Falling out with friends

[October]

Hi October....  I don't think you behaved badly... you just enforced your boundaries.  You took care of yourself.

Thank you.  I am trying to believe this myself.  Not easy.  

[Anonymous]

Hi October.

Sorry your feeling down right now and I'm sorry that your friends aren't perceptive enough to treat you with kid gloves during difficult times.

I hope that your girlfriend is truly sorry and that her future actions/behavior towards you reflect that.  We all screw up from time to time...some more than others.  Next time she acts up just tell her...Look, I'm feeling particularly bad and don't need to hear all the financial crap.  If you don't stop I'll be hanging up momentarily.  I don't wish to be tortured with this as I have so much going on right now.

I'm praying that she's wised up this time.  

Best wishes.
Mia

[Anonymous]

I am the least materialistic person on the planet and can't stand when people talk about their acquisitions.

Wow.  How fantastic to meet the least materialistic person on the planet.  I am truly honoured.  I doubt if I would even make the top billion least materialistic people, given my attachment to my telly, fridge, video player and DVD, computer, not to mention hot and cold water and a supermarket less than 2 miles away.    And I would love to buy another telly, for my bedroom, if I could.  I won't deny that.  Or a CD player, because I don't have one of my own.  (I borrow C's.)

I don't mind people telling me what they have, or even what they have bought.  I mind them telling me what they have paid for it, as if it matters.  It relates to knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I don't have a CD player either but I play them either in my computer or in my DVD?

[Brigid]

October,
I'm sorry for your very insensitive friends at a time when you really need them to be supportive.  If you are like me, you expect friends to treat you as you hope you are treating them (or would if they were having a difficult time).  It is how you find out who your true friends are IMO.

I'm glad to hear that you and C are taking a little holiday.  I hope you have a wonderful time together.  How is her health BTW?

Blessings,

Brigid

[October]

I'm glad to hear that you and C are taking a little holiday.  I hope you have a wonderful time together.  How is her health BTW?

Blessings,

Brigid

She is doing well.  The tummy pain is gradually receding, but it is very slow.  Meanwhile, her height and weight are now on the same centiles, whereas a year ago her height was several points below the weight, which might mean nothing, or might mean that she is growing as she should now, and that the coeliac condition was having a slight slowing effect on her height, which is what often happens.  So it looks as if we are on the right lines.  Thank you for asking.    

She is still not back at school, and I think it will take some months more to achieve that, but she visits twice a week with her tutor, which is a major improvement from my point of view.  

Holiday not yet confirmed.  C wants to go visit my aunt, and we rang this morning to sort out a date, and are awaiting a phone call back.  If not, we can perhaps go to the caravan instead.  I think we need to go somewhere.  

[October]

I hope that your girlfriend is truly sorry and that her future actions/behavior towards you reflect that.  We all screw up from time to time...some more than others.  Next time she acts up just tell her...Look, I'm feeling particularly bad and don't need to hear all the financial crap.  If you don't stop I'll be hanging up momentarily.  I don't wish to be tortured with this as I have so much going on right now.

Thanks, Mia.  I really appreciate your concern.  B phoned this afternoon, which was a bit annoying as I needed not to talk to her yet.  I felt it was really up to me to initiate contact now.   I only answered the phone because I thought it would be my aunt calling about our visit to her.

B was very sorry, and very apologetic, but would you believe wanted to offer me money every month until things are straight.    Needless to say, I said no, very firmly.  I said we have enough, thank you.  The issue is not to keep looking for more and more, because nobody can ever reach that point.  The issue is to understand what enough means, and we have enough.  I would not take money from a friend, because that would change the dynamic of the relationship completely.  Also, there is a saying that every gift has its price, and I am not for sale.  

I told her she has issues relating to spending money, and to having to have everything new around her all the time.  She agreed with that comment.  I said that perhaps I also would like everything new all around me, and that is not an option, so it is very hard for me to listen to her rationalising relandscaping her garden just because part of her needs it to be new, or buying her daughter a new bed, when the one she has is perfectly serviceable and not 5 years old, or a new car because the one she has needs an mot.

Anyway, she got called away, which was good for me, because it was too soon for me to discuss these things with her.  She has promised to try to get to know me, and what I need, a little better, so that looks positive.

Meanwhile, I am looking out for those wonderful people passing me by.    (Present company excepted, of course.)

[longtire]

October, it sounds like you believe you over reacted a bit in setting your boundaries.  Maybe you did.  So?  Keep setting your boundaries and trusting that you can do it and it will get easier each time.  Maybe you need to set boundaries strongly right now to wake up your "friends" and really get their attention.  This is a change from you, yes?  It may take some time for your friends to adjust.  It does seem like a good sign that B realizes there is more to you than she thought and wants to really get to know you.  She may not ever be able to understand that money is just money, not love, control, safety, or anything else.  Can you still be her friend knowing that?  It she respects your boundaries around money?

(((((((October))))))))

P.S. Keep talking here while your T is gone.  It isn't the same thing, but maybe it is good enough for a week or two.

[October]

P.S. Keep talking here while your T is gone.  It isn't the same thing, but maybe it is good enough for a week or two.

     

It will be enough. <crosses fingers     ) Also, holiday confirmed.  Going on Wednesday afternoon, until the following Tuesday.  C very very pleased, and already packed.     Then on Wednesday we see my daughter's t.  Then the following Monday I see my t again.  And that day is also, incidentally - or would have been - my 18th wedding anniversary.

Which means that it is very likely that I will cancel.  And after 4 weeks, I will not be able to go back again.  Like giving up smoking.  If you start again, it becomes harder to give up the next time.

Thanks, L.

[Anonymous]

Which means that it is very likely that I will cancel.

Can you consider not cancelling this time?

bunny

[October]

Which means that it is very likely that I will cancel.

Can you consider not cancelling this time?

bunny

Yes.  I think it would be better not to cancel.  But if I go this time, that lets her do the same thing again, and that breaks some of my rules.

They hurt me once, I say stop.  Then they hurt me more, because I complained, which is not allowed.  So I stop complaining, and the hurting stops.  I also stop talking.  

That is where I am now.  Not sure how to start again, because it means getting hurt again.  Except on Bob the Builder    this  morning, it said that if you ask for something and you don't get it you have to ask again.  That is a new one for me.  If I ask for something and don't get it, I find it hard to ask again, because generally I don't get it the second, or the third or the fourth time.  And then I give up trying, because it is hard to keep asking.  It seems stupid.  I prefer things that I can control, because they happen.  Things that I cannot control seem never to happen.  Never meaning hardly ever.  Sometimes they do.

Please do not expect this to make sense.  It is primaeval thinking.  

However, somebody sensible, who knew how to maintain appropriate boundaries without getting hurt (not mentioning any names   ) would think that it is sensible not to walk away from help.  So I will try not to.  Very hard though.  But not today's problem, thankfully.  

[Brigid]

October,
I am just curious if your friends have an understanding of the trauma you have experienced--not the details, necessarily, but do they have a sense of what you struggle with?  I'm not suggesting that you should have discussed this with them, as I know that is difficult for you, but are they aware enough of the situation to understand your need of support?  Have you ever been able to develop a relationship (in person, that is) with someone who has experienced a somewhat similar trauma in their life?  Is it possible for you to seek out a support group, or is that too uncomfortable?  

I only ask this because if there was someone in your life who truly understood the affects of cptsd and the other things you struggle with (other than a therapist, obviously), their level of empathy could be somewhat higher and they could relate to your fears.  I know my struggles are minimal compared to yours, but I have found that having a few friends who have had the same or similar experience, helpful when I am having a particularly bad day.  It eliminates the need to explain the why of what I am feeling as they already understand.  However, these were not friends I had prior to my XH leaving and I have gotten to know them while working through the trauma.

I'm happy to hear that your holiday to your aunt's home is settled and C is looking forward to it.  A good thing to be getting away while your T is unavailable.

Brigid

[October]

October,
I am just curious if your friends have an understanding of the trauma you have experienced--not the details, necessarily, but do they have a sense of what you struggle with?  

My friends know as much as they are able to hear.    I am not a particularly secretive person, but I certainly find that people who do not want to know will never hear.  I don't tell them what happened, because it is not important or major.  I tell them that it was neglect and emotional abuse, which is pretty easy to guess from how I react to neglect (or perceived neglect) these days.  I sent my family a paper on how to deal with a member of the family with ptsd, and none of them ever commented on it.  I heard that their view was that if there were so many things to be careful not to say, they had better not say anything at all, ever.  So that is what they do.  Also, mum has told them that I am attention seeking, and to ignore me.  So they do.

Have you ever been able to develop a relationship (in person, that is) with someone who has experienced a somewhat similar trauma in their life?  

In real life, no.  I have an online ptsd site, but nobody real.  Not for the want of looking.  But I have a problem with groups because I tend to be a listener and supporter, and would assume that role in almost any situation.  One to one therapy is the only place where I can't do that.

I only ask this because if there was someone in your life who truly understood the affects of cptsd and the other things you struggle with (other than a therapist, obviously), their level of empathy could be somewhat higher and they could relate to your fears.  

Yes, I get that at the online site.  I don't have so much explaining to do.  I just have to describe a situation, not what happens afterwards.  I have only spoken about it so much here recently because of others who seem to be the same, without understanding it so much.  Normally I don't talk about ptsd or its symptoms here.    

I know my struggles are minimal compared to yours, but I have found that having a few friends who have had the same or similar experience, helpful when I am having a particularly bad day. Brigid

I don't think comparisons can be made on this, and I would never tell anyone that they have it easy.  A struggle is a struggle.  I have a friend who had depression some years ago who always tells me that her depression was far worse than mine has been, because at one point she took to her bed and didn't get up for three weeks.  Because she knows I have never stayed in bed even for one day, she thinks I am not so bad.  This kind of comparison is meaningless, to me.  But you are right, if I had more friends who understood it would be easier.  But the kinds of friends I end up with are generally those where I do the listening, and they do the talking.

But it is not so bad.  I have places to go, and lots of online friends.  It was far worse in the 4 years that I had this thing and didn't know what it was, or where to find other people the same.  I told my friends that somewhere there had to be others like me.  I couldn't be the only one.  And eventually I found some, online.

Thanks for your concern, Brigid.

[bunny]

Yes.  I think it would be better not to cancel.  But if I go this time, that lets her do the same thing again, and that breaks some of my rules.

Well I can understand since she has been (IMO) a terrible therapist. In this country, if a therapist went out of town and told the patient to call Suicide Prevention if they had a problem, they'd lose their license!

Anyway, how about this. Instead of complaining, ask for something like in Bob The Builder. If you don't get it, then ask why this therapist is withholding care? Let her give you some kind of explanation. If the explanation is, "You are too dependent on me," then I would question what is the goal of therapy for her. Because therapy is not about eradicating dependent patients. I wouldn't say anything in an angry tone, I'd sound curious.

take care,
bunny

[October]

Well I can understand since she has been (IMO) a terrible therapist. In this country, if a therapist went out of town and told the patient to call Suicide Prevention if they had a problem, they'd lose their license!

Is that true?  Not doubting your word, Bunny, but I have this written in a letter, so I didn't imagine it.  (And I know you didn't suggest that I did   )  This gets so weird!!!!!  I wish there was someone else I could ask.  Under the NHS we are supposed to have a care team, but I have no team.  

 Anyway, how about this. Instead of complaining, ask for something like in Bob The Builder. If you don't get it, then ask why this therapist is withholding care? Let her give you some kind of explanation. If the explanation is, "You are too dependent on me," then I would question what is the goal of therapy for her. Because therapy is not about eradicating dependent patients. I wouldn't say anything in an angry tone, I'd sound curious.

I'll try all that, thanks.  But if the care is not available under the NHS, it is not regarded as withholding anything.  It is not there to be withheld, if that makes any sense at all.  It makes none to me, I must admit.

(The parenting I had was about 'eradicating' dependent children, for what it is worth.  And 'complaining' includes saying politely, excuse me, I think there is a problem.     )

[bunny]

Ok, they wouldn't lose their license right off. But it would definitely be grounds for a complaint to their licensing board. When a therapist here goes on vacation, they arrange for a substitute therapist. Patients are not left to fend for themselves, that is considered unethical.

The parenting I had was about 'eradicating' dependent children, for what it is worth.  And 'complaining' includes saying politely, excuse me, I think there is a problem.     )

Okay, then I am even more baffled by your therapist doing the exact same thing as your parents. She sounds stupid (sorry). Sometimes it helps to say, "I felt lost, abandoned and destitute when you were gone" rather than, "Excuse me I think there's a problem." Because that is a complaint. Maybe it's time to bypass that whole deal and just get down to the nitty gritty. But you're in England, possibly that is too wierd. It wouldn't be here in the US. I don't know. Anyway have a nice vacation.

bunny