Child of NPD parent -50 years on.

[jophil28]

I am the eldest of four children. My father was always "strict" ( his description) . He was an Army Lieutenant and saw civilian life as an extension of Army life with all its structure and rigidity.
My mother was a rather weak,self-limiting and dependent person who avoided all the tough stuff. Her parenting was largely confined to sewing and cooking and so on. She had a nervous breakdown when I was 4 years old and I was farmed out to my Aunt for about four months while she recovered.
I am not sure what definition to apply to my parents or their parenting style. However it is evident that all us adult childrem have significant problem in living. I am a recovered alcoholic ( 14 years sober) with a tendency towards addictive practises, my brother has Bipolar disorder and the other is extremely dependent on his wife who has affairs. I have been married and divorced three times. The marriages last about one year on average.

I have a strong need to "name" my parents pathology and then in turn to identify mine. My counselor is avoiding calling it. Here are some of the things that happened to me regularly during childhood. Maybe some of you can offer some insight.

My father created an atmosphere of fear and disapproval. I felt constantly under surveillance and my behavior was critically appraised and "corrected" on an hourly basis.
He regarded himself as a grand and mighty person who had an unquestionable "right" to control us with sneers, subtle insults, humiliation and a kind of overbearing control. He saw his place as a disciplinarian and resorted to psychological pressure to ensure that we conformed and obeyed without question.
He ridiculed our feelings, thoughts, desires and dreams and insisted that we adopt HIS ideas only and abandon our own.
He openly said that children are not entitled to any thoughts and feelings of their own and it is a sign of immaturity for children to have these things.
He forced us to take on HIS thoughts, dreams and hopes..
Mild rebellion was punished with severe consequences - we never knew when the ax would fall, but we knew that it surely would.
I endlessly felt uneasy and on edge. I came to believe that HE would crush me or abandon me if I stepped out of line. I never felt relaxed at home - always on edge waiting for the next 'strike'.
My mother just said little about this except when sometimes when the yelling got so loud that she feared that the neighbors might hear.
He always pushed us to strive and achieve, but when the 'prize' came near for all  our efforts he found a way of keeping it from us. He then pushed us harder - enough was never good enough. No rest no peace.
I never felt that I never 'owned'anything.  I grew up believing that I was at the mercy of his needs, and my rewards werein the hands of others.
He constantly undermined our attempts at independence and tried to regulate and control every aspect our our lives.
When I was 14-15 years old I started to rebel, as teens do. My parents were convinced that I was 'wrong' and sent me for blood tests and then to a psychiatrist. He assessed me over a six week period and then asked to see my Father. I was never told the outcome. The visits just stopped.
I could go on and on but I guess that this picture is enough for now - I am disturbed depressed just writing this.

Anyone have any comments???

[mudpuppy]

Hi Jophil,

Well, I have a few questions.
Are your parents still alive?
If so do you have any contact with them?
How do you function now? Do you have friends and a social life or are you so effected that you are having a hard time functioning?
Did you marry men similar to your father?

Your father was a jerk, thats for sure. I don't know if you've looked at the criteria for NPD but they might give you an idea of whether he was NPD or not. Your mother sounds like the typical codependent spouse who is there to serve the pathology.

Sorry you had such an overbearing creep, and sorry it has effected you so much.
I hope you keep posting here and give people here a chance to respond to you.
((((((Jophil)))))

mudpup

[jophil]

Thanks Mudpuppy, I am a male by the way .My mother is still alive. My father died in 1993.
I was living in another town,60 miles north, when he died. I recall going to the hospital when he was dying and sitting next to his bed (he was in a coma) I had to make a huge effort to touch him and just grasped the end of one of his limp fingers - that creeped me out. I went home that night and I got a call at midnight from by brother that he had died. All I thought of was "What a nuisance -I have to go to a funeral now". I saw it as an inconvenience . No grief, no compassion, no tears.
I have a regular "falling out" with my mother. She has become as callous,selfish and controlling as my father..We argue about most every tiny thing - trivia.

I have looked at the NPD criteria and most fits my dad. However,what now?
I have a haunting underlying fear that if I achieve/acquire anything of value or significance that some evil force will take it away in some malevolent act of spite, or display of power .Consequently I have a "small" life which seems to be designed that way so that the evil force may not notice it and wreck it. Not a fun way to live !

I have married either controlling or flimsy women and these failed quickly as you could imagine.
I do not know what to do next - I feel despondent and confused - Prozac?
 

yt father

[Bliz]

A lot of similarities with my parental history except it was my Mother.  Sounds like a narcissist.  You might want to try looking up that definition and doing some research there.

[Anonymous]

Welcome Jophil.

My father created an atmosphere of fear and disapproval. I felt constantly under surveillance and my behavior was critically appraised and "corrected" on an hourly basis.
He regarded himself as a grand and mighty person who had an unquestionable "right" to control us with sneers, subtle insults, humiliation and a kind of overbearing control. He saw his place as a disciplinarian and resorted to psychological pressure to ensure that we conformed and obeyed without question.

What you describe here is what my children experience with their N Dad.
Anything that brings them joy N Dad is sure to squash.  As I posted in my thread *Growing Fear* N Dad tells my daughter that he knows everything she's thinking in her mind and referred to himself as a "fly on the wall".  

He's completely controlling and treats them in a contemptuous manner.

Your Dad sounds like he was really messed up.  Boy, is that the understatement of the year.  

I am very sorry that your Mom chose to do nothing to help ease or help you and your siblings escape from his madness.  

Sorry for your pain.

Mia

[Brigid]

Jophil,
Welcome to this site.  From your description, I would say that your father was an N, but there could have been other things going on as well.  I am very sorry for the life you had to lead as a child.  

I was raised by what I now believe was an N father (he passed away 6 years ago, so no diagnosis is possible), with many of the same traits you describe.  He wasn't as bad as yours, but there was a total lack of love or caring and constant criticism.  He was also an alcoholic.  My mother also was weak and just enabled the situation.

I am 54, have been married twice and both men were n's of completely different personalities.  The first time, I married my father and the second time I married what I thought was the opposite.  The second marriage lasted 22 years and we have 2 children.  I thought he was a great guy and he turned out to be a lying, cheating, sex addict, but did a really good job of hiding it.  My point is, that because of the negative tapes which have run in my head for my whole life, choosing a healthy life partner was not possible.  I have forever been in search of a man who loves me and so far have come up empty.

I have one brother who is 10 years younger who has never married, has no friends and lives in total isolation except to go to work.  He and I have no relationship with each other either.

I am in therapy and it is helping a great deal.  As painful as the loss of my second marriage was, the root of my pain and willingness to settle for loveless relationships, is my father.  I hope that with the help of my wonderful therapist, I can learn to love myself and eventually find a fullfilling and lasting relationship.

I wish you well.

Brigid

[bunny]

Welcome jophil,

My comment is, when you were a teen you were sent to a psychiatrist who did not directly tell you anything. He asked to speak to your father. For all you knew, it was to betray you. It sounds like he actually tried to protect you. But he didn't say! So we have one shrink who confused you. Fast forward to the present. Now there is a counselor who avoids calling a spade a spade. Why??? So, you see, I think the problem is lack of validation and reality testing by this counselor. Your father was clearly pathological. Someone has to be honest about it for once, and let you start living. What is going on with this counselor?? That is my question.

bunny

[mum]

Jophil: you are not alone with this.  I say this not to diminish your individuality or to invalidate your very real pain. I say this because I have found such support on this board, form realizing I am not alone.  Mia and I have the same ex (I swear, Mia, it's so scary!) and Brigid and I have married and divorced two N's each (of varying Ntypes) and many of us have children to be concerned with and on and on....so it helps me feel less alone to share here.

The father you describe sounds horribly like my ex's (father of my children) own father...right down to the military stuff and the wimp/codependant mother, who is now a wreck after his death.
My children a product of this dysfunction as a father....and he is determined to parent just this same way, right down to "hiring" a co-abuser/co-dependant (his current wife).

I really am so sorry for your pain, but you are seeing it and not running from it and that is huge!!
It occured to me, in reading your post, that "naming" this personality (of my ex) has helped me tremendously.  It was my own therapist who did this.  And putting a name on this put me on a road to healing.  I don't understand why your therapist is such a wimp about naming things.  
I, personally, hate labels....I hesitate to label anyone, however, this particular thing/disorder, would only be hidden still from me, or still be so hard to learn from and get away from if I had not found that it has a name....  And besides, I see labeling as somehow losing identity and protection....and why on earth would I still be protecting my ex after the unbelievable stuff he has done to me and our children?

I am currently reading the book: "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck.  In it he talks about "naming" and what he does is to go as far as NAME malignant narcissism as EVIL.  He makes no excuses for doing that and my understanding is that he took a lot of flack for it.  But in the case studies he describes as examples (with adolescent "identified patients") so eerily describe my ex and what he does to our children, that it is shocking, yet somehow validating for me.

That you are here, looking for answers, reaching out to find information,  describes a person who IS NOT DOOMED in life.  A person who has identified his pain, and is seeking to learn from it.  THIS is why you will heal.  Keep going.  Keep exploring why things feel this way to you, and you will find the answers.  The life you deserve awaits.  Fantastic.

By the way, the N's NEVER seek to find out what their misery (which is what they always feel) has to tell them.  Never.  It's toooo deep and tooo hard and they are the biggest cowards of the human race.
YOU are brave, my friend!
MUM

[Brigid]

I would like to add, that I completely agree with what mum has said regarding the naming of the disorder.  If my T has not identified my XH as an N, I would not have nearly the understanding of how my life has unfolded.  Since my T started explaining the N personality and I have done some of my own research and eventually ended up on this site, I was able to stop thinking I had entered the twilight zone and was able to see the reality of the situation.  I was also able to stop blaming myself for the demise of the marriage and realize that it had always been doomed (barring my H actually seeking help) and it was only a matter of time before the wheels came off.

I think it is terribly wrong of your counselor to not be willing to identify the personality of your father and hence the affect that would have had on you and your brothers.  It is also a roadblock for you to healing IMO.  There is a great deal of power to be gained from understanding what you were up against and as a child you were powerless to fight it.  Perhaps finding a new therapist is something to consider.

Brigid

[jophil]

Thanks to you all - you DO understand!
My T says" I am not in favor of labelling people or categorizing them"
I disagreed and I said so. I also said to her that unless I get a definitive diagnosis of my parents pathology, and mine too, I will change therapists.
She stared to mumble some psycho-gibberish. I asked her for a written assessment via mail. She looked at me all bug -eyed as if I was some Nazi. I am still waiting for the postman.

My father was an evil man who presided over a house of horror. There was a little physical abuse, but for the most part he created an atmosphere of fear and subtle intimidation thru control and sneering and belittling.
Sometimes he would cook the meals if my Mom was ill.
I recall one breakfasttime when I asked for more eggs.He replied "You have had enough food. A boy like you only needs a small amount. Don't be greedy" .. Always in control !
I decided to learn to play the guitar when I was about 12 and saved my money to by a student guitar and an instruction book. I practised for about a year and one day he came into my room and said," The guitar is not a good instrument,you should have chosen the violin" .         Always interfering .
After I graduated high school, I applied to a large mining company for a position as a trainee engineer. I recall attending two interviews ( getting there on the bus) and was eventually offered a job which meant that I would have had all my college fees paid by the company -however, the job was in another city 600 miles away. I was so excited. I was enrolled in university AND I had a real job paying real money -
However, because I was under 21 years old, my parents had to sign their agreement to this arrangement. My father refused and gave me no explanation apart from some feeble crap like" We think that you are too young" . I cried like a little kid.
He then 'organised' a job for me at a local TV station. where a golfing buddy of his worked who 'kept an eye on me' and reported back to my father.  
The more I write about this stuff the madder I get.

[mum as guest]

Well, I'm getting madder right there along with you!!!  It hits home, as this is exactly the kind of thing my ex is trying to do to our son! I am so appalled about what your father did to you!  What a monster!  He may not have abused your body but he certainly tried to kill your spirit!!

Anyway....go ahead and get mad.  You should be.  Just don't stay there too long....I suspect it will feel worse....
Bless you.

[Anonymous]

Jophil, Your therapist cannot make a diagnosis of people she's never met. She's not allowed to. Even if theoretically she diagnosed them, you aren't entitled to her diagnosis. With that said, she could have the decency to validate your experience of this monster.

bunny

[jophil]

Thanks to all of you so far - I have gotten more acknowledgement and validation  from you guys that from all those therapists in the past twenty five years . I feel less powerless now , somehow ---- Jophil

[Karin guest]

Jophil,
It was very interesting to read this:

My T says" I am not in favor of labelling people or categorizing them"

as I had the exact same experience with a therapist where I live in Oz, right down to the 'mumbling psycho-gibberish' when I pressed her as to why she wouldn't label. This happened when I went back to her to get her opinion about what I had discovered about narcissism about 6 months after my NH and I separated. I never went back.
She was my and my exNH's counsellor (we saw her separately and together) and there was an arrangement that it was OK for her to discuss with us each other's issues if needed.
Don't know what's going on here, maybe there's some Oz directive to therapists to not diagnose???

[jophil]

Karin, Most of the therapists that I have seen remind me of those little wind-up toy dogs which nod over and over but never bark !
Therapists in Australia are a benign, overly detached bunch who rarely say anything confrontive or controversial. They seem to have an inflated view of their own importance and regard their skills and knowledge as 'gifts' to be dispensed to the client at the moments of their choosing.
A rather sorry state if you ask me ..