An unanswered question

[mum]

Thanks, guys.  I'm glad you got my meaning....clear as mud as it can be at times (no offense intended Mud!).

This very concept of "everybody else needs to be miserable" was manifested in my life  yesterday, as I picked my son up from an afternoon with dad and he was dark and cranky and worried (not his normal character).  He was told by his dad to "get mom to commit" to a certain amount of money toward his college tuition (he is a junior).  I said, this should be between me and your dad and we have already discussed it and my son said, "NO dad gave me a chart of how much he would pay and to what schools and under what conditions.  I need to know how much you will chip in and since I know you're broke, Now I am all upset and worried...how am I ever going to get to college!!!!???"
I told him to relax, I will see what I can do, beyond that there are scholarships (" mom, you act like I'll get them for sure, but what if I don't......then what???) so I continued, there is financial aid.....etc.

My son, who is normally very relaxed and happy was now out of control catastrophizing everything....you could almost see his father's dark cloud above the poor kids head.  Geeeesh.

And my happy go lucky kid actually said to ME, "how can you be all happy all the time when this is coming up and must be decided NOW?"

I can only pray that what I am doing (being happy) helps my son to diffuse the negativity his dad  seems determined to make him feel.  Uccckkky yucky man!

[October]

I think basically, N's are threatened by the innate power and love (the ultimate power) that we, as nice people, have.  They see this as a threat and want to shut us up. They are so afraid of the "truth" coming out (that love is everywhere, love is all there is, love is the power/God is in all of us)....  and worse yet, that the truth may come out of US!!  How dare we speak and demonstrate power?
WE are so nice, we assume everyone is, and agree to shut up. We think, well, they must be right, as everyone must be as loving as we are.
The worst of this "wrong" learning (that most of us now "unlearning")  is that its' done when we are young, innocent and impressionable, so it becomes a belief system.  Then it runs our lives, until we figure it out.

This is a good summary of our situation from our point of view.  I suspect that the N sees it rather differently.  They have no authentic experience of altruism or empathy; their world view is one where self rules, and everything else is subordinate to that.

If they are capable of stepping into anyone else's shoes, that is what they will take with them.  So they look at us being loving and kind, and they ask themselves, 'what are they after; what is in it for them'.  They assume that our motivation is the same as theirs.

So, to them, we are fundamentally selfish, with a veneer of friendliness and love.  We are the ultimate hypocrites.  While they, of course, are honest as the day is long.  They call a spade a spade (gardening metaphor, not racist one, I hope), and do not pretend what they do not feel (as they assume we do.)

My ex MIL refused to come to my ex's confirmation, which took place shortly before our marriage ended.  She said she would not cross the street to go, and would not go into a church for such a service, because it would be hypocritical of her.  In saying that she was in effect condemning everyone else who was going - and her son - as hypocrites, and in the process feeling very superior to them.  Because she could not believe, she could not accept that anyone else did.  I told her what I thought of her as a parent for that.  Enjoyed it, to be honest.  Telling the truth is very cathartic, at times.  

They have no wish to become as insincere, hypocritical and false as we are.  And fortunately for them, there is no chance that they will ever do so.  Because they would have to go via the difficult route of self knowledge and humility, and in the process learn what love actually is.

Can't be done.

[Anonymous]

Hi October,
I was going to pick out some quotes from your post to agree with but it ended up being the whole darn thing so I'll just say you nailed it again. You are one sharp lady.
I can't tell you how many times I have been called a hypocrite. I guess the logic is if you try to be a decent person like most people do and you occasionally stub your toe, you're a hypocrite.
But if you set out to be perpetually angry, try to destroy people who won't kow tow to you and generally make yourself a pain in the arse to all and sundry and you actually succeed at doing all these things, ipso facto; you're not a hypocrite! Congratulations Ns of the world. You are very GENUINE jackasses.

mudpuppy

[October]

You are one sharp lady.

   

[Butterfly]

It seems that N's have a lot of vulnerabilities they are afraid to reveal.  Otherwise, they wouldn't feel so threatened by good-hearted folks.  They want everybody to feel as miserable(though, they may not show it) as them or worse then them.  If not, then they think something is wrong with you and subconsciously perceive you as their enemy.  And their mission is to seek and destroy.  That's sounds very warped to me.

[bunny]

My ex MIL refused to come to my ex's confirmation, which took place shortly before our marriage ended.  She said she would not cross the street to go, and would not go into a church for such a service, because it would be hypocritical of her.  In saying that she was in effect condemning everyone else who was going - and her son - as hypocrites, and in the process feeling very superior to them.  Because she could not believe, she could not accept that anyone else did.  I told her what I thought of her as a parent for that.  Enjoyed it, to be honest.  Telling the truth is very cathartic, at times.   :twisted.

And it's a lame excuse. Who cares if she believes or not.  No one is checking her credentials. According to her theory, anyone who attends a wedding, bar mitzvah, funeral, baptism, confirmation, etc., without totally buying into the host family's belief system, is a hypocrite. That is just stupid.

bunny

[OR]

Hey Butterfly,

Wanted to get in on this thread. I had a mother who could let me know how I was different. If I did or said somthing it was wrong or not the best thing to do or say. She gave me such a complex I grew up not trusting her view point, because everthiing was wrong.

I find if I laugh about my mistakes, I make light of the errors in my life.
When I do something dumb, I laugh so everyone can hear. I don't try and hide it or be ashamed of the mistake.  Somtimes it's better if you don't say too much, you should let it go, shake it off. Get the Idea you made a funny thing happen not a dumb thing.

Try and laugh, others around you will think it's not so serious.

I'm trying to make this work in my life even in a serious time admitting my Marrage was a big mistake. I'm going to laugh once in awhile, tell myself life with an N was a big joke on me.  How I will see the next clown coming. We can all learn something from our mistakes.

OR

[Butterfly]

Good afternoon everyone,

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who misinterprets sentences.   Mum, after I carefully read your October Sky posting again, i got it.  It sure helps to read things twice sometimes.   By the way, how is your son doing with his college situation?  Planning for college can be such a stressful thing.  I hope things will work out.  I'm sure it will.

Hello Brigid.  So you think I'm young?  I don't feel it.   Age is a funny thing.  A person in their 50s can feel more alive than a person in their 20s.  It is quite a relative concept, it seems.  I agree with you that it is not easy to change from negative thinking to positive thinking.  Nothing has worked for me yet.  Even trying hard doesn't seem to be effective for me, I keep on losing my grip, and end up the same place where I started.  Going to a therapist is a recent and new concept for me.  Although, I can see how a good therapist can be very helpful.  I wouldn't know where to begin.  Wouldn't know how to search for a good therapist.  

Hi, OR.  Sure, everyone makes mistakes.  That's easy for me to say when I'm not in the heat of the moment.  But, when I feel I'm being observed or expected to live up to a certain standard, then I feel pressure to not make any mistakes.  If I do, then I feel I've disappointed those who have a high expectations of me.  When I do make stupid or careless mistakes I internalize it and feel ashamed of making dumb mistakes.  I haven't been able to detach my competence as an individual from the mistakes I make.  I find that I make more mistakes when I put pressure on myself to adhere to an imaginary standard that I think others have of me.  I start to lose self-confidence and lose focus of the big picture when I start to feel ashamed for making errors, b/c that's all I can see.   Then I get all worked up about it and feel very tense.  Those mistakes are projected right in front of my mind's eyes, staring me straight in the face.  I want to be able to laugh at my own mistakes and not take it so seriously.  What mindset do you put yourself in, for you to be able to make light of the matter?  What approach do you find works for you?

[October]

According to her theory, anyone who attends a wedding, bar mitzvah, funeral, baptism, confirmation, etc., without totally buying into the host family's belief system, is a hypocrite. That is just stupid.

bunny

You're right.  She did a lot of harm to my ex with her attitude.  He had nobody from his family there.  Only me and our daughter, and my aunt and uncle and cousin, who came to give him support.  And she is still doing it.  He is dying, and his parents refuse to believe it.  Can't go too far into this, because I have to keep a distance now, but it is very hard to see what is happening to him.

You can imagine what fun I could have if she eventually were accorded a Christian funeral, and what I could do and say about that.   (But, of course, I wouldn't.)

She says things like 'I thought Christians weren't supposed to do <whatever>.'  Making it an extension of the hypocricy motif.    And ex used to use 'Christian' as a term of abuse to me, too, now I think about it.

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone:

Hiya Butterfly:

...it is not easy to change from negative thinking to positive thinking.

I think this is probably one of the toughest things to do.  It seems so big..doesn't it?

It's like trying to change entirely from one kind of creature to another   (seems impossible, almost--it did to me, anyway).

Instead....how about a little change....taking it in baby steps, so to speak?

For instance....rather than expecting your thinking to change from all the nasty stuff...to real positive thoughts, all at once, or every time, how about....when you make a mistake, sometime, deciding to at least...insert one positive thought, along with all the other not so positive ones.

Kind of plan ahead......"Next time I make a really embarassing mistake and start kicking myself mentally for it,  I will try really hard to at least remind myself that I'm not perfect, I'm ok, and maybe even laugh at myself."

It needs to be learned.......imprinted in our brain (as the stuff that drags us back is imprinted there needs to be overwritten).  So maybe, for example, writing out some sort of statement/plan/goal....for the next time you make a mistake...and reading it over, often, thinking about doing it.....might help??

.....I feel pressure to not make any mistakes. If I do, then I feel I've disappointed those who have a high expectations of me. When I do make stupid or careless mistakes I internalize it and feel ashamed of making dumb mistakes. I haven't been able to detach my competence as an individual from the mistakes I make.

This sounds like you have a preconceived idea in your mind about exactly how perfect you must be, in order to pass the test of being observed by others, and that if you do make a mistake.....you have decided that other people will think you are stupid or careless (and that you think your mistakes are stupid and careless...maybe not just the mistake is...but YOU are stupid and careless to make such mistakes???)...and so you feel ashamed???
You think your worth as a person is directly linked to how many and what type of mistakes you make/have made and what others think??

If so.....would it help to start telling yourself that you don't give a hoot what other people think?  I mean....daily...and really, really work at helping yourself believe that your worth does not depend on what other people think?

You are a valuable person.  Would it help to tell yourself this, often, to reinforce your value to and within yourself??

These were things that definately helped me.

GFN

[Anonymous]

Hi all again:

October wrote:

And ex used to use 'Christian' as a term of abuse to me, too, now I think about it.

He was programmed to think all Christians are hypocrites and believed it?

Then.....he used your core beliefs against you?

I bet that hurt!!!  

Jerk!!

GFN

[October]

He was programmed to think all Christians are hypocrites and believed it?

Then.....he used your core beliefs against you?

I bet that hurt!!!  

Thanks GFN

Strangely enough, all I remember is confusion, wondering why I was accused of so much, when actually guilty of so little.  

I didn't let the hurt get through.  If you show an abusive drunk that you are hurt, or vulnerable in any way, you are asking for trouble.  I stood my ground, even when he threatened me.  Once, when he couldn't get his own way, he said he was going to break every window in the house.  Our  daughter was there and she started to cry.  I ignored him, but picked her up and said to her, don't worry.  Daddy is free to break every window if he wants to; that is his choice.  But I am then free to ring the police and that is my choice, and that is what I will do, and Daddy will then be taken away.  Then I took her out of the house.  When we came back, the windows were all still there.

What he saw was someone very strong, who he could not destroy or overcome.  It was only after he left that I ended up night after night for months, curled on the floor, in the dark, after my young daughter had gone to bed, crying and crying.  He never knew.

Doesn't happen now.  Well, not often.  

[mum]

(((((October)))))). I'm sorry you cried on the floor. I've been there, and it would frustrate me that the floor didn't get any lower than it was. If it had been a hole, I'd have crawled down in it.
You talk about your daughter a lot, and you really sound like an incredible mom.  I wonder if, like me, it's your child that keeps you alive.

My children are what got me off the floor.  When thier dad cheated on me, for the umpteenth (and last) time 9 years ago, they were younger and I HAD to take care of them....if not, I wouldn't have gotten out of bed for a year, I think.
Then last year, when I lost my bid to relocate and everything seemed so dark (including my spot on the floor), a well placed jolt to the heart from my otherwise non-confrontational son did it for me.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry for your pain (((((((October)))))) and yours too ((((((Mum)))))).

Many of those tears were tears of frustration, for me.  17 years is a long time to cry (I spent that long with/married to an alcoholic) and then after.  It becomes habit.

But......the good news is.....habits can be changed/altered/obliterated.

It was only after he left that I ended up night after night for months, curled on the floor, in the dark, after my young daughter had gone to bed, crying and crying.

What is it about dark?   I always turned off all the lights, after my kids went to bed, back then, after he was finally gone.  I was nicer to myself than you though, October and Mum.  I sat in a cozy lounge chair, in the corner and rocked.

I did pray a lot between crying and I know that helped keep me from totally losing it.  (Thankyou God).

....a well placed jolt to the heart from my otherwise non-confrontational son did it for me.

I used to think I was a fairly positive person until I have had the priviledge of speaking with you, Mum.  You have inspired me to try harder!

I'm glad your son did this for you.

 

GFN

[mum]

GFN: I just wrote what I thought to be a very understandable post (a feat for me, as you know) and my computer quit on me...uggh.  so I will try to be quick (and maybe not understandable?)
Thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot coming from one who I always thought to be such an enlightened soul.. thank you again.

What my last reply was about was this: Faith.
I realize that my darkest moments are when I have lost faith: in myself, in  love, in God, in the inherent goodness of humankind.  My most unwise choices have been made in moments where I have lost faith.  My best have been made with giant leaps of faith.  And it is basically a faith in myself/and or God/and or the Universe....extrapolate away!.  So when I am true to myself, I do best....the truth certainly has set me free!

I am not always "pain free", but I find I spend less time "stuck" in pain than ever before.  I can choose to feel the pain and use it to learn (and if I want to explore the pain....then damnit, I will!) and then when I am done with it, I can let go and transform it, and feel something else instead. It's up to me!

Sounds easy, I know.  But like you said, it's baby steps, and just like a baby is determined to figure out this thing called walking....we can all do it!!
October, I admire you greatly.  You are moving through.  It's all good.