Confrontation

[Anonymous]

I can't stop crying...I still find this all so very sad.  Our loved ones were not born this way.  From what I understand this damn disorder is apparently a result inflicted upon them from a painful or horrific childhood.  Burried so deep, they themselves can't recall it.  Why then do we condemn them if they know not what they do?  I am so trying to make sense of all this.  I do feel sorry for him.  I also feel so very sorry for his grown children and am considering sharing my thoughts with his adult daughter to help her gain further understanding of her terrible upbringing. Again, thank-you for letting me vent.

I think we're looking at the inner workings of a narcissist so that we can make decisions about how to deal with them. People will avoid the decisions they need to make by analyzing the N over and over. Even after they make a decision and take action, there may be some second-guessing, guilt, ambivalence, etc. I don't think it's condemnation but a way to stall for time or process ambivalent feelings. Your talking to his adult daughter is a way of stalling for time, because she can't tell you what to do. It's also an indirect way of telling him he's a narcissist by telling her that he is one. That's my observation -  what do you think?

bunny

[N-Jaded]

Bunny,
His daughter has told me some about her childhood..nothing good.  She has many unanswered questions.  Am I wrong for feeling that by telling her it may somehow be therapeutic for her?  Her 5 yr old son was just diag. obsessive-compulsive w/mild autism.

[Jaded911]

Does he have Asperger's Syndrome N-Jaded?

[Jaded911]

I can't stop crying...I still find this all so very sad.  Our loved ones were not born this way.  From what I understand this damn disorder is apparently a result inflicted upon them from a painful or horrific childhood.  Burried so deep, they themselves can't recall it.  Why then do we condemn them if they know not what they do?  I am so trying to make sense of all this.  I do feel sorry for him.  I also feel so very sorry for his grown children and am considering sharing my thoughts with his adult daughter to help her gain further understanding of her terrible upbringing. Again, thank-you for letting me vent.

I think we're looking at the inner workings of a narcissist so that we can make decisions about how to deal with them. People will avoid the decisions they need to make by analyzing the N over and over. Even after they make a decision and take action, there may be some second-guessing, guilt, ambivalence, etc. I don't think it's condemnation but a way to stall for time or process ambivalent feelings. Your talking to his adult daughter is a way of stalling for time, because she can't tell you what to do. It's also an indirect way of telling him he's a narcissist by telling her that he is one. That's my observation -  what do you think?

bunny

I can understand what you are saying N-Jaded.  I know you are trying to help her understand why her childhood was the way it was but.....

IMHO it could also be your way of validating your experiences with him aws well.  I don't know if I phrased that right but what I mean to say is that it is at times surreal when you are dealing with this stuff.  I can remember thinking "what the F** just happened here?"  It was so bizarre at times that I think I sought out answers or validation that it wasnt just me that thought this was off the charts.  

Also, plz remember this.  You are talking to an individual who probly searched for years for ways to try to please that man.  This is no exception.  Every thing you tell her could be used as ammunition if she decides to use this experience to gain approval from her dad.  

If I were you, I would confide in a trusting friend who has nothing to gain from you N.  This will give you neutral input and everything you say will be confidential and safe within your trusted friend.  I am not saying this would happen but it is exactly what occured in my situation.

It appeared my ex-N sister was the only stable one in the family.  Her and I became friends and when the chit hit the fan I confided in her.  Eventually I learned that the little girl that so desperately needed attention within her family was the driving force in this adult.  Every word I said was twisted as she told lie after lie to gain a "Thats a girl" from her N family.

So please approach her with caution.  I agree that you did the right thing by putting the bug in her ear.  However this can be so overwhelming that it becomes obsessive.  Maybe a trained individual would better help her deal with the long lasting affects of this tangled web they weave.

[Anonymous]

His daughter has told me some about her childhood..nothing good.  She has many unanswered questions.  Am I wrong for feeling that by telling her it may somehow be therapeutic for her?  Her 5 yr old son was just diag. obsessive-compulsive w/mild autism.

It wouldn't be so much "wrong" as misguided and inadvisable. It's not your place to be therapeutic to her. If she brings up her childhood again, if it were me, I'd ask her if she ever considered seeing a therapist.

bunny

[Anonymous]

N Jaded:

I really don't where we are in the midst of this conversation but I can say I am very sorry for whomever was diagnosed with autism.  The parents will need all the help they can get.  Sorry I wandered into the middle of a conversation on this board.  I cannot help but respond to those who have autistic relatives.  It is very devastating.  I notice it is a 5 year old.  Hopefully the child will get the early intervention that is required.  If I can be any help, please let me know.  Again, I apologize for the interlude.  Patz

[Anonymous]

Hi again N-Jaded:

Just wondering how close/long your relationship is with his daughter?  Did you raise her, as a step-daughter?  Do you feel like she looks to you as a mother?

These things might influence your decision as to how to proceed with her.  If you feel very close and like her mom because you've spent years raising her as your own, you will want to think of what you would do if she were your own child?   Would you speak with her about this?

If you feel sort of distant, not really like a parent, more like a friend, or less, then your decision will take that into consideration and you will probably not really feel comfortable acting as a mom to her.

In any event, a therapist might be the best thing you can suggest for her because she has stuff from the past and tough stuff now to deal with.  

My thoughts on it.  Glad you are still posting.

GFN

[Anonymous]

Thank-you all for shedding a new light on this.  I have known Jen for only 5 yrs. and she lives quite a distance from us.  She is a very loving child.  And the last thing I would want to do his hurt her anymore. I suppose not raising her I do feel more of a friend to her.  Jaded, I am curious as to why you asked if the child had Arsperger Syndrome?  I have been thinking that since he was 18 months.

[Anonymous]

Hi N-Jaded:

Sounds like she has weathered well.  Even as a friend, you can let her know that you care.  Or simply let her know that you are there to listen, if she ever wants to talk.  You don't have to necessarily give her N info. now.  Maybe later?  

How are you doing N-Jaded?  Are things going any better for you now?
How are you holding up?

GFN

[N-Jaded]

It is still very difficult.  He lives upstairs and I down.  We don't talk anymore.  We are in limbo. We co-exist.  I am scared, very sad, lonely and  mad at times.  Still cry often but now it's not tears of pity for him it is for the life I thought we would share.  My heart can't catch up to mind and I miss him terribly even though he hasn't left.  Does  that make sense?

[Anonymous]

Dear N-Jaded:

Still cry often but now it's not tears of pity for him it is for the life I thought we would share. My heart can't catch up to mind and I miss him terribly even though he hasn't left. Does that make sense?

This makes absolute sense.  You're mourning the losses you didn't have but dreamed you would have.  Those are still losses.  You wanted a happy life together and now....you're not even on the same floor.

This is very sad and you would naturally feel alone.  It does make you feel mad too because you've probably tried very hard to make those dreams come true?

It's scarey to think of what might happen next.  You do seem somewhat separated already, by your living arrangements.  Is it a financial worry to take it a step further?

The reason I ask is because it's like dangling candy (want to say poison candy-but I don't know your husband so how can I say that?) infront of yourself.  Him living a few steps away but unreachable.  You had dreams of a nice life with him and now part of that dream is just hanging there, and your mind tells you, maybe, that you can't have it?  It isn't going to happen?

((((((((((((N-Jaded)))))))))))))

You're doing good.....getting those feelings out.  Able to acknowledge them and express them.  That is good.  You're not closed up and numb.

Can you do something just for you today?  Take a nice long bubble bath, go for a nice walk, go get a movie you've been wanting to see, or a book to read....inbetween grieving.

To give you a break and let you know that you are not giving up on living.
You can make your own life, your own new dreams, your own healthier emotional state but not all in one day.  How about a small thing...just for you?  To help yourself feel something nice or good?

GFN
Your heart is hurt and

[Anonymous]

Got cut off there somehow

Your heart is hurt and your mind is trying to tell you stuff that your heart is not ready to hear.   Eventually, it will catch up.

[Jaded911]

Thank-you all for shedding a new light on this.  I have known Jen for only 5 yrs. and she lives quite a distance from us.  She is a very loving child.  And the last thing I would want to do his hurt her anymore. I suppose not raising her I do feel more of a friend to her.  Jaded, I am curious as to why you asked if the child had Arsperger Syndrome?  I have been thinking that since he was 18 months.

I am a trauma flight nurse.  I pick up on medical details no matter how small they are......this sucks at times cause my mind goes 24/7 diagnosing..lol

Anyways....the main reason I picked up on what you said is because my son was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome.  He always had very strange obsessive behaviors that were there since birth.  Most of his OC behaviors came from sensory malfunctions.  He would not or could never eat off of paper plates....drove him nuts.  He would get goose bumps just thinking about it.  He would throw fits when he was smaller over the feel of certain socks, he chewed obsessively on objects.  There wasnt a pen in my house that wasn't knawed on.  I also noticed that he had repetitive movements.  He would lay down on the floor and put his head on the floor and crawl in circles.  He had anti-social behaviors which made it very difficult for him to fit in.  The only diagnosis we could get was ADHD.

I was shopping one day and overheard this woman talking to another lady.  I stood there as she described her sons behavior and couldnt believe it.  The description she was giving of her son fit my son to a T.  I followed her and asked for the specialist name.  Adam was formally diagnosed and this Doc was wonderful.  He explained how ADHD is associated with Asperger Syndrome and also how this is a form of Autism.  So...bottom line is this.  Most Autistic children has repetitive behaviors which can be misdiagnosed at times as OCD.  When all that is occuring is related to nerve malfunctions which causes repetitive actions...

Shew....long winded on that one....sorry boys and girls.  I just couldnt explain it without the loooong version....eeeek!

[Anonymous]

Jaded:

Yes, welcome to my world of autism.  I understand everything and anything you have been through.  I was fortunate in that I worked in a psychiatric setting in a hospital.  The physician I worked for put me in touch with a specialist by the time my son was 3.  Thank God for that.  The specialist helped me to raise my son, my husband lived in total denial.  It was hard.  Really hard.  There is light at the end of the tunnel inasmuch as the N is deceased. I am making a life for myself and son.  It has not been a bed of roses but at least there is no more chaos. I hope this does not sound cold and like an N.   Patz

[N-Jaded]

(((((((((Jaded & PatZ)))))))))))))

I don't know first hand what  you ladies are going through.  I am a Nurse as well an have taken care of many autistic children and young adults.  I know you have faced many trying as well as many happy times.  May God continue to bless you both through this journey.