"Bad Boys"

[mum]

I noticed some talk about those "bad boys" women can find so attractive on another thread and thought it might become it's own thread as it seems universal.  

This "bad boy" thing seems to be an active discussion with women I know.  Brigid, this was originally in response to something you wrote, and I though my own story might be of help.

 I left the "nice guy friend" type man 24 years ago because I though I felt too safe, too loved, that it was "boring" even.
I went looking for "edgy" and boy, I got it!!  But that's all the edgy guys are, sharp, painful edges, protecting an unrealized, empty self...nothing else (IMO...later realizations of course).  

After extensive therapy, and hard work, I found that "edgy" was another way of describing men who validated my own poor self concept and belief system and lack of self love.

When I started to change a few years ago, that "too nice" man of 24 years ago miraculously came back into my life (mind you, we live 2000+ miles apart and didn't speak for 22 years).  We both had moved on and had families, divorces, etc.
He saw and loved the genuine me...the one I felt (unconsiously) didn't deserve that kind of devotion.

I was so surprised to find that the "excitement" I thought only came in a relationship with an egomaniac "bad boy", was not only there, but in a strangely fulfilling way.  Because my memory of him was of safety and calm, I honestly either forgot, or finally realized, why we had been together for four years in the first place so long ago.  A sharp wit, physically attractiveness, assertiveness....all things I imagined were lost in the kindness, caring and egolessness of this incredible soul.  
I don't think he changed so much as I changed.  He was always those things, but I lacked the faith and vision and maturity to recognize that in my youth... plus, I didn't believe I deserved that whole package of love.
Thank God I know better, now. (and speaking of destiny....I had to have those incredible kids, and he had to have his!)

If I had not met him again, I know I would  be happy alone, or with some other deeply "good" person.  I did not identify, consiously,  that this is the person or type of person I wanted to be with.  I simply healed....and expected more from my life, and it was delivered to me.

I was surprised recently, that a friend of mine identified him as having those (what she finds) attractive "bad boy" characteristics.  HA!  Because he is quietly steady and strong, and has none of the "dangerous/ edgy stuff" the guys she chooses seem to have, we both found that funny....but maybe she just thought he was "cute" and imagined she knew him.

[bunny]

Bad boys are attractive because they bring out a woman's maternal instinct. We want to mother and fix them. And they are exciting and we want to tame them. It's a good idea not to buy into the fantasy and see the person as they truly are: a loser. Hopefully with maturity, a woman will start losing interest in this type and gravitate toward men of integrity.

bunny

[Stormchild]

Tupelo Honey      (Van Morrison)
(edited for a woman to sing)

You can take all the tea in China
Put it in a big brown bag for me,
Sail around all the seven oceans
Drop it straight into the deep blue sea - 'cause
He's as sweet as Tupelo honey,
He's an angel of the first degree.
He's as sweet as Tupelo honey
Just like honey from the bee

You can't stop them on the road to freedom
You can't stop them 'cause their eyes can see
Men with insight, men of granite
Knights in armor bent on chivalry.
He's as sweet as Tupelo honey,
He's an angel of the first degree
He's as sweet as Tupelo honey
Just like honey from the bee.

[write]

It's a good idea not to buy into the fantasy and see the person as they truly are:


Defining the Problem

I can't forgive you. Even if I could
You wouldn't pardon me for seeing through you.
And yet I can't quite cure myself of love
For what I thought you were before I knew you.

[Brigid]

Hi All,

It is so amazing that as I was outside mowing the lawn I was thinking about starting a post on this very subject and shazaamm I come inside and its already up and running.  Great minds think alike, I guess.

I agree with each post so far to the max.  Mum, reading your story of you and your fiance gives me such warmth and hope.  I know I must rewire my brain so that those wonderful, gentle, kind men that I have looked to as father figures, can now be considered potential mates.

These are the things my T and I are working on now and we will work together to heal the damage and the longing in my soul for both a father figure and a loving companion.  

Bunny, you are so right that we want to mother those bad boys, reign them in, tame them and imagine that we will change them into nice guys.  Too bad, so sad--ain't gonna happen.

I can't tell you how many times I told my son when he was in high school and the girls kept rejecting him and breaking his heart because he was such a nice guy and they all wanted the bad boys, (and he is so adorable, if I do say so myself) to not turn to the dark side.  Stay nice, sweet and kind and eventually the girls will mature to the point where they can appreciate how wonderful it is to have a good guy.  He does have a lovely girlfriend now who appreciates him and vice versa.  Too bad his mother can't take her own advice.      

Thank you for starting this thread, Mum.  You continue to be my inspiration.

Brigid

[2cents]

Great thread!

I think the whole attraction to bad boys has many sides. Girls want excitement, and breaking rules is exciting, or can seem so for a while. Also, I think it's definitely a case of learning and appreciating one's real core value - that you deserve to be truly loved. Most people are too insecure to believe that in early relationships - plenty of men fall for bad girls too!

Obviously there must be something women are looking for or they wouldn't allow themselves to settle for these kinds of relationships. Maybe one of the most confusing aspect of any relationship is the fact that most people do "seem" to have some good in them: perhaps as women we are trained/conditioned to look for that whilst overlooking other more alarming signs, like "This person is not going to love ME but is gonna expect me to love HIM."

Fathers and brothers play a huge role in how we look at men IMO. I know when I was a little kid (5/6) I idolised my oldest brother, and even when he came home on vacation I was telling everyone how I was gonna marry him! (My third brother explained to me why this was not possible... )And I've heard similar stories from other women about their brothers.

So if we get lousy tapes about men and relationships from our upbringing (like men are not caring/ relationships are not lasting) well, we tend to play these things out. These "bad boys" are also playing things out, and we no doubt respond to that too because we know how s**t it was not to get what we needed

Hope this post makes a little sense!

2cents

[Brigid]

I had a lightbulb moment a while ago and realized that the reason I have always loved my male English Setters (I bred and showed them for 20 years) is because they are sweet, dumb, loyal to a fault, always want to please, willing to give lots of kisses, and will be content for hours with their head in your lap.

Now if I could just find a human English Setter, life would be grand.    

2 cents,
Pardon me for saying this, but through all our discourse, I had in my mind for whatever reason that you were male.  You never really gave away your gender in any of your posts (at least not the ones I read) and I was so surprised to read the one you just wrote.  

It matters not a witt, but it just caught me by surprise.  I agree with what you said, btw, and know that my father and brother play a big role in my opinion, reaction to and relationship with men.

Brigid

[mum]

I had several conversations with my T about this, too.  I was wondering , since my own father was awesome, respectful of my mother, etc etc., why I would have chosen such N's to marry....
She said people who have had parents with "perfect" marriages, are many times ill equipped to handle relationships, thinking all will be like that, never having seen conflict and it's subsequent resolution.  My parents had conflict to be sure, but made efforts to not allow the children to be part of it....and with so many kids, conflict of any kind was a no no, actually.  So to learn about it, perhaps I needed to choose someone rather awful to conflict with.  Just a thought.

[Mati]

Brigid

Are you really sure you want a dumb mate?? I have this weakness for really intelligent guys. Got me into real trouble last time   . What about the guys who act as though they are sweet and good but then they unmask and they are not? When we find they arer really bad guys are we happier then? I think not. Me anyway.

[2cents]

Brigid,

I'm the only girl in a large and fragmented family. Mum passed away a long time ago, and so did my grandparents. I've always been something of an androgene (sp?), and I tend to "see" things from a somewhat masculine point of view. I also tend to get on better with men than with women.

Funny thing is, I look for the feminine in men, and I have found it in some truly surprising combo's! Bottom line, I think everyone needs to be nurtured and I didn't get a whole lotta nurturing while I was growing up, although I did idolise my older brothers, but they literally weren't there a lot of the time

What I got out of growing up is that men are distant and abitrary and women are frightening and powerful. Don't get me wrong - my father was also frightening to me cause he had the power to decide some pretty important things, like whether women should work (in the case of my mother the answer was NO.) After my mother died everything fell apart, and the message there was men can't hold families together/ won't try to.

So, to try to get back to the original topic, the tapes that we get given are vital, because they are so deeply ingrained. They can be changed IMO but only with a lot of conscious hard work and HELP. I'm gonna be looking for a therapist again soon because I feel that now I might be more ready/ able to start doing the work of actually bringing my tapes to the surface and addressing the real issues at play. I sure hope so anyway .

Sorry for the ramble,

2cents

[Brigid]

Mati,

Brigid

Are you really sure you want a dumb mate??

No, I do not.  My comments were obviously made tongue in cheek for the most part.  Intelligence is critically important to me.  So is a good sense of humor.

Obviously, my H had me fooled for a really long time (not only me, but virtually everyone else, too), so I have great fear of that mask coming off.  But I think that the work I am doing in therapy now, which is solely concentrating on me and the damage within, should help to improve my ability to see through those masks.  I guess only time and experience will tell.

Just in case anyone is interested, I saw that there is a new website where people who have been in relationships with cheaters, can post their stories so that future potential relationships with the cheater can be forewarned.  It is called cheaternews.com.  I visited the site and it is done state by state (my state was not shown, however and didn't see a way to add it) and you can only post the name, city and state and whatever story you want to tell.  Interesting concept and one more way to check out a new love interest.

How many of you are attracted to the Bad Boys of Hollywood?  I personally prefer the nicer guys--am totally in love with Hugh Jackman who seems to have his values in all the right places, and I regularly have dreams about being in a relationship with Tom Selleck (always in a white dinner jacket     ).  I just had one last night, in fact, so woke up with a smile on my face.     One must find pleasure where one can.

Hugs,

Brigid

[Anonymous]

Hi Brigid,

I like the bad guys and the good guys. Johnny Depp....Alfred Molina...Benezio del Toro...Jackie Chan...Daniel Day-Lewis....Tim Roth...John Wayne...oh, now I'm getting into the deceased ones, better stop.

bunny

[d'smom]

How many of you are attracted to the Bad Boys of Hollywood?  I personally prefer the nicer guys--am totally in love with Hugh Jackman who seems to have his values in all the right places, and I regularly have dreams about being in a relationship with Tom Selleck (always in a white dinner jacket     ).  I just had one last night, in fact, so woke up with a smile on my face.     One must find pleasure where one can.

oh my god, i hope this gives someone a laugh, ive been watching this thread cause im a sucker for bad boyz in a big big way...... not mean boys, but baaaaaaad  boys....... (theres a difference. i dont like mean boys. i like baaaaaad boys)  i couldnt help replying becuause just last night i dreamed that i married SIMON COWELL!!!! what the hell is that????? i dont even think hes all that cute! (and he comes off as fairly mean, too)  in this dream i married  him on a dare at a party. we didnt love each other and all i could think about in the dream was how to get divorced quick. im stil mystified over that one.

who do i think is cute in hollywood.. sean connery.. harrison ford.  yes, hugh jackman. the adventurous types.  me and my daughter both have a massive crush on a guy named alan rickman who is in the harry potter movies.  if you want to see a gorgeous guy google 'alan rickman'.  the interesting thing is he is famous for playing evil characters, but in reality hes very nice. the dichotomy of my life???

i know that the 'tapes' i got from my father made me attracted to dark, brilliant, complicated, emotionally distant, self absorbed, difficult, types of men.  but my brother saved me, becase the 'tapes' i got from him somehow mean that im able to have friend relationships also.  

after a few early mistakes, (which were  doozies) i tend to pick love relatonships that end up being friends for life.

my dream guy is a dark, brilliant, complex, deep, person who is emotionally available and not afraid of himself.  cant wait til he shows up! i do think its possible to be adventurous, like to have fun, not be insanely dull, but still be a nice person with good values.

[FlowerGirl]

Wow! I have to say, this is a fun thread.  

All this time, I thought I fell for the ... the polar opposite of bad boy... because I grew up in such an aggressive family.  I guess that can't be the only reason - I guess I just like the wimps!  (well, okay, the very nice boys... )  

Ahh, well. I guess someone had to fall for niles.....

--FG

[mum]

Okay, I get the Alan Rickman thing.  I wouldn't say he is georgeous however...attractive, though.  (different aesthetic for me).
He was wonderfully confused in "Love Actually" wasn't he?

The thing about the bad boy is funny....my second husband was flashy/attractive and very public/popular "bad boy" artist in our city.  Unfortunately, his exterior persona, or stage presence, is all there is.  He sure looked like the whole package, knew all the right things to say to NOT sound like my first (a****le ex)....but he WAS only skin deep (the rest was an alcohol saturated vacuum).