respect

[mudpuppy]

Portia,

But then I have no friends!

Hey! What about me.
I thought we were scrumpy grill buddies.  

mudpup

[Portia]

Did I say I have no friends?  I meant fiends! Now I'm being silly. Sometimes I like to be silly too, talk nonsense and roll around in the grass. ...the green kind that we make lawns out of ....

(((((scrumpy grill buddy Mud))))) (((((everyone))))) bye for now

[Anonymous]

This is the kind of discussion I appreciate. Nice and friendly, nobody taking offense over a simple disagreement of philosophies.  

Yes, me too and I'm not so sure that we so disagree anyway.

I said a person who commits a horrific act should not be treated cruelly, and defined that as being neither tortured nor denied due process of the law.

Got it.  So, does the neither tortured part include neither mentally, neither emotionally, or just physically? (Important distinction, I think you're right, it needs defining).

In treating the person not cruelly, by not torturing (mentally, emotionally, physically), or denying the person due process under the law, then would you say that would be treating the person with basic respect?

If the torturing definition includes all 3 then I think I agree with you.

It almost sounds as though you are saying once the act is in the past this perpetrator is entitiled to the same respect and consideration as people who have commited no such act or possibly even the victim of the act, and that to do anything less is to be just like the perp.

If treating the person with respect means not torturing them mentally, emotionally, physically, not being cruel, allowing for due process in law, then yes, I think all people are equal and should be allowed these basic things, whether criminal or victim.  

Do I think the horrific deed doers should be given ample opportunity to repeat their deeds?  Absolutely not.  I'm not talking about how we might treat behaviours, I'm talking about how we might treat the people who do the behaviours.  Do you understand?

Once a person has demonstrated the willingness to commit a horrific act they have forfeited many rights, including the right to equal respect and treatment from others.

Once a person has committed a horrific act they have demonstrated their utter disrespect and consideration of others.  They have ignored their victims basic rights.  So then do you think by doing so they forfeit their own rights?  I'm not sure about that.  If so, then they would not be entitled to be treated with any consideration, or any respect, and cruelty would be an alright, acceptable way to behave toward them.   See what I mean?

to accord someone who has done something awful the same consideration as those who haven't, is to truly harm the parents and loved ones of the victim.

There are more victims than might be considered is what I guess I'm trying to point out.

It is unfortunate that the parents and loved ones of predators are harmed by the reaction to what the predator does, but I'm afraid that is one of the unfixable facets of life.

It is unfortunate.

[cat]

I said a person who commits a horrific act should not be treated cruelly, and defined that as being neither tortured nor denied due process of the law.

What about the person who doesn’t commit a horrific act (I know some of the people on this board have had that happen to them).  By displaying the N personalities and beating down either physically or emotionally would respect be not treating them cruelly or tortured?

Instead of the attacker coming into your house to kill you, instead put in the attacker as being your parent, spouse, relative, etc – in your life attacking you.  While injury may not be imminent the person being attacked knows immediately there is going to be an attack.

Once a person has demonstrated the willingness to commit a horrific act they have forfeited many rights, including the right to equal respect and treatment from others. They may regain that right after many years of redemptive behavior, but to accord someone who has done something awful the same consideration as those who haven't, is to truly harm the parents and loved ones of the victim.

So, Mudpup, I like your comments above.  It certainly helps me to watch, to understand, maybe they can change.  To allow them the space to rebuild trust. . . to see if their behavior is redemptive, and can be trusted again.  I think by watching or hoping their behavior might change – that is a form of respect or even honor.

[write]

hi Portia!

I’d shrink from physical contact (I have yelled at sales people on the street “don’t touch me!” because that’s my boundary, cultural issues or not, I really don’t care).

well, when you live in another culture you do have to conform somewhat, or life becomes a daily battle. I'm quite used to the hugs and loud greetings etc, and don't even mind them sometimes. Some have led to long-term happy friendships ( or acquaintanceships- I am learning to differentiate the two, )

I guess I have met a few jerks along the way. Always when I've been vulnerable as it happens...

Apparently most people have about 4 or 5 people who are friends (‘they’ did a study). Finding those 4 or 5 people is hard work; most people you meet (er….95%-96%?) will not be ‘good friend’ material because that is simply how it is

You mean 4 or 5 people at the same stage as you, who're available right now?

I have many good friends, but their lives and mine aren't always intertwined or overlapped. Like some are now overseas, or I've noticed that say people who first get married or have a baby tend to drop off the radar for a while. But they're people I can count on to be interested in me and care about me.

I talked again with my therapist about this politeness etc issue, and she says I'm being too hard on myself because I didn't spot the handful of n-people who have given me grief. She said they are accomplished at pretence or deception which is exactly why they leave a trail of misery behined them, loads of people all wondering wtf? ( or in my case wtf is wrong with me...? )

She says I'm getting better all the time because this latest n didn't get more than a few hours of my consideration, admittedly during which time he caused me upset and was belittling.

I have a major problem with letting go of relationships even if they're bad for me, so I guess this is progress.

We're all here P, I've had so much support from this board I think of everyone as friend-material even though we don't know each other!

Back to the respect- I respect all the ns out there. I respect them enough to know that they are miserable pernicious individuals who suck the life out of genuine relationships and emotions. I respect them enough to say- go get therapy so you can rejoin the human race and not perpetuate misery forever.

And most of all I respect them enough to keep away from them and as soon as I realise I've met another, to end the relationship and go on with my healthy life without them.


Gotta go, will read the other posts later.