigma.

We came out from the deep
To learn to love, to learn how to live
We came out from the deep
To avoid the mistakes we made.
That's why we are here!
We came out from the deep
To help and understand, but not to kill
It takes many lives till we succeed
To clear the debts of many hundred years.
That's why we are here!

[Anonymous]

Hello again:

Mudpuppy:

I don't know what to say to such praise?  Except to thank you for saying such nice things.   So thankyou very truly.  It really is too much.

I doubt anything I write is perfect but it does come straight from my heart and my soul, so maybe that helps make it a little more striking?

I am very glad and I feel blessed to have the priviledge of your brotherhood.  

I'm away for Easter now and I hope you and everyone here will have a happy, peaceful and healthy holiday. (and I hope the Easter Bunny brings lot's of chocolate too!)

GFN

[chutzbagirl]

I know GFN is away for Easter now but perhaps she will see this post when she returns.  (I am assuming GFN is a girl.    I can be a bear of little brain -  just realized today Longtire is a guy. )

Perhaps the most frustrating/painful aspects of my damage from being raised by N's is that I struggle to feel/know the love of the God I believe in and serve.  I have always believed in God - remember having debates with Him when I was 3 or 4.  But feeling the security of His love has been a fleeting experience for me.

I grew up feeling despised by my N Mother and terribly ashamed.  I tried to perform to make her love me, but everything I did made her despise me more.  That's hard to understand as a kid.  Her disdain frightened me - I used to sleep with my door locked.  

I'm sure all this distortion blocks my ability to experience God.  Perhaps I'm still performing for His love.  Something I know I don't have to do - but the 18 inches from the head to the heart is a very, very long journey.

So, although my ego would love to be viewed as a wise "old timer" in the land of recovery, I'm still wrestling with the basics.  That's just too bad...Thanks for that beautiful poem Stormchild.  I guess that's the best we can be, 'a friend to man'.  I'm grateful for a place to write my thoughts besides my journal.

Chutzbagirl

[Anonymous]

Hello All:

Thanks so much for the compliment Mudpuppy.  I hope eveyone here has a good holiday and a blessed Easter.   My son and I will probably go to Sunrise Services if it doesn't rain.  See you guys next week.  Much love Patz

[Portia]

Mud, thank you for your post on the previous page. I read it last night and went to sleep thinking about it. I think I understand a little better now, thanks to you and GFN for being so open. I'm glad you're still here and that your faith rescued you Mud. I was touched by your words and by your sorrow and hurt. We find comfort where we find it and wherever that is, that's good to me. I wouldn't want to threaten anyone's faith, if that was possible (doubtful I think). I like to understand the 'why' for things and this thread has helped me understand, so thank you. best, P

[longtire]

Hi CG.

I know GFN is away for Easter now but perhaps she will see this post when she returns.  (I am assuming GFN is a girl.    I can be a bear of little brain -  just realized today Longtire is a guy. )

Perhaps the most frustrating/painful aspects of my damage from being raised by N's is that I struggle to feel/know the love of the God I believe in and serve.  I have always believed in God - remember having debates with Him when I was 3 or 4.  But feeling the security of His love has been a fleeting experience for me.

I always had a sense that spiritual "things" existed and mattered too.  I don't know where I got it, certainly not from my parents!

I grew up feeling despised by my N Mother and terribly ashamed.  I tried to perform to make her love me, but everything I did made her despise me more.  That's hard to understand as a kid.  Her disdain frightened me - I used to sleep with my door locked.

Ouch!  It's hard to deal with that as an adult, let alone a kid.

I'm sure all this distortion blocks my ability to experience God.  Perhaps I'm still performing for His love.  Something I know I don't have to do - but the 18 inches from the head to the heart is a very, very long journey.

What would it feel like for you to experience God?  For me, I have to get very quiet and still, both physical and mental/emotional.  Then I feel connected to myself without thinking too much. Then I let myself feel connected to everything and everyone.  Then, he's there.  It sounds easy the way I wrote it, but it isn't.  I have to feel calm and connected.  One day, I hope that is more my natural state, but for now, I have to work to get really quiet with no distractions.  No booming voice for me, just very faint whipsers that I'm not sure that I've heard.  I don't if if this helps at all.  I think everyone has their own kind of relationship to God.  2c

So, although my ego would love to be viewed as a wise "old timer" in the land of recovery, I'm still wrestling with the basics.  That's just too bad...Thanks for that beautiful poem Stormchild.  I guess that's the best we can be, 'a friend to man'.  I'm grateful for a place to write my thoughts besides my journal.

The more progress I make the more I just work with the basics.  I take that as a good sign for me.  I've stripped off all those layers of false protection I built up over the years and can get back to just a basic, average human being the way I started out.