An unanswered question

[October]

I feel like such a failure in everyway.  This feeling makes me have no energy to move forward, b/c it just sucks the life out of me, both emotionally and psychologically.  Has anyone felt this way?  How did you find the inner strength to move forward??

What I would do is make a boundary that I can no longer say this stuff anymore. Not even if it's true. It is now taboo. Why? Because this reinforces the brainwashing and creates a depressed, tired, life-energy-sucked-out situation. You may have to give up the familiarity of these thoughts. It won't be easy but each time you observe yourself saying these putdowns, stop and say something different like "Today is the first day of the rest of my life" (seriously..). Do you think you can?  

bunny

This may not be too easy.  I think you are right, Bunny, but it would  not be possible for me to set a boundary without that becoming another level of failure.

Perhaps it could be approached by thinking, who agrees with me on this one?  Chances are the N parent would be top of the list, and - surprise surprise - there would be no list.

One of the most important books I have read recently is called Grace Unfolding - it was recommended on this site.  It talks about psychotherapy in the spirit of the Tao te Ching, and the most important lesson I learned from it is that the healing we need is already within us.  We are not broken or damaged, although we may feel as if we are.  If we were broken we would not still be here.  The fact that we are is a testament to our resilience, our strength, our sanity and our innate goodness.  

As I see it, Butterfly, you are a very caring person, with a genuine ability to see those around you, and to appreciate the individual gifts of each one.  You took great care to respond to each of us as individuals.  I myself struggle with issues of invisibility and found your approach very caring and validating.  You have a great deal to offer, both to us here and to the world around you.  You are not the problem.  You are the solution.  

The inner strength is there.  You just have to find a way to tap into it.  (As do I.)

[Anonymous]

I feel like I'm climbing a mountain but I can't seem to be moving any closer to the pinnacle.

Butterfly, take smaller steps and don't look back.  Mountain climbing is rigorous work and the ascent is slow but when you finally start making it up there, the view is breathtaking and the accomplishment is satisfying.  You have the gear and the map but the trudging is up to you.

I could still feel the residual pain from those words my mother said to me.

Look, I'm going to be very blunt here.  I think I know exactly what you mean by such crushing, cruel, spirit recking words because I've experienced similar episodes and for me.....the pain of those words was/is excruciating and very deep.  It is over 30 years later and if I think about those words, I can feel the exact same hurt, I can suffer very severely and I can hear those words being said, over and over and feel how I felt.

But I chose not to.

I chose not to let THAT tape play any more.  I have decided.  I don't want to listen to that crap any more.  I don't have to listen to it and I won't be listening to it again because it's not doing me any good.  Each time I allow it to play it causes more harm.  And I'm not interested in harming myself by allowing it to play any more.

It's a choice.  One must decide NOT to allow such thoughts to prevail, as Bunny said, as soon as they begin, a stop must be put to them and something much more useful, beneficial, something good that helps...must be substituted.

It isn't magic.  It's something that requires effort and perseverence.  Think of spending half the energy you are spending on feeling bad....on trying to feel better and imagine the improvement??

No one else, no therapy, no kind words from others, no hugs, no love, no friendship, no mate, no other person on this earth can turn that stuff off in our heads.

We have to do it ourselves.

People hurt us when we were little children.

Now we are adults and we don't have to let them keep hurting us.

We can choose to take that power away from them by cutting their stupid words out of our minds and putting truthful, loving, helpful thoughts there instead.

It's our choice.

Please, please excuse me for lecturing.  I only mean to try to help.
Repetition.  Consistency.  Effort.  Determination.
These are the tools and maps that can lead us up the high mountain road and free us from a stagnant, pointless, suffering and drudgery.

October:

This may not be too easy.

Nothing worth achieving is easy...... but it is doable.

...it would not be possible for me to set a boundary without that becoming another level of failure.

October, you are an intelligent, caring, kind, giving, logical, warm, witty, gentle, sweet person, as far as I can see.  Why are you being so mean to yourself?

Forget this thought.  Kick it out of your brain!  Anything is possible if you decide to try for it.  You may not achieve total and utter bliss but life can be so much better for you.  Dear, dear October, don't give up before you begin!

Would you let your child say such a thing without trying to help her see her potential for success??

"Mummy, some kid at school says I'm stupid and I can't stop hearing those words.  They keep playing in my head and to be honest....I think I am stupid.  I can't.......try to stop the tape or set that boundary (of substituting kind words to myself in my head) without that becoming another level of failure".

((((((((((((October))))))))))))

I hope I haven't offended you.  I just can't help but point out your potential and .......ask you.......why you are allowing yourself to embrace frailure??

If this is something we have learned since childhood then it is something we must re-teach ourselves correctly.   It is hard work.  It is a choice to begin that construction and learn those new lessons.

GFN

[sleepyhead]

Hi again, Butterfly!

I feel like I'm climbing a mountain but I can't seem to be moving any closer to the pinnacle.

Wow, do I recognise this! My mental picture was that I was on a treadmill and I kept running to keep up, but the speed kept increasing just a fraction at a time. Somehow I manged to stop running, but instead of keeping walking I sat down. I don't have a middle ground it seems... Anyway, I am now at the grand old age of 32, I still don't have a career (have had jobs, of course, but nothing that has anything to do with my education), I have no money saved up and at the moment no job... But you know what? It's not the end of the world!     I have not done any of things you are supposed to do before you're 30, but I'm ok anyway. I've had to realise that my childhood made me fall behind in many ways, since so much energy is devoted to keep the pain under control, so I need to allow myself a lot of leeway and special consideration. I have done other things that,however pointless they may seem to anyone else, where necessary for me.

About not seeing the screwups around you: Maybe you don't hold them to the same opressive standards as you do yourself? Next time you "screw up" and that tape starts in your head, ask yourself this: "If someone else had done this, would I think that they were stupid/an idiot/whatever?" You will probably find that you wouldn't.

[mum]

Butterfly,
I think everyone here is on the mark.  As soon as you learn kindness towards yourself, you will be able to set boundaries with others.  And then in a very nice cycle, you will then set boundaries in your own head, for what you will even allow yourself to say to yourself.  Make sense?

When you get to the point where you no longer allow ANYONE (including your old negative self talk) to attack you, you'll be able to relax and enjoy life so much more.  It all goes together, but again, as many have said, it's a choice.  You get to make that choice.  

For me, it was a frightening step, making that choice, realizing that power.  For to make that choice, I had to admit I allowed this stuff to happen (maybe not at first, but later in giving away control of my own mind).  That's a good time to be nice to yourself, by the way.  Let it go, past is past.  What you do right now is the important stuff!

So understand it IS entirely up to you, the responsibility and the POWER as well, is all yours.  And make a choice. Sounds easy?  It is and it isn't.  If it were easy, would we all be here?  And if it were impossible, would we all be here?

Hard learning is usually good learning!!!

[Guest from afar]

Hi Butterfly,

Everyone has given great advice above.

I also was impressed how you responded to each person individually with some feedback in your response. That is an extremely caring (and complex) thing to do. So you have already shown you have great connectivity with others socially, and you have some important skills.

But how did you reach that level of connectivity and skill? Why, by a cycle of practice, assess, learn, practice, assess, learn, etc. The same is true for learning any new skill. Therefore, if you do something and fail at it, you are in the "practice, assess" stages and all you then have to do is learn from your mistake and keep practising. Eventually, you would become as good at that thing as you are at writing and supporting others, as you've done here.

Making mistakes is an ESSENTIAL component of learning a new skill. Everyone else learning and becoming skilled is making mistakes along the way, too. Not everyone will tell you this however, because not everyone is nice enough to admit it. I can tell you that I am good at certain things (at work, for example) and I became skilled in those things by making a lot of mistakes. However, I enjoy learning from my mistakes and becoming better at the activity/task the next time I try.

So I think if you can really see the mistakes in a positive way, you will be able to make them work to your advantage. Mistakes are a necessary part of growth and development. Without mistakes, we would all stagnate. We NEED to make mistakes, day after day.

All the best,

Guest-from-afar (female in my fifties)

[mum]

oh, and by the way, Butterfly: 30? Please, you're a babe in the woods!  If I had learned this stuff (that you are learning) at 30.....wow!!  Seriously, until only recently I felt like a 12 year old with certain people. Age is nothing.  It's not how old you are, it's what you know.  My daughter was 70 when she was 4.... a wise old soul.

[bunny]

This may not be too easy.  I think you are right, Bunny, but it would  not be possible for me to set a boundary without that becoming another level of failure.

I'd say to myself, "Oh, now you're putting yourself down for needing a boundary. No more put-downs. Put-ups!" This would be said without self-hate, just an observation and pep talk. BTW my little niece won't let anyone say a put-down. They taught her about put-downs at school. She points it out to us when we're doing it.

P.S. Richard Grossman was the one who recommended Grace Unfolding. It's a great book.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Butterfly,

I still haven't figured out yet on how to transfer a statement I want to quote onto this reply page  Can anyone plz help.

GFN helped me with this. I'll pass it on.

Left click and drag your pointer to highlight the text you want to quote.
Right click the text. From the pop up menu click 'copy'.
Go to your reply box;
Left click where you want the quote.
Right click again, from the pop up menu click 'paste'; the text should appear.
Left click and drag your pointer to highlight the text again.
Go the the menu above your reply box and click "quote".
Voila, when you post it will be highlighted as a quote.
You wrote,

I'm on the verge of turning 30yrs-old. Looking back at my life, I feel like I failed in so many areas, and haven't accomplished the things that I wanted to accomplish before I hit 30.

Two things.
The fact that you are approaching thirty in and of itself could be putting stress on you. That's one of those milestone years which some people don't handle too well.
Second, very few people are satisfied with what they accomplish. I haven't done everything I could have, nowhere near it. You only fail if you quit trying. Concentrate on what you have succeeded at and build on that.
They asked Winston Churchill to give a speech to group of students one time. Part of his speech was,
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."
That's how to accomplish things. When you fall down you get up and "Never give in". That's how to deal with Ns as well.

mudpup

[October]

I feel like I'm climbing a mountain but I can't seem to be moving any closer to the pinnacle.

Butterfly, take smaller steps and don't look back.  Mountain climbing is rigorous work and the ascent is slow but when you finally start making it up there, the view is breathtaking and the accomplishment is satisfying.  You have the gear and the map but the trudging is up to you.

Just a small thought on this image, which is a nice Western one, but may be changed for another more helpful one, with a bit of Buddhist thinking.

To Buddhists, certain mountains are sacred, and to climb them would be sacrilegeous.  When they approach a holy mountain, they walk around the base, admiring the view and praying or doing whatever it is that Buddhists do, but they do not strive to reach the summit.  The mountain is there to be a mountain, not to be conquered or climbed.

Maybe that would help, as a thought about your own notional life mountain.  It is too sacred to climb.  It is to walk around - so you never will reach the top, but you also will never fail to do what you are there to do - to walk around the mountain.  

[Joey]

I'm new also Butterfly.  Keep reading and listening to what other N survivors have to say.  We have been conditioned from a very early age, that we are at fault for most everything that upsets a N.  

I learned that I had outgrown my parents emotionally by the age of 7   and they made me the parent in the family, but treated me with the contempt of an unruly child.  I really belive that they never really mature past a 6 year old, yet have the ability to look wonderful to outsiders.  I once read that there is really nothing to love about a 6 year old if you really think about their actions.  They are ego-centric, lie to get out of trouble, and are often terribly mean to their peers.  Yet, we love these children, probably because they are just that - children.    

When a N grows up and pulls the same antics on "loved ones" it is just not the same.  People get really hurt and will not recover without a lot of work and "retraining" of their thought processes.  Keep working on helping yourself.  God Bless.  Joey

[October]

October:

Nothing worth achieving is easy...... but it is doable.

For you it is possible.  For some it is not.     I hope that Butterfly can do it, but if she cannot, then she will not be alone in that.  

October, you are an intelligent, caring, kind, giving, logical, warm, witty, gentle, sweet person, as far as I can see.  Why are you being so mean to yourself?

You need to ask?  

I hope I haven't offended you.  I just can't help but point out your potential and .......ask you.......why you are allowing yourself to embrace failure??

If this is something we have learned since childhood then it is something we must re-teach ourselves correctly.   It is hard work.  It is a choice to begin that construction and learn those new lessons.

GFN

You have not offended me.  I am still a relatively young person, and I should still be able to do everything that I have the potential to do.  Nonetheless, I have had to admit to limitations because of how I am.  I have had complex ptsd and depression for at least 8 years.  I am social phobic.  I have few social contacts left, and rarely leave my home.  I know that there are lots of things I ought to be able to do, and lots of things I am not doing at present.  But I do what I can when I can, and I take each small achievement as being sufficient to the day.

The process of being limited more and more, by inches, over almost a decade, has been endlessly painful.  I am a gregarious person.  I like to be with other people, and I like to share with them and walk beside them.  It is very difficult to choose to remain at home instead in order to minimise symptoms of how I am, but I have to.  Until I have found enough of the way out, which I think I am doing, bit by bit.

But what I cannot do is to talk myself into being sorted when I am not yet sorted, or reject all the programming in my head that should not be there, and that is full of lies about the person I ought to have been, but somehow never quite managed.  It is not enough to say, 'stop thinking that way!'

I was just trying to be honest, that is all.  This is not embracing failure.  I am still alive, and still kicking.  The people who are failing in this are the ones who want to destroy me, and my spirit, and make me lie down and die.  Every day I stay alive I make liars of them.  That is not failure.  That is a great victory.

[Anonymous]

October,

I am still alive, and still kicking. The people who are failing in this are the ones who want to destroy me, and my spirit, and make me lie down and die. Every day I stay alive I make liars of them. That is not failure. That is a great victory.

Good stuff! Quitting is the only failure. Of course we can take a rest now and then, even God did.  
They want us to quit, because that validates their warped view of the world. They were right about our defects all along, don't you see?

So, since you're still alive and kicking the next time you're out and about you should find an N and kick him.  
That might make you want to go out more. Maybe?
You can kick one for me while you're at it.

mudpuppy

[October]

So, since you're still alive and kicking the next time you're out and about you should find an N and kick him.  
That might make you want to go out more. Maybe?
You can kick one for me while you're at it.

So many to choose from ... so little time.  

Thanks MP. xxx

[October]

I'd say to myself, "Oh, now you're putting yourself down for needing a boundary. No more put-downs. Put-ups!" This would be said without self-hate, just an observation and pep talk.
bunny

Everything is easy once you can do it.  I am still at the level of conscious incompetence; a very long stage of any learning event.  

[bunny]

Everything is easy once you can do it.  I am still at the level of conscious incompetence; a very long stage of any learning event.  

Things are not easy once I can do them. For example I hate driving and I can drive. It's still not easy. In that case and others, I might force myself to do "counterintuitive" things because it's in my interest. One of the things I decided was, telling myself negative things was not in my interest so I can't do it anymore even if I want to, even if it comforts me in a perverse way, even if everything in me screams to do it. And I may do it anyway. But I will see it happening. That's the main thing.

bunny