Why do are they so 'magnetic' ???

[jophil]

I had a recent association with a real 'piece of work' of the female persuasion. She is the subject of an earlier post entitled  "Does she have NPD traits".
I got to wondering why we are so drawn to these people?? The attraction that I feel to them seems to be way past what I usually experience in relation to other ladies. The intensity of attraction is so powerful that I feel quite helpless to walk away or ignore her ( a danger sign in itself?) .
When I sense an extreme level of egocentricity in her it seems to amplify my feelings of attraction. I then, typically, get into an emotional 'arm wrestle' in which I feel compelled to prevail by convincing her that she SHOULD try to meet MY needs. The relationship proceeds to become conflicted and competitive in a way that ultimately becomes depleting and exhausting.. The ' nice girls 'that come along do not get any time with me.
Maybe, as Stormy pointed out, we only 'know' those people who remind us of home. Scary !

[longtire]

Hi jophil!  I'll take a guess, though I have no authority in this.  Maybe it is because they have spent their entire existence pretending to be irresistable and they are better at it than others who are OK with themselves and don't try as hard to look good to others?

[Anonymous]

There's a type of addictive attraction called "exciting/rejecting." When you sense that someone is toxic, it is very, very, very exciting and seductive. It feels like infatuation or love but it's this exciting/rejecting drama--the rejection is absolutely guaranteed but it just fuels the excitement to try again. There are parts of you with unfinished business that insist you must try to succeed this time, with this person. It's a replay of childhood trauma. Some people aren't ready to give up the excitement of an addictive attachment. They then repeatedly experience the rejection that accompanies it. When you've had enough, you'll do the inner work to avoid toxic women no matter how seductive they are.

bunny

[write]

and it's simple for me: an old pattern of relating whereby if I try hard enough, be good enough, my parents would have to love me.

Of course it's now out of step with my adult life, but remnants of that trying so hard remain.

It's led me to apologising when I don't need to, feeling like things are my responsibility or my fault when they couldn't possibly be, and extreme perfectionism; it's left me feeling inadequate and not good enough; and it's led me to build all the bridges in relationships and tolerate treatment I should not have done.

Of course- it's also made me the loving loveable person I am too, with all my flaws and faults, and given me many genuine relationships as well as the handful of poisonous ones...and at last I'm finding a place of self-determination and self-acceptance abotu it all!

[jophil]

Thanks to all who replied, and thanks to Bunny who hit it on the head - I GET IT!  I am also aware that in my original family approval and acceptance needed to be 'earned' . The idea of onconditional love still does not 'feel right' to me. There was no easy flow of affection and loving acceptance. I had to 'do something' day after to day to feel OK, and always in an atmosphere of strong parental expectations, criticisms and judgements.
I do not GET easy gentle love. It does not feel like love to me unless it is full of turmoil and my gut is in a knot. I guess that toxic people offer us the opportunity to do it all again just  like Bunny says.

However the light bulb is now ON and burning brightly.
John.

[mum]

Jophil: I think you could probably relate to this:
When my ex had his first (of many) affairs, I remember feeling "this MUST be love because what else could make me so very miserable".

It's the same thing women go for with "bad boys".  In my case, the bad boys reinforced a feeling of unworthiness I had.  

Are you in therapy?  I highly recommend it.  I learned a lot, including:
Love isn't painful at all, and true, deep love is actually more exciting than the ego/adrenaline rush of lust with a "beautiful thing".   I didn't believe it either....til I proved myself wrong, thankfully.

[mum]

Jophil, Just read your post on the other thread that led you to start this one.  I wondered when you said "wildfire" if you weren't just having a hormonal reaction.  I know you are deeper than that, but is she?

 I used to be able to act like that woman, and it scared the hell out of me the few times I did it, how easily men buy that!!! It was heady and powerful in the worst way possible. I could probably still do that, as can any woman with an ability to disconnect from her true self (an actress)...... but WHY????
What bothered me was my own ability to be base and disrespectful of men (and myself at the same time).  I got to be the "bad girl" in some sick retaliation game. (um, I lost)

That's what this woman sounds like.  She is running from something. Some drink, some do drugs, some "play" with peoples emotions and libidos.
It isn't some special "magnetism", it's acting, pure and simple.  
Good for you for questioning your reaction and walking away (laughing).

[jophil]

Mum( Mom?)Thanks for your reply - This whole subject of attraction to 'bad' others is fascinating. I am aware that this particular lady (G) is trouble. She radiates everthing that I dislike at a conscious level , but at another level I am drawn to her very powerfully. She turned up at two dance venues in the past w/end when she knew I was there AND she dragged another guy along on both occasions . If she would do that to him, then she will do that to me. Men mostly think that ,"she will be different with me". I have noticed that people have a particular behavioral style, a SOP or a modus operandi if you like.
Strangely I used to be a 'bad guy' - drinking and partying and wrecking cars and using women. That all finished 14 years ago at AA and one of the first things that happened was that all the women disappeared who were my buddies . I went thru several years of 'famine' and then started to form intimate relationships again with different types of ladies. I still am friends with two of them.
There are still remnants of my former self-destructiveness in my behavior but these days I have self awareness which tends to act as a brake or a filter.
John.

[Brigid]

John,
We have had the discussion about the attraction to "bad boys/girls" before.  Many of us here have been "guilty" of it.  My T explained to me that, at least for me, I choose men who, like my father, need fixing.  I could not fix my father to be what I wanted in a father, so I choose mates that I spend years trying to fix, reign in, tame, mother, you name it.  Obviously, to no avail and results in years of unhappiness for me.  

I agree with mum and bunny that good therapy to heal the part of you that creates this need is your best bet for making positive choices in the future.  Without that part of the healing process, I would no doubt make the same mistake again.

Brigid

[dogbit]

After many months of figuring out why I became involved with "toxic" people, I find that I really have to examine my own responsibility in becoming attracted to them. Maybe you could use this encounter with someone who seems to be quite self-absorbed as a blessing in that you can come to some conclusions as to why you have to ask the question. And, by asking the question, you may be a hell of a lot healthier than she seems to be. I hope this comes across as supportive and not critical. Take care.....

Hi John,
Sorry to take so long to reply and now I see you have started a new thread!  I'll talk about me for a while since it may clarify what I wrote before in the previous thread.  I married my husband because he was needy but also extremely bright and very handsome.  And he seemed to care very much about me.  Now to the needy part:  At that time, since I had grown up with a very narcissistic mother, I learned that my value to anyone that might find me "loveable" was based on my ability to fix them, take care of them, provide emotional support, and, in general, present a front to the world that showed my husband to be a normal average guy.  If I couldn't do this (in my mind), then I was worthless.  That's why I know believe that I can't spend much time trying to diagnose my husband but I have to spend lots of time trying to return to the me I want to be.  My husband now is only a foil to show me the reasons I got into this mess and the best ways to return to being a more authentic person.  This girl you talk about is definitely bad news.  I'm just going to toss some ideas out here but are you thinking about saving her?  It doesn't sound like you are.  Are you intrigued because she represents a part of your past that was exciting but not very fulfilling?  I still think about old boyfriends from 30 years ago who were drunks and drug dealers!  (I was very young, my only excuse   )  I used to want to know what is it about them that was so attractive when it was really about what was about me that wanted to hook up with a loser!  Oh, if I'd only known them what I know now ... Take care

[mudpuppy]

Hi Jophil,

I find women like you described truly repulsive, not attractive.

I had a fairly normal childhood and never felt that I needed to 'earn' my parents love, so maybe that is where it comes from.

All I can say is, when I see a woman acting like that, my reaction is sorrow at her insecurity and hollowness, not excitement at the prospect of being whip sawed.

In fact they are almost invariably really boring in my experience.
I mean, sure there's lots of drama, but its all about the N. That is a recipe for total boredom, in my book.
At least I find it incredibly dull. Maybe others don't, although it is hard for me to see how the infantile games this kind plays can be thought of as anything but tedious to the point of tears.
I'm sure a lot of people might find my wife boring, but after fifteen years she's cooler to me than when I met her, and I'm sure its because she is absolutely genuine. Authenticity is a lot sexier and more exciting to me than a phony, flamboyant train wreck in waiting.

mudpup

[mum]

Mudpup: from the female perspective, I can't agree more.  The best man I ever met (my current...... and former fiance) is not flashy, bright on the radar screen, "noticable" in those ways....but he is secure, strong, talented without forcing notice of that onto people (secure again), benevolent, patient, introspective, friendly and extremely sexy because of all of the above!!!
(PS, I will assume that by describing your wife as "cooler" you did not mean in a warm/intimate sense!!).

[mudpuppy]

Oh man. I didn't even see how that sounded.
Thanks mum.
My wife is definitely     er to me after fifteen years, not (icicle emoticons).

mud

[jophil]

Hi again from Down Under -
Thanks to all of you -I am aware now that this particular 'lady' is more trouble that she is worth. Even though your comments are fortifying  to me against a 'relapse' , it is a struggle not to call or email her. God bless AA for giving me the concept of 'one day at a time' . It is all I can manage right now.
There was a movie called "Damage" back in the early 1990's starring an English actor named Jeremy Irons (sp?). He was having a 'hot and heavy' with his own's son's fiancee. In one bed scene she says to him, "Beware of damaged people -they know what they have to do to survive".( and they will do it!) -my words in parenthesis.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jophil:

I haven't read your other thread yet but I just wanted to say something about this:

we only 'know' those people who remind us of home.

Would it help to examine your childhood home some more?
What did you feel?  Lack?  Long for?  Feel guilty/ashamed of?  Need?  Want?  Give?  Fight about/for?  Miss?  What hurt?  What felt good?  Mde you feel angry/resentful/jealous/envious/confused?
Etc.

Not here or for anyone here, if you don't feel like it, but more for you, in private, if that feels better.

The reason I think this might be important is because some of it might connect with what you feel, lack, long for, etc now, or in past relationships.  I know this point has already been somewhat suggested but I'm talking about a more indepth look at the little boy you were and what he felt/needed/experienced and how some of that might need to be worked  
through/examined....discarded/embraced......pondered/forgotten...  before it gets burried deeper/ignored and before any further relationships develop.  Maybe?

GFN