Hope, are you out there?

[guest]

It's me, Engel.  I just wanted to check in with you to see how you're feeling.  The divorce stuff you described sounds awful.  I am worried that with all of the ugliness around what happened this week, you may not be getting the support you need to get you through the trauma ahead.  But you can do this and ultimately come out the winner, I know you can!  Despite what your N tries to do to you.  

I read yet another book about children of N's (Trapped in the Mirror) that suggests that it may take a long time for the children to see that the consistent love and provision of daily needs by the non-N parent is worth far more than the sporadic adoration and flashy gifts of the N parent, but eventually the children always figure it out.

I don't plan to actively participate in this forum (or at this point, any forum) but did want to let you know that I (and others) care how you're doing.  (BTW, I know I should stay out of this, but I honestly didn't interpret MariaTree's posting to refer to you at all, and I think Lisa meant well when she came over here -- so please don't feel like people are against you.  I understand completely why you might be feeling defensive right now -- I'm sure I would be the same way in your place -- but you were and are well-liked over at N-Partners and I find it sad that you don't seem to believe that any longer.)

Maybe we can figure out a way to communicate safely off-line sometime, since again, I really need a hiatus from on-line forums for a while.  If not, at least please know that I'm thinking about you and sending positive vibes your way.  Many hugs to you.

[Jaded911]

Engel,

I know your intentions were good when you posted this to hope.  I read t that, I can not help but wonder if I am the only one who feels it is a little bit wishy washy on the content.  

We all love you and miss you at N-Partners and we were your friends, however if you would just see that you miss represented Marias post, and you misread everyones feelings for you, Golly hope your N drug you down but I hope you can find some way for peace, and I have to stop and wonder why people just can not understand the whole picture of this situation.  I just can't help myself when I see so many contradicting things there.  

Now please do not think I am trying to attack you, I am not.  But sometimes it is not what is said, it how it is said that matters.  In this quote from you:

 don't plan to actively participate in this forum (or at this point, any forum) but did want to let you know that I (and others) care how you're doing. (BTW, I know I should stay out of this, but I honestly didn't interpret MariaTree's posting to refer to you at all, and I think Lisa meant well when she came over here -- so please don't feel like people are against you. I understand completely why you might be feeling defensive right now -- I'm sure I would be the same way in your place -- but you were and are well-liked over at N-Partners and I find it sad that you don't seem to believe that any longer.)

To say you understand completely how hope could think people are against her, making her a bit defensive to what everyone said, still hope refuses to believe she was liked there and how sad you feel for her because of her MISS PLACED PERCEPTION of her feelings.

I am sorry but I have to think it really should have just been stated like this, it would have meant the same thing.  "Hope, sorry that you continue to misjudge your own opinion, sorry you can not see how wonderful we all were to you, and I am sorry that you can not trust me when I tell you that you were wrong and I was right and Hope, ya just gotta know that I think you are a sad individual because you just cant see what I see, so best of luck in your search for your version of life, it doesnt match mine.

I really am just speaking for myself here, but if I were hope I would not have received one itty bitty bit of comfort from that.  IMHO that just told her if she could have played the game by the rules she would not have been ejected from the game.  I realised the game was rigged, that is exactly why I forfeited.  Gives me the pride that I stood up for what I felt was right, and gives the other side the sense of victory.  Sometimes I feel you come out the winner when you lose.  Hell, thought I lost losing my xN, who really lost there?  Not me, he gave me a one way ticket to freedom.

[Anonymous]

IMHO that just told her if she could have played the game by the rules she would not have been ejected from the game.

Jaded, I'm sorry if that's how my message came across.   That was not at all what I thought or intended and I hope that Hope knows this.  I don't have any interest in getting into an ongoing debate with you or anybody else on this message board or the other one.  As one of your guests on the other thread said, none of these debates are going to change anything, either here or there; they only lead to more acrimony and hard feelings on both sides.  That may be cynical of me, but I am extremely cynical at the moment, based on lots of experience with disillusionment.  That's why I said I was going to withdraw from participating in any forums.  I was just hoping to make Hope feel a bit better, because she is going through such a rough time.  But according to you, I may have only made her feel worse.  Whether you're right or wrong, it's probably best that I just withdraw from all communication from now on, as I had planned.  I'm already starting to regret that I posted this one.

Hope, regardless of how you choose to interpret my post (and ultimately, it's your interpretation that matters to me, nobody else's), I did mean it well.  Good luck with everything in your life.

[Jaded911]

Engel,

Hun I know your intentions were good.  I was not attacking you on what you said.  It is not the words you spoke all together, it just had an undertone.  You do not have to apologise to me, you do not owe me that.  I appreciate that you put forth your feelings to Hope, that showed you cared about her.  I am trying to think of an example to show you what I mean.  Oh got one:  You are invited to dinner.  You bake a cake for someone as a kind gesture.  They thank you for it and you go about your merry way.  The next day you call them and they mention something about the cake.  You ask them how they liked the cake.  They said oh it was good BUT...... it was a little dry...........it needed more icing...........They really liked milk chocolate instead of dark chocolate.......as a matter of fact, I should have known they liked white........    

Yes you delivered a cake with good intentions.  Yes they said they liked it, but in the next breath they were telling you everything they felt was wrong with the cake.  So they basically said yes it is good.....BUT  

I did not state this to hurt your feelings and I am not at all trying to do it now.  Engel you have every right to speak your mind.  I guess what I was trying to say is I always hate it when I have someone tell me something great about me only to follow it with a but.............

It kinda defeats their kind words they just spoke.  I am only speaking about how I perceived.  I would not dare claim to be speaking for hope.  She is free to speak for herself.  I just feel it is little things like this that create big things what we just experienced.  

I do not know how many times my xN would back up a positive with a negative.  It totally negates the whole compliment when that happens.

[hope2003]

Engel:

I really appreciate what you said, and I read your post on the npartners board.  On the other thread, I sent you a note, in case you were reading.

If you join this board, which takes about 15 seconds, you can send me a private message, and we can try to find a way to communicate.

Please consider this option.

I hope that you are still checking this thread out.

[hope2003]

Engel:  I didn't think Mariatree was necessarily referring to me.  But, no matter who she was calling an N, it shouldn't have been allowed if that is the rules accoring to Sandahl.  I was merely pointing out hypocrisy.

[Anonymous]

Jaded~
You're becoming very full of crap.
What Engel wrote to Hope was very heartfelt, she was stating facts that people on the Npartners board really liked her..why is that so odd to you?
Hope is a sweet and caring individual and so is Engel, they struck up a friendship and Engel cares about what Hope is going through!
You're just stirring shit and then analyzing the crap out of it. Stop it, it's getting old.

[hope2003]

Engel:

I am really hoping you come back here to check on your thread.  I guess I won't ever really know unless I hear from you.  You were one of my favorite people on the board.  I share your desire to find a way to connect.

If any of you know how to reach Engel, and can let her know I would love to talk to her, please pass on my message.

Thanks.

[Guest]

This is Max

Jaded - I don't know who you are, but I have to say that I am disappointed to see such attacks against Engel - your explanation doesn't fly.  

I enjoyed and miss the association with you who have left or were banned and don't really understand what happened.

Hope, I really appreciated you on the N Partners board and wish you every success. I think about your situation and keep you in my prayers.

[Jaded911]

Hey Max,

Thats your opinion and ya know what.  Having people shove their opinion down my throat or up my ars, is getting pretty old.  So if ya dont like what I said, say it to me nicely or dont say it.  

Now max if you really think about it, do you back your compliment up with ways they could have done it better.  Ya well that isnt the way I like having compliments said to me.  

But hey max, thank you for your opinion.

[Jaded911]

Guest,

I may be full of crap, but I do not hide behind a mask.  If you got something to direct at me why dont you come out from hiding like a big sand, whoops girl.

Me stiring shit up, ya that is like double standard dont ya think?  Either way this is getting old.  Grow up and play nice now.  Besides that I voiced my opinion, did not attack Engel.  Good lord people do you have nothing better to do with your time??  I am over analyzing stuff?  Like your anger and your refusal to spit your thoughts out with the mast off.  Wow, ya youre right, I really must stop over analysing crap.

By the way, if yall want hope to come back on that forum.  Maybe you should be saying that to Sand and not Hope.  Unless you are wanting her to enter that forum magically by herself.  

Hey Max, thanks for being man enough to state your opinion with your name standing behind it.  Like I said before it is your opinion, every one has a right to share theirs, right?

[Anonymous]

Jaded,

Max is right.

Hope, Take care.
you are also in my prayers.

-rhd

[hope2003]

thank you Max.  I think about you as well.  Please come back here and trade divorce stories.

Thank you to rhd as well.

I am touched by the kind thoughts.

I have a hearing next Wednesday, I can use some positive vibes.

[Anonymous]

Jaded..
I dont have to use my name to get my point across, it shouldnt matter to you who I am or who I was....but if you want , call me Sweetheart, there , since you need a name there ya go.
I've seen others on here voice opinions using their names and they caught all kinds of hell from some of you so Im here incognito. Live with it.

[Acappella]

none of these debates are going to change anything, either here or there; they only lead to more acrimony and hard feelings on both sides.

Speaking for myself ...Personally, I am learning something from this. I am changed for having debated here and for witnessing others goin at it.

Jaded, I don't know wheather I share your interpretation. At first glance I don't think I'd have had that same response as you had.  (I have a headache and I think I am fighting off the flu or something    and would have to invest more energy than I have right now to read and feel it out for sure). AND I am certain I feel that what you said here in this thread was not an attack on anyone.  And, you never said Hope was feeling anything.  You only wrote about what you would have felt or did feel reading what E said.  That is just not an attack in my book.  You said you felt it was wishy washy.  Anyway, you really worked to communicate and I find that so much more effective than statements like "full of crap."  
I learned about you and about your perspective.  I am going to reread the stuff here later and see how I feel too.

"...full of crap."  Now that didn't do anything for clarifying anything for me...it aint even a good visual.  Yeeesh.  

P.S. I can relate to your trying to feel out word salad and direct communication and true intent vs. words.  Oh and I like your zippy hutzpah.  (didn't spell it right probably but ....)