Mother in my head

[Samantha!!]

Dear all,

Oh, Boy, why I did not find that thread seven years ago, when I had to deal with all that problems Portia ist dealing now. T hat would have been an enourmous help.

For me now, I kind of forgot about my mother if that if possbible at least as long as I am far far away. She is none of my interest anymore.

My mother could have been a twin of Portias mother. All the same lieing, behaviour, even gotten fat  , did not want me to have children and so on. All the same.

I just pretend and I think and that I have done in my whole life unconsiously, that I have a mother. I had none, never had one. That just the simple truth.

I think that was the cause seven years ago when all that problems with my mother restarted. I did wanted to have a mother and then suddenly, I remembered I had a mother: So well, why not doing the mother and daughter thing. Go shopping together, go into a cinema and so on.

But I forget, she was not my mother. She never was. I am back to that point. I worked to a lot of hurt, but the thing is I do not even feel hurt anymore. She is just a none to me. Faded.

I think the problem for Portias problem and for many is, that we want a loving mother, father and sister or brother in your life. A spouse is easier, we just get another on. But a mother, a father? It is not like we can go put and search for them.

When I was younger I asked my teachers and Professors, if they would like  be to my mother and the response was mostly strange.

So how to get a mother? Like with the rabbit and the hat, where to get here.

Part of not needing a mother anymore, is that other people in my life make that function, my bfriend, other friends but mostly my bfriend. And another part is that I try to be motherly for other people in my life.

Thing is we do not have all in life, the whole sprectrum which the commercials will like to tell us.

So, I do not have a mother, some had no father, at least I had a father. I do not have a brother or a sister. Sometimes I had good friends. Some people are without family at all.

If we let go of that tale that we have to have a loving mother in life, thing will be different. It is not common to have a loving mother. Many just do not have. I see this with many children around. Not every mother loves her children.

So we have to leave and find our luck somewhere else. Why forcing something that does not work? Why we just not move on to other happier and friendlier people?

Every life is special. I am happy for many things in life, even if some made me unhappy. That is the way it is.


I agree very much with GFN.

Blessings to all,

Samantha

[October]

I am  not sure why I have not replied to any of this thread before.  I think I have found it hard to get past the title - too scarey.

Sorry Portia.  

I can relate to many of your thoughts about your mum.  Mine too is like a toddler, and seems to see me as her surrogate mother figure.  She is very demanding of everyone around her, to maintain her inner stability.  If that stability is threatened she reacts with grief, rage, anger; you  name it, whatever will best push the buttons of the people involved.  And whatever she does keeps herself well and truly in the spotlight as the martyr, or the queen, or the little princess; whatever her inner image may be.

One little story.  My daughter was her first grandchild, and when she was born I asked my mum if she wanted to be called 'gran' or 'nana'.  The grandmother on the other side was already called 'nannie' by her other grandchildren, so I thought that was sensible for C to call her, but I wanted mum to choose for herself.  

Her reply was 'well, we will leave it for her (the baby) to choose.'  She wanted to abdicate to a newborn baby the responsibility for giving her a name.

I had to explain to her that it doesn't work like that.  You teach a child what to call a person by using the name for them, until they adopt it for themselves.  She could not/would not choose, though, so I chose for her.  I chose that she would be 'grandma'.  Then, rather bizarrely, when my brother had children, his boys used the name 'nana' instead.  I do not know who chose that, or what that is all about.  But it makes for a lot of confusion, I must say!!  Cousins who have a different name for their grandparent, and nobody ever knows who they are talking about.  

Sorry, got carried away.  What I am trying to say is that when these 'mothers' sit at the centre of a family they affect everyone in it with their own particular disfunction, and that people such as you and I trying to make sense, or find rationality or functioning, will try in vain.

Sorry to not help more before now.  (((((((P))))))))

[Guests with an 'S']

Portia,

Who are you now? Do you exist as a whole or part person outside of, and apart from, your relationship with your mother?

How important is she in your daily life? Does her affect on you hinder your life plans? Have you ever gone through any individuation therapy or individuation process? Did she see you and treat you as an extension of herself, particularly when you were a small child, up to say the age of 8 or 10?

I think that the answer to these questions are very important for you to know. Search "individuation" on the net if the term is unclear. Or perhaps others here may have been through the process at a later stage in life through therapy?

Guests with an 'S'.

[Portia]

GFN:

You're a good person, Portia. You have good qualities. You care about connecting with others and feeling and understanding and sharing.

 I believe this GFN . Thank you for saying those things. The connecting etc, it's hard work.

So then what's left is accepting her for what she is, trying to see what's good in her and embracing that, dealing with her on her level (which sucks because it isn't fair but it's probably the only way to relate with her/connect somewhat  ). You choose to keep her in your life and I bet you will continue to feel better by gaining more and more understanding and doing your best to empathize, while deciding your reactions.

 You said it so well!

Mudpup

If you can figure her out maybe you should become a nuclear physicist.

I’ve heard that rocket science is actually very simple! So maybe…..maybe one day I’ll visit that Cern establishment in Geneva where they keep that mega-huge particle accelerator. I love that! Amazing stuff. And they do tours! I just want to have a look…
Btw I copied your unconditional love post, I appreciated it, I understood it!

Samantha

So we have to leave and find our luck somewhere else. Why forcing something that does not work? Why we just not move on to other happier and friendlier people?

 I’m not looking for a mother elsewhere - after all, I’m not sure exactly what I’d be looking for? My problem was that I was forcing something that didn’t work – for all my life until now. Once I stop forcing my mother idea onto her – bingo – I can accept her for what she is, rather than what she is not. She’s not a big part of my life, so it doesn’t seem to be a problem at the moment. It might be as she gets older, but we’re not there yet. I’ll have to see. Thanks for posting Samantha!

October

I have not replied to any of this thread before. I think I have found it hard to get past the title - too scarey.

 Gosh why October? I meant it in ‘object relations’ type terms – the mother in my head, as opposed to the one who actually lives in the real world. The idea of my mother to me, and the idea that I wanted to change. I can’t change the real her, so I have to change the idea of her I have in my head. Is that scary?

people such as you and I trying to make sense, or find rationality or functioning, will try in vain.

I agree with you. So best to stop trying and concentrate on us! And treat them as the people they really are, rather than what we wish they would be. Being tolerant of them doesn’t diminish us, pretending to go along with their reality while we are with them might make all our lives easier. If we can’t do that, we need to stay away. I know there are some things right now I couldn’t cope with too easily with mine, so I won’t put myself in those situations.

Guest

Do you exist as a whole or part person outside of, and apart from, your relationship with your mother?

Yes. Ab-so-lute-ly!

How important is she in your daily life?

Practically, not at all important. In my head, I think of it as ‘this mother stuff’ meaning all my childhood, but that’s not her. She isn’t actually in my daily life at all. Okay, I’ve had some electronic messages from her recently and I’ve replied, but it didn’t bother me. I reacted like you would do with a small child who wants things (I actually smiled at one ‘demand’ because it was so obviously a small child.) Give them what they want (within reason and my boundaries) and let them carry on exploring the world. But unlike a small child, she doesn’t need my protection so I don’t worry.

Does her affect on you hinder your life plans?

It has done. I don’t know what my plans are now. I have to keep grappling with step-dad’s effect on me a little more. Let myself be allowed to live. Allow myself what I want. I live with someone who has trouble allowing himself stuff too. We're like kids when we do allow ourselves things, like holidays.

Have you ever gone through any individuation therapy or individuation process?

Nope not before. Not at all. Honestly! I did just google the word and yep, that’s what’s happening to me. I can see it happening. I’ve been watching it for a little while, about 2 months? Don’t know. But there’s one occasion in that time when my mouth opened and this completely bland, level statement came out of it, in response to what I would have previously have responded to with a complete defence/attack reply. It would have been full on (and I felt that response but let-it-go). After this statement (“yes, you’re probably right”) came out of my mouth recently, I almost went into pleasurable shock! In-credible, and such a tiny thing, but so much (ball hits 1,000 extra points, side-lights light up, I love pinball).

Did she see you and treat you as an extension of herself, particularly when you were a small child, up to say the age of 8 or 10?

Yes. She still does! But and it’s a big but, I had my grandparents to let me know I was valued and separate. It’s not the same, but it means I’m here and not a complete mess. Also, rather than most of the time treating me as part of her, instead, most of the time: she treated me as nothing, not existing. I think that’s because she pretty well felt she was nothing at the time. She wasn’t very well. She has many times looked at me as though she doesn’t know who I am, and even talked to me in those terms, jokingly. I guess because she doesn’t know who she is? Once at an adult party, my step-brother and I were sitting talking, away from the adults. We were both early teenagers. She looked across at us and said in a condescending way “who are those people over there?” smiling. I guess she suddenly realised I wasn’t her? Oh who cares!

I’m not my mother. Freedom of speech is an important antidote to Voicelessness I think. By talking we find out what we really think and believe. Then we can look at why we think and believe what we do. And that’s fun! Because we can change those things.

Who am I? I still feel sometimes I’m a child in a world full of grown-ups. When that feels ‘wrong’ or ‘bad’ I remind myself who’s telling me that and tell them to shut up.

Thanks for the questions Guest. I haven’t come back to this thread recently because I’ve become much more interested in finding out what step-dad (and Dad) tapes are playing in the background. I don’t believe anything left over from my mother, but I still believe, for example, that if someone values my work (I really dislike the distinction between work and play, work and life), I should be grateful - not thankful, not accepting but grovellingly grateful!! I know rationally that’s off, but emotionally? (Love it – 'me plus an unconscious nuisance disturbing to myself'). Recognising all this rubbish is great though. I can see where the garbage is sticking, so I can start cleaning it off. Chip, chip, rub, rub (I’ll be polishing soon GFN....maybe).

Thank you all for your posts. I couldn’t have done what I have done alone. Obviously

[longtire]

Portia, it does indeed sound as though you are individuating!  Your post here really rings that out.  Congratulations on not reacting to your mother and just responding (rahter than reacting) with a bland statement.  Great Job!

[Serena]

Thank you Bunny,

I deal in images and your images cut through my thoughts like a hot knife through butter. No matter how many times I read “emotional child” it doesn’t work like a picture. Here’s your mother: look, see clearly. I appreciate your first paragraph. It matches what I ‘dare’ to think, what I can cope with. I don’t have reasonable conversations at all. I’m amazed that she still drives. I’m amazed she hasn’t been banned (she’s been stopped by the police a few times). But she still functions, she’s very resilient. She writes, attends women’s groups, finds friends to holiday with, has relationships of sorts etc.

Heck, I knew that about it being her fantasy to get back with my Dad, but to my mind, that was too crazy to voice. I forget that that is my perception, not hers (that the idea is too crazy is my perception…etc). My Dad has been married now for 24 years: that doesn’t affect her fantasy. I have other examples too, of this fantasy in her. (I told her Dad was on holiday somewhere, “who with?” she asked. Very sad on reflection. Very sad.) Thank you for saying it out loud bunny, it makes it all true.

As for what her problems are, they sure are many. I talk to two people about her, H when he doesn’t mind and tiny bits to my step-mother. (This is a trade-off, step-mother talks to me about Dad and she has to, I understand her situation too well and though it sounds dodgy in boundary senses, she’s pretty healthy.) <Shock, roll eyes, put that on hold.> Very recently I told step-mother “I think with just a nudge in one direction or another, she could well be {in need of in-patient care}.” Step-mother isn’t surprised by anything. I wondered about the accuracy of what I’d said afterwards, and decided it was accurate to me. It depends what I mean by “nudge”. I worry about her and the external real world. I wondered if her GP would talk to me. She’s been prescribed so many different things over the years, from the old valium type stuff to the new SSRIs. That practice must have a clue (I don’t expect much from doctors). If/when the need arises, I’ll find out I guess. It would be good to know now, both for me for myself, and for me for her in the future. I’d know what was likely/unlikely in terms of her behaviour. But that’s getting too close for me and it’s not necessary right now. As far as I know. But I’d like to be prepared. I have thought about this a lot, while I’ve been here. I can’t square it while she is still functioning, I can’t get involved. While she’s okay, it’s still only my stuff. My thinking is muddled here isn’t it? It seems so.

I don't think your thinking is at all muddled.

My N mother was granted a Catholic annullment back in the late '70's - in other words, to all who knew her, she was the 'wronged' wife and 'epitome' of a good mother.  My father has been with his partner (now wife) since 1972 and only last year were my parents finally 'legally' divorced.  My mother did this to trap, ensnare, taunt, torment and abuse him, just because he had the 'temerity' to leave her (I don't know why he stayed so long).........  A week after the 'divorce' she had a massive stroke.  My belief is that she finally realised she had lost control over him and she literally 'burst'.  There was no other receptacle to pour her hate into (apart from her four daughters, but we are used to her).

She's 78 now, still a viscious old b***h and all I can liken her to is a cardboard cutout of what a mother should be.  I believe now I never had a 'Mother' - my simple definition of which would be - a harbour in a storm.  Not her, she WAS the storm.

Sorry to vent.

[October]

I believe now I never had a 'Mother' - my simple definition of which would be - a harbour in a storm.  Not her, she WAS the storm.

This is such a powerful image, and so true for me too.  Thank you.  

[Portia]

Longtire:

Portia, it does indeed sound as though you are individuating! Your post here really rings that out. Congratulations on not reacting to your mother and just responding (rahter than reacting) with a bland statement. Great Job!

Thanks Longtire  for confirming, I do appreciate it. Feedback is so important! It wasn’t my mother re: the bland statement. It was in response to a rather rare retort from my partner. With mother I’ve tended to say what you’d say to a ‘normal’ person. E.g. she would ask me something (why? how? etc) and I’d tell her without regard for any limited capability. Inside I’d get upset, but wouldn’t show it (as ever). Now I can and have responded to her as she is (supplying a different kind of information) but importantly: I don’t get upset.

With my partner recently I recognised that he was reacting (with his unconscious I guess) and I didn’t have to escalate it just because I, in turn, *felt* criticised. I’ve started listening to what I might perceive as criticism and processing that, plus any associated emotion, before responding. And once you start doing that, I guess it gets easier. So simple and yet such a trudge getting to that point! Thanks Longtire.

Serena:

My belief is that she finally realised she had lost control over him and she literally 'burst'. There was no other receptacle to pour her hate into

That sounds like a sensible belief to me, people do have heart attacks/strokes for just those reasons I guess. That’s why I realised I couldn’t carry on being angry – chest pains!

Not her, she WAS the storm

I hope the ‘was’ means you don’t have much at all to do with her? She sounds like a storm alright, in a teacup, sloshing over the sides in an attempt to get noticed. Does she still sweep over you in everyday life? Sorry if you’ve talked about this and I missed it, or forgotten …but if you want to talk more, be my guest, vent away, I doubt we’ll run out of room?  take care Serena

[October]

I have not replied to any of this thread before. I think I have found it hard to get past the title - too scarey.

 Gosh why October? I meant it in ‘object relations’ type terms – the mother in my head, as opposed to the one who actually lives in the real world. The idea of my mother to me, and the idea that I wanted to change. I can’t change the real her, so I have to change the idea of her I have in my head. Is that scary?

It is scary because - I have to use different language.  In Biblical terms, I would say that the demon by which I am possessed is my Nmum demon, and that its aim is to destroy me.  In modern terms, none of that is literally true, but the essence of it is true.  The demon hates me, is jealous of me, and wants me dead.  It wants this so that it can have my daughter for itself, and be the mum instead, rather than the grandmother.  It has no idea how to be a grandmother, just as it had no idea how to be a mother, but it resents that I stand like a bloody great mountain    in the way of absolute power over C, and it doesn't like that.

people such as you and I trying to make sense, or find rationality or functioning, will try in vain.

I agree with you. So best to stop trying and concentrate on us! And treat them as the people they really are, rather than what we wish they would be. [/quote]

I find it easier to deal with the 3D mum than the one in my head.  That is what is the hardest of all.  I may never get rid of it.  However, I can limit its power, bit by bit.  Maybe.     If I am honest, it has more control over me than I do, in terms of generating fears and withdrawal behaviours.  Without the demon(s) 'I' am sociable, friendly and afraid of nothing.  Even with it I remain a more responsible, mature adult than my 3D mum will ever be.  But still not the person that I was meant to be.

[Samantha!!]

Hm. reading all this, it gave me some ideas. I just wrote a letter to friend with what my mother all did to me and how my father denied it.

I recognized, it helps to undo the things my Nmother did not do when I was a child. I am wearing a brace since four years and my teeth are lokking great. As a child teeth full of holes, because my mother did not care. The good thing is we loose the first teeth.

I am will start to learn French, because in School my mother did not care..and so on. The more I undo these things, the better I feel.

I feel less helpless, because now I have an influence on things I want in life and I now longer need someone who has the ideas.

I know that I have to separate completely from my parents to get on in my life. To heal and to make things undone. That is not very easy.

Oh, I think something more, people do accept this abusive behavious often and By accepting the behaviour it seems acceptable which it is not.

Samantha

[Serena]

I believe now I never had a 'Mother' - my simple definition of which would be - a harbour in a storm.  Not her, she WAS the storm.

This is such a powerful image, and so true for me too.  Thank you.  

She hasn't spoken to me since Christmas - her loss.  I've always found living in a different country very helpful!!!