The Art of Not Being Offended by Dr. Jodi Prinzivalli

[phillip]

Portia-Thank you.  For me, healing has been more about understanding the root of the abuse, not about blaming.  I have often said that if my own father was an acquaintance, I would not choose to associate with him, at all.  I do not believe in happenstance.  I have been an avid astrologer for over 20 years, and I have clear evidence that our experiences and associations are purposeful.  There are lessons to learn and decisions and choices connected with all experience.  Our choices from moment to moment are pregnant with the nature of our future experiences.  Sometimes the smallest shift in how we react to input can have dramatic future repurcussions.  I believe this.  I refer to a song lyric, "The truth that we're searching for is so small, but it's as big as the coming of another day."  Peace sister and thanks again.

[Anonymous]

Dear Phillip:

I'm sorry for the loss of your father.  No matter what, there are things to mourn, in such cases, even if they are not obvious and sometimes, even confusing.  My deepest sympathy to you and your family.

I know that he loved us, he was always there for us.

That is such a nice thing to see you write.
It is something you can always hold onto and be glad of.  This might be where to find and experience some joy, even in his death and it could be an example of:

"One's personal power may be measured by our ability to experience joy at any given moment, and the clock is ticking."

I think there is great merit in those words, in that idea, and that it is good to live by this, as much as possible.  No one is perfect but it is certainly a good goal to have and work toward....finding as much joy as we can as often as possible.

I also liked your original post in this thread in which to me the main message is....that the hurt caused us is indeed not about us, but about them (the abuser).  We just happen to be in the wrong the place at the wrong time and became the receivers of offenses that would otherwise be directed at the next available target.   Therefore there is no real personal offense.  People who behave in a sick manner will do so toward whomever is the most convenient and tolerant or, helpless (such as a child).

Realizing this could help us to feel better about ourselves and lead us away from the pain and more toward...healing, if we choose to let go of all personal offense and focus on helping ourselves recover.

This is not an easy thing to do and I struggle with it too.  My mind tells me one thing but my heart says something else.  Eventually, I am confident that there will be peace between the two.  It is a challenge and the joy in it is knowing that success is possible....healing will happen.  It will take time but soon there will be more joy than pain in my life.  I am determined to make that happen and I hope it will happen for all here.

GFN

[Anonymous]

Phillip,

My condolences to you on the loss of your father....

bunny

[phillip]

I thank you kind people.

[catlover]

I'm getting better at not taking other people's actions (or lack thereof) personally, for the reasons described in this thread.  It's like something I read in a Carlos Castaneda book:  If you were being chased by a hungry lion, you wouldn't spend any energy being angry or offended at the lion - it's just what lions do.  

However, I'm still having a problem with the "spiritual" part of the equation.  I want to believe in a "higher power" and that "everything happens for a reason," but then I feel like I'm being punished by the Higher Power.  I feel sorry for myself, like why did I have to have this horrible childhood - it's not fair!!  To use the hungry lion analogy:  it's inevitable that some young antelope will get eaten by lions - this is not the lions' fault - but why did God have to make me one of the antelope that gets eaten young?  I am "offended" by God in this sense- I take it personally.  The answer that "life isn't fair" doesn't cut it for me.

One of my main goals in therapy right now is to "stop feeling sorry for myself".  My therapist is a Buddhist, and I have Buddhist leanings but don't consider myself to be one.  She says that I am an "old soul" who "chose my own parents" for a reason.  I told her I thought this was pretty far-fetched, and she replied that it may be, but if I could suspend disbelief and go along with it, I could move toward freedom from self-pity.  That may be, but it feels a bit like "new age" blame the victim, you're responsible for everything, you choose to feel badly, etc that I wrote about in another thread about Narcissistic comments.

Well, I'll continue to work on it:  "Progress, not perfection."

[Portia]

Gwyn:

One of my main goals in therapy right now is to "stop feeling sorry for myself".

Why? Why do I ask why? Because you don't seem full of self-pity to the point of it being detrimental.

We can pity our selves, especially the younger, child-selves. Does this stop us growing up? Hmmm. If we 'wallow' in that self-pity, yes (wallow = enjoy it and want to stay in it because it's easier than accepting and being very sad), but if we recognise it and continue real grieving? - I think that's healthy.

So - maybe it's too early to stop pitying your self? Stuffing feelings is not an option!

PS.

I want to believe in a "higher power" and that "everything happens for a reason

sometimes we give ourselves problems that if we stopped asking questions, wouldn't be problems. I don't know if things happen for a reason. I'm fairly happy not knowing that. If something happens to me that makes me need to believe that things happen for reason, then I'll believe it - but I don't see any point in forcing myself into a belief. Hope that makes sense.

[catlover]

Hi Portia,

Thanks for the reply- it does bring out some of the complexities of the situation (as usual, things don't fit into our neat "black and white" containers).  

My self-pity actually has been to the point of being detrimental quite a bit - to the point of suicidal ideation and one attempt.  BUT, maybe that was an attempt to, as you said, avoid the grief (it's too unfair/hurts too much to go on living - I'll show God "He" can't treat me this way and expect me to accept it!)  Also, a reaction to the expectation (which I internalized) that I be perfect (I can't possibly be perfect because my life has been so crappy, so since my life can't be "perfect" the way it's supposed to be, I might as well give up altogether.)

I think what you said about pitying our younger, child-selves hits the nail on the head; this requires stepping OUT OF our child selves and becoming a responsible adult.  I guess when I'm in self-pity, I AM the child-self.  I am now practicing paying more conscious attention to my child-self so that it doesn't "take over" so much.  Also, I do need to cultivate COMPASSION for myself, past and present, and I'm trying to figure out the difference between pity and compassion.

Thanks again for your reply - it really made me think a bit "greyer", which I constantly need to be reminded to do

[vunil]

I do need to cultivate COMPASSION for myself

Yes! Because I think those voices telling you (and me and all of us here) that we are being too sensitive, too focused on ourselves, too childish, whatever, are in part the voices from the N's in our lives.  They didn't want us focusing on ourselves at all, and made us feel terrible if we ever did.  And they were pretty happy to tell us that any insights we had and held dear were in fact wrong.  At least that's what my parents do (and did).

"Self-pity" implies that you are making it up, over-reacting.  That isn't clear to me.  I think what you are doing is feeling guilty about your own emotions, feeling ashamed of your own needs.  Boy does that ring a bell for me.  Please, don't!  You are allowed your own desires and needs, however "childish" that mean voice in your head tells you that they are.

As for depression and suicide, I don't think those are self-pitying reactions-- they are signs of real depression.  And depression isn't a sign of weakness or overindulgence.  It's a big wolloping hard thing to deal with that has a bazillion causes, many of them physical and some of them hereditary.

I hearby give you a break!  Please join me

[catlover]

Thanks Vunil  

My previous therapist (before I moved away) used to tell me:  "You are harder on yourself - and less deserving of it - than anyone I've ever met."  

A friend's therapist used to tell her that if her mind were a parent, it would be locked up for abuse of her inner child!

[phillip]

I'm getting better at not taking other people's actions (or lack thereof) personally, for the reasons described in this thread.  It's like something I read in a Carlos Castaneda book:  If you were being chased by a hungry lion, you wouldn't spend any energy being angry or offended at the lion - it's just what lions do.  

However, I'm still having a problem with the "spiritual" part of the equation.  I want to believe in a "higher power" and that "everything happens for a reason," but then I feel like I'm being punished by the Higher Power.  I feel sorry for myself, like why did I have to have this horrible childhood - it's not fair!!  To use the hungry lion analogy:  it's inevitable that some young antelope will get eaten by lions - this is not the lions' fault - but why did God have to make me one of the antelope that gets eaten young?  I am "offended" by God in this sense- I take it personally.  The answer that "life isn't fair" doesn't cut it for me.

One of my main goals in therapy right now is to "stop feeling sorry for myself".  My therapist is a Buddhist, and I have Buddhist leanings but don't consider myself to be one.  She says that I am an "old soul" who "chose my own parents" for a reason.  I told her I thought this was pretty far-fetched, and she replied that it may be, but if I could suspend disbelief and go along with it, I could move toward freedom from self-pity.  That may be, but it feels a bit like "new age" blame the victim, you're responsible for everything, you choose to feel badly, etc that I wrote about in another thread about Narcissistic comments.

Well, I'll continue to work on it:  "Progress, not perfection."

Gwn-Give to me your precise birth information.  Date of birth, city and precise birth time(Hopefully off your birth certificate. )  The closer to the moment of your first independent breath the better.  I will spend some time on your chart and make a believer out of you.  I know practically nothing about you and do not recall reading any of your posts with any significant memory.  I am a certified hypnotherapist and used to be particularly interested in past life regressions.  Now I do not bother much with it, because whatever the phenomenon is, it seems to be real.  I have the astrological tools at my disposal to condense and summarize your journey in THIS life.  I would be pleased to focus on your present incarnation if you would like.  I do not do this professionally, though at some later time, I might.  Remember though, the birth time must be precise.  If you choose to keep this private, you may e-mail me at pvukovi@aol.com

[Anonymous]

However, I'm still having a problem with the "spiritual" part of the equation.  I want to believe in a "higher power" and that "everything happens for a reason," but then I feel like I'm being punished by the Higher Power.  I feel sorry for myself, like why did I have to have this horrible childhood - it's not fair!!  To use the hungry lion analogy:  it's inevitable that some young antelope will get eaten by lions - this is not the lions' fault - but why did God have to make me one of the antelope that gets eaten young?  I am "offended" by God in this sense- I take it personally.  The answer that "life isn't fair" doesn't cut it for me.

My theory, for what it's worth, is that spirituality isn't about God rewarding the good and punishing the bad. Also that God does not take a personal interest in each and every human being. It's more of an impersonal energy running the universe. Bad and good stuff happens to everyone. Life is random with some chaos thrown in. We can make an effort prevent as much bad stuff as we can, and adapt to all that comes along (roll with the punches). I do NOT believe that everything happens for a purpose. Some of it has a purpose but not all of it.

My goal in therapy would probably not be to stop a feeling. It might be to stop ruminating if I were doing that.

She says that I am an "old soul" who "chose my own parents" for a reason.  I told her I thought this was pretty far-fetched, and she replied that it may be, but if I could suspend disbelief and go along with it, I could move toward freedom from self-pity.  That may be, but it feels a bit like "new age" blame the victim, you're responsible for everything, you choose to feel badly, etc that I wrote about in another thread about Narcissistic comments.

Man, I wish therapists wouldn't impose their personal beliefs on patients...it's so oppressive....reminds me of my family. Bottom line, I would not argue with her belief but tell her that it doesn't help me to hear this stuff.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I will spend some time on your chart and make a believer out of you

Why?

[vunil]

My previous therapist (before I moved away) used to tell me: "You are harder on yourself - and less deserving of it - than anyone I've ever met."

I had a therapist say to me once, in exasperation, "you sure do want me to say that there is something terribly wrong with you!  But there isn't!"

Sometimes I would bring her sure-thing "evidence" for my awfulness/craziness and she would just laugh at me.  Looking back I think she was very patient because boy was I obsessed.  With making myself look terrible...

I really believed I was flawed because I had been told it so much.  And if they had their way my parents would still have me believing it.  Forget that when you look at their lives, their successes, their self-knowledge, their ability to love and be comfortable in their skin, there is nothing that they have on me!  To imply that I am the "broken" one is just nutty.  But it's still how they relate to me, and how they always will.  

I feel so much empathy for all of us, trying to heal from this.  I am jealous of people who were loved for themselves as children.  Sigh.

[vunil]

She says that I am an "old soul" who "chose my own parents" for a reason.

Some people really get comfort from these philosophies.  For me, I really needed to stop seeing anything about myself as potentially "asking for it" or "inherently deserving/desirous" of my childhood.    I had to see it as squarely and utterly my parents' fault.  Even if they were shaped by other forces in their lives, and they were, it was their job to get unshaped!  They had children.  They were shitty parents.  That is not a great thing to be.  If you are going to have children, don't be a shitty parent.  The end.

I guess everyone's different.  For me, mute acceptance of the "universe's plan" just echoed what I had been doing my whole life, lying down and taking the abuse, thinking it was my lot in life.  Getting good and angry (grrrrrrr!) was a liberator for me  

But, you know, your mileage will vary.  Everyone has their spiritual beliefs....  In my belief system, god is just as angry as I am that people have to suffer, and certainly wishes it didn't have to happen.

[phillip]

I will spend some time on your chart and make a believer out of you

Why?

Why not?  We are all here attempting to support our own healing and each others'. Are we not?  We all add input as well as we can, based on our own personal experiences and sense of what works for us.  By closing ANY door we limit our options.  Isaac Newton was an accomplished astrologer.  He was once chided by a contemporary scientist how he could possibly subscribe to such unscientific theories as astrology.  His response was, "But sir, I have studied astrology, and you have not."

Sometimes healing may be as simple as a reframing of the context with which we see ourselves.  Perception, after all, is everything.