Need help to manage my own anger

[AKA Guest2]

Salamander girl?!?
Holy smokes what idiot gave you that idea for a name?  
Whoever that fool was you probably shouldn't listen to him.  

I don't recall who it was exactly....only that all his other advice was spot on!

I like Daisy a lot better....Anything but salamander girl. Sorry for the amphibious suggestion. It sounded better in theory than practice. Besides it's too long.

Yes, I prefer to have a name I can spell correctly without too much effort. Daisy is a bit too sweet.   Who was it that suggested a flower name?  How about.....NARCISSUS!!!!!!!!!  (Author laughs uncontrollably and falls off chair)
 

Sorry you have been through so much. That you are still here fighting for a little dignity and respect and that you are a warm and kind person shows how strong you are.

Thank you.  I am warm and kind sometimes.  Other times I am biting and stinging.  (Hey!  maybe scorpion...)

Maybe Spunky is a pretty darn good name. It sure fits.

It just goes to show that I have actually made some progress.  In the past, I would have taken offense and felt all kinds of bad.  Now I just realize that you don't have any idea what you are saying!  Spunky is a synonym for more than plucky or brave, I am here to tell you.   So I think I will pass.  If I tell you what it means it might not get past the filter....
Scorpion
aka Guest2

[AKA Guest2]

PS I'm going on vacation.  I'll be baaack!

[Plucky Guest2]

Hi everyone,
I feel as if my anger is not as bad as it was on that fateful night.  Much due to being able to post here and be supported.    Part of me feels like I don't deserve something so good.

This is actually unconditional and I am so not used to it!   So I feel like I need it, but I also feel like I must be building up a big debt somewhere.   Does anyone else feel like this? It is not logical but I can't shake it.   This is why I keep trying to register and can't.  I don't want anyone coming after me to pay back that debt!

I have been better with the kids and my husband is not as able to push my buttons.  He is very curious what I am doing on the computer so much.   I have been standing up to my mom and ignoring her.  She is clearly a bit baffled by it.    It feels wonderful.

Thank you.

[dogbit]

I don't want anyone coming after me to pay back that debt!

I don't think anyone here would come after you.  So many people in my life have helped me in many ways and I knew I could never repay them.  But I can use the help they gave me to help the new people in my life.  I think the Amish have a saying about this.  Also, when I was urged to take parenting classes or talk to a therapist, I, in my lack of self-esteem, took that to mean that I was deficient.  Not so!  I needed these classes or therapists to support me in going down the right path since I wasn't getting it from my husband or parents or in-laws.  It's really hard to do it on your own.  And, I think, there are two different types of help.  One to support your own identity as a Mother and the other to rectify a troubled relationship with your husband.  I think they are two separate issues.  For myself, Ihave to say that I would err on improving my self-image as a mother.  Your husband has his own options.  He could follow your example or not.  Your kids are always your kids.  Husbands can be temporary.  I have no advanced degrees and this is just advice from my own experience!

[Plucky Guest2]

Also, when I was urged to take parenting classes or talk to a therapist, I, in my lack of self-esteem, took that to mean that I was deficient.

I don't think that at all.  Well in fact I did think it, and I was right when it came to parenting.  I knew I needed more knowledge and modeling of good behavior, and I got it.   But all the knowledge in the world is not going to help you. if you are spilling over with rage.

As far as therapy, I would like to get it.  It just seems like such a big obstacle right now.  I have so many things on my plate.  Even coming on this board has resulted in my neglecting my housework and my kids.  We are living in a sty, but it is worth it to me.    Anyone in therapy knows that it takes some time to find the right person.  I'm not up to telling my stopry again and again, or even just again, right now.

I like this place.  I can talk and listen without going anyplace.  Without paying.  Without worrying what other messages are being sent and received by appearances, the sound of my voice, etc.  Without it being a public thing perhaps, in my community or even with my husband.   It is working for me now.

I had a new memory today.  When I flew out of town as a 17 year old, to look at a potential new college, my plane was late. So I missed my shuttle.  I didn't want to be late for my interview, so I took a taxi who promised to take me for the same rate.  Once I was in the cab, the (huge) guy turned menacing and took me for a ride all over the city, to "sightsee", despite my protests.  I was scared to death.  Then he stopped in a huge deserted park in the middle of the city and got out a blanket, and made me sit on it.    He pulled out a joint and made me smoke it.  I refused but he was very menacing and I was all alone with him in a deserted place.  Afterwards I was very disoriented and he kept trying to convince me to kiss him. I started to cry and he eventually took me where I was going.  Thank God I did not get raped that time.  He did make me give him all my money, so the whole weekend I had very little to eat.  I never told anyone, even at the school where they tried to get me to say why I was 2 hours late.    

Why did I have so many experiences like this?  Was I putting out a signal saying, 'rape me' or something?  I don't understand.

This suddenyl came back when I was listening to the radio and a story about 2 cops giving alcohol to 2 17 year old girls and taking them to a park came on.

I don't feel too plucky right now.

[Anonymous]

Hi Plucky:

It sounds like you're feeling more confident in your ability to deal with stuff, with support here.  I'm glad to hear that and to see you posting!

Why did I have so many experiences like this?

Sometimes, questions like this are unanswerable, if you ask me.  Sometimes, stuff just happens, I think.

It is frustrating, though, to keep wondering why, why, why?  And many of us do that because it seems the way to prevent a recurrance.

For me, the answer does not usually come....as far as an explanation as to why, but the answer does come...in the form of..... how.

How to prevent this again?  What to do to protect myself from such people, as much as possible?

That must have been a terrifying experience for you!  I felt....there with you..., just reading it.  Creep!   And you have never told anyone?  You've been carrying that around all this time?  Gee!  It must be a relief to talk about it!

Do you think it might be necessary to do more than tell....to truly express how you felt/feel about that awful experience?  I mean....would it help to punch something?  Like a pillow or rip up paper or something?   Did you express/release your feelings about it, near that time, or have you held them in, too, ever since?

Do you still worry that such things might happen to you again?

(((((((Plucky)))))))

I'm sorry that jerk did that to you!   I'm glad he didn't rape you but it's the fear......instilled by such events....that is said to do the real damage.  I don't know if that is true or not for you.   Do you think fear might be there, underneath the anger, in this case?

For me......I need to feel safe, so I have taken steps to help myself feel safer in the world.   Glad you are posting, Plucky.

GFN

[Plucky Guest2]

Hi GFN and others,

How to prevent this again? What to do to protect myself from such people, as much as possible?

I think finally I got it in my early 20s.  My solution was a good offence.  I realized that I was too nice.   So I took steps to become harder, and became more careful about listening to my inner voice.  Nowadays I am not terribly worried about having such a thing happen again.  I am in touch with my rage, and I can let it out, if I need to.

However, now that you mention it....a similar thing happened in my 30s again.  It really surprised me.  I had a number of friends over for a long weekend.   The last to leave was a guy we had all met at a ski trip.  I had no inkling he was after me.  Once everyone else was gone, he started to pressure me for phrsical contact.  He was not accepting no for an answer.    Finally I started to cry.  He still did not let up.  Somehow he finally gave up.    I was very shaken after.  I do feel some success because I was not raped.  And I did tell mutual friends afterwards, and warned a female friend whom he had contacted and planned to visit.  He kep calling me afterwards even though I asked him not to. I finally told him not to call be again or I would call the police, and he stopped.  Afterwards he was very apologetic and said it was the result of a cultural difference (he was German).

Gee! It must be a relief to talk about it!

It is better than anything else in my life right now.

Did you express/release your feelings about it, near that time, or have you held them in, too, ever since?

My feelings at the time were that I had better keep it quiet.  I think I felt like it was somehow my fault.  

Do you still worry that such things might happen to you again?

I think that now, I would commit murder rather than let myself be victimized again.  Also, I think that having an N parent, you ignore your thoughts because they do not jibe with what the parent is saying and you cannot divorce yourself from your only source of support.  I am still regaining that inner voice.

Do you think fear might be there, underneath the anger, in this case?

 Yes.  And that fear is triggered sometimes by things that might be commonplace.  Sometimes, back when my husband used to touch me, he would touch me or approach me in a way that made me panic.  He did not want to understand why I reacted the way I did - he wanted me to hide my past and as a result I felt even more shameful about it, and angry with him for not supporting me and even making it worse.

For me......I need to feel safe, so I have taken steps to help myself feel safer in the world.

What steps?  What do you mean?  And why do you feel unsafe?  Do you feel safe now, after the steps you have taken?

Plucky G2

[Anonymous]

Hiya Plucky:

My solution was a good offence. I realized that I was too nice. So I took steps to become harder, and became more careful about listening to my inner voice.

Good for you!  I did something similar.  I'm not sure I would call myself "harder" but definately stronger, less vunerable etc.

That inner voice does warn us but we don't always listen.  I'm better at it now.  I'm glad you feel not terribly worried now too.

Gee!  And that guy when you were in your 30's?  Another goof!!  Cultural difference my sweet patootootie!!  I think there was more to it than that!

My feelings at the time were that I had better keep it quiet. I think I felt like it was somehow my fault.

Your fault!  You should not have gotten into that cab!  All cabs contain potential rapists!!

Does that sound loonie to you?  I bet you don't still think it's your fault!
I feel angry and sickened by his disgusting behaviour toward you!  And...for the feelings he induced in you!!!  The confusing guilt!  The fear!   I'm so sorry this happened to you, Plucky.

I think that now, I would commit murder rather than let myself be victimized again.

I sure hope nothing even close to that ever happens.  The good thing about rage is you can keep a little for a rainy day.  Never, ever use more force than absolutely necessary to protect yourself though, or you could end up being raped by the system.  Make 'em think you will....sometimes works.

he wanted me to hide my past and as a result I felt even more shameful about it, and angry with him for not supporting me and even making it worse.

You didn't do anything wrong Plucky.  It was not your fault.  Not a bit.  Your husband may be afraid of his own feelings in regard to what happened to you and it is selfish of him to want you to hide anything, imo.   I don't blame you for feeling angry with him for making it worse for you.   I wonder if he realizes he has made it worse for you?  Doesn't matter, I guess, it's done.  He doesn't sound very empathetic.

 For me......I need to feel safe, so I have taken steps to help myself feel safer in the world.  

What steps? What do you mean? And why do you feel unsafe? Do you feel safe now, after the steps you have taken?

I feel a certain amount of fear of this kind of thing, as I'm sure others do, in general because there are people in the world who prey on others.  I don't lose sleep about it, or anything like that, but it crosses my mind and it dictates, actually, certain choices I make.

For instance, I wouldn't walk alone on city streets at night, if I could help it, these days because I'm older and can't run as fast as I used to be able to.  I used to like to walk my dog, at 11pm at night, when I lived in the city, years ago.   My dog was a white sheppard who weighed alot more than I did and hated men (sorry guys....that's just the way she was.  Some man must have been mean to her before I adopted her???).  You couldn't miss her in the dark and you could hear her growling and snarling from quite a ways away.  Not many people would probably tango with her, if it could be avoided.  Not many had the guts to even walk by her.  Most people crossed the street quick.  I felt very safe with her by my side.  I also thought/think it's shameful that I must arm myself with a ferocious dog, in order to enjoy a leisurely walk, on a nice summer night.  But that's the way it is and so....I give the shame to those who deserve it....those who might try to harm me!

One of the steps I've taken is to always keep big, scary dogs.  That might sound a bit paranoid and it might even be a bit paranoid but....I'm happy being a bit paranoid or sounding so, in that case, as long as I feel safer.  And I do.  Believe me....my dogs are well trained and smarter than me....so they will know....before my instincts kick in.....who to bite/eat/tear to shreds..depending on the person's resistence/lack of common sense/ability to run really fast!!!  (heeheehee ).  And I'll be running the other direction, as best I can, dialing on my cell.   Ofcourse, my dogs are useless against guns.....but......it will be hard to shoot them and me at the same time, if...the gun is still available and not in my dog's mouth, along with the hand that's holding that gun!

I feel safe enough now.  I drive to most places because I live in the country now.  I usually take a dog with me.  I have experience and confidence, under my belt and that helps.  I have/would use anger to protect myself, if needed and I know a few self defense tricks.   I don't take unnecessary risks, which I have done but have learned by doing so.  I don't look like a victim, either.  Eye contact says a lot and I don't show fear very easily, even if I'm feeling terrified (conscious choice).  A lot of this came one step at a time, beginning a long time ago so it's reflex now.

... that fear is triggered sometimes by things that might be commonplace.

It's ok to react to that fear.  If you feel it, there could be a logical reason or just a gut instinct.  I ignor fear totally when I'm cornered but otherwise I pay attention and decide if it's realistic.  Some fears are.

One rule I learned is:

Decide what your attacker wants and give him/her the exact opposite.

Not only does this stun them, quite often, but it confuses them all to heck, giving you time to get away.

This happened to me once, when I was sitting, reading a book, on a subway train (I've had so many agrivating experiences on subway trains!! )  Anyway, this guy gets on, and stands infront of me, holds onto the bar that hangs from the ceiling with one hand and opens his trench coat with the other....revealing.....rubber boots, hairy legs and nothing in the way of clothing elsewhere.  I glanced up from my book and saw......but didn't make eye contact and thought:  "What does this jerk want me to do?"  (Probably go....oooooooo.......eeeeeee.....help!!  right?)

So I closed my book, carefully put it in my bag, took my time, did up my jacket, picked up my purse, then.....looked him straight in the eye.....thinking:  "Fix you!"....then I looked down to his....you know.....then back in the eye.....then......

I broke out laughing as loudly as I could!  Speaking loudly and choking on my laughing:  "Ha!!!  Look at that guy!!  I can't believe it!!  Never seen anything that small in all my life!!  Too halarious!!  Tried to scare me with that thing!!  No way in h**L! " etc., getting up, walking away, not looking back, all at the same time.

The guy turned purple and got off the train at the next stop.  I had walked to the other end of the car, where there were plenty of people and sat beside some big burley looking fellow, who looked like he thought I was nuts.

My worry was that if I didn't do something drastic, this guy might follow me, when I got off the train.  I didn't like that idea at all.

another good rule:

Never be afraid to make a big, loud, ridiculous scene!

People pay attention to those.  You may look like an idiot but you'll be an alive looking idiot!! (much better than some other choice idiots!!)

 

Hope you're ok Plucky.  Sorry for this long one.  Glad you're posting.

GFN

[Anonymous]

hi GFN,

had to respond.  

i just loved your post.                  

that fellow on the train must have shrunk with  

i noticed you didn't ask many or any questions either???    i  have to say i missed those.  

keep up the god work - um - i mean good work

guest for now no:2

[Anonymous]

Hi GFN#2:

Are you my clone??  Do you look like me, I can't tell?  Where did you come up with such a fancy name?
(all kidding ofcourse...     ).

Yes....I was lucky to find a way to embarass a person (the guy on the subway train) who seemingly usually suffers little embarassment ( ).  I mean, one would have to feel very little embarassment, I think, in order to go around exposing their most private parts to complete strangers......or.....maybe they get high on embarassment (highly doubtful.......more likely it's the shock, fear, etc they see in the faces of those they expose themselves to...that power.... that gives them the high, I bet).  Anyway.....ya....purple is a real cool colour to see on people like that.  I do feel a great fear of such a person though because it's always a risk to act and chance some wild reaction from them, or their rage!!

re: questions:  I didn't have many to ask ......brain recovering from sun beating on it on Sunday.

Thanks for your kind words.   I don't know if I'd call it work.  Just my way of communicating sometimes.

I do have one for you Plucky, if you feel like answering.  If not, not to worry.

So I took steps to become harder....

What steps did you take?   This might help others.

GFN

[Plucky G2]

What steps did you take? This might help others.
GFN

I selected the hardest thing for me to do, and just plunged into it.  I was shy.  I had a soft voice.  I was quiet.  I could not stand rejection.  Yes, in a word, I was voiceless.

I got a job at 100% commission cold call selling over the phone.  In a shop where most of them were macho guys.  This was about the most uncomfortable thing I could have done.  It was sink or swim.

In order to live I had to abandon my innocence and softness and develop some shrewdness.   My skin got thicker.  I had to to overcome the desires of the person at the other end of the line to hang up and not purchase it, in order to achieve my goal of selling it.  I was not great.  But I did ok.  One day I stayed on the phone with one person for an hour.  It was so hard I was crying and I was sweating and bleeding.  But I made the sale.  Everyone in the shop could see that I was crying.  But I really needed the money.

After that I thought I would be embarassed.  But everyone saw me with new respect.  I had pushed through my feelings and gotten the sale.  That was a turning point.

Having said this, I am not sure this can be applied by everyone!  But throwing myself into cold deep water like that definitely made me focus and develop some skills quickly.  I did not have time to wallow in it.    I did not have the luxury of reflection.

Hope this helps someone!

[Anonymous]

Hi GFN#2:

Are you my clone??  Do you look like me, I can't tell?  Where did you come up with such a fancy name?
(all kidding ofcourse...     ).

Yes....I was lucky to find a way to embarass a person (the guy on the subway train) who seemingly usually suffers little embarassment ( ).  I mean, one would have to feel very little embarassment, I think, in order to go around exposing their most private parts to complete strangers......or.....maybe they get high on embarassment (highly doubtful.......more likely it's the shock, fear, etc they see in the faces of those they expose themselves to...that power.... that gives them the high, I bet).  Anyway.....ya....purple is a real cool colour to see on people like that.  I do feel a great fear of such a person though because it's always a risk to act and chance some wild reaction from them, or their rage!!

re: questions:  I didn't have many to ask ......brain recovering from sun beating on it on Sunday.

Thanks for your kind words.   I don't know if I'd call it work.  Just my way of communicating sometimes.

I do have one for you Plucky, if you feel like answering.  If not, not to worry.

So I took steps to become harder....

What steps did you take?   This might help others.

GFN

Hi GFN,

No I'm not your clone, or some creepy cyber nut. But I can relate and I do relate to your style here. And ahve been helped by your posts greatly. I hope that's okay. I've thought about it and it's because I 'get' your genuine warmth and sincerity from the types and detail of questions you ask, and from the suggestions you make. Others ahve commented the opposite. I know that. But I think you do take the time to read and you don't just jump to conclusions and tell people what to do. Whether or not your suggestions are accepted, or if your questions are seen as invasive doesn't register with me. I can see your detail and the thought you put into it. Listening is a rare commodity nowdays, and it is half of civilisations problem. That is that no-one bothers or takes the time to listen anymore. Just ask our young people. And this is what I think you do very well , you listen (read) intently. And I think that makes you a rare and very special commodity. Especially here in the voicelessness community where (pardon me for being blunt - no offence intended) we have our fair share of 'know-alls' who are intolerant and just post short 'telling and talking down to us' stuff. Balance that with the so many of us here shouting that they we were never ever listened to, and hence never developed a voice. That's why I have been and am such a staunch supporter of you and your style. And I don't apologize for that. I hope that explains a bit and removes any possible creepiness. Changed my name to GIFT

Guest in for Today

[Anonymous]

Hi today:

Plucky wrote:

I selected the hardest thing for me to do, and just plunged into it.

That took great courage!!  Wow!!  You are definately my heroine for that!!

 ...

throwing myself into cold deep water like that definitely made me focus and develop some skills quickly.

They say if one falls off a horse, the best thing to do is to get right back on it.

You did that...you got back on the horse....went out into the world....ignored your fear and frustration....set a goal....and tried your darndest to achieve it (and did get there, by the sounds of it)!!

Way to go Plucky!  I'm so glad you did that!   That had to help!  Do you think it might be possible, though, that you skipped mourning a great loss?  What I mean is....the mourning of your safe feelings....your security...that was dashed/stolen/trampled on by the awful events that created the fear and other feelings?

I'm just wondering because you say you feel such anger and even rage and that has to have a source.  Maybe the source is partly buried by your great and admirable effort to just get strong and go on!  That was admirable and very brave!  But maybe there is still some grieving to do and because it's not been done, it's brewed into/metamorphed into anger?
Or maybe the anger from those awful experiences was never released either?  And both grief and anger are cooking up a big storm?

Just my thoughts.  I could be completely off my rocker.  Wouldn't be the first time (heehee ).

Plucky I think you are a very open, inspiring person.  Thankyou for sharing that story about the telemarketing!  I bet it will help someone else!

Hey Gift!

That was some gift you gave me!   I do feel embarassed by such great compliments (and I do appreciate and thank you hugely for your great kindness and generosity too).

I have a hard time internalizing such a gift.  I could argue every point you made, probably with good examples, in my own head, and dispute with accuracy, every nice thing you said about me.   I think it might be because I was criticised sooo much, as a child, and by my first husband, and rarely complimented (thus did not learn how to accept compliments graciously).   Still learning that.  Criticism, although somewhat painful to experience too, seems easier for me to consider and accept.

Thankyou sincerely Gift.   Such gifts are indeed rare.

...have been helped by your posts greatly. I hope that's okay.

I'm so glad to have been a help, in any way.  I hope you're feeling ok or better than that!

Thanks for the hug.  You too ((((((Gift))))))

GFN

[Anonymous]

PS Gift:

Did I imagine a hug or are you the same person:

Guest for Today, in the "anything" thread.

If you're not....thanks for the imaginary hug that I felt reading your kind words.

GFN

[Plucky G2]

Question:

Do you think it might be possible, though, that you skipped mourning a great loss?
I'm just wondering because you say you feel such anger and even rage and that has to have a source. Maybe the source is partly buried by your great and admirable effort to just get strong and go on! ...maybe there is still some grieving to do and because it's not been done, it's brewed into/metamorphed into anger?
Or maybe the anger from those awful experiences was never released either? And both grief and anger are cooking up a big storm

?

Answer:  yes, yes, and yes.  You are very perceptive.  Your comments are so spot on.    I finally have a name and description for what I went through.  For me that is important and the key to unwinding the tourniquet.  (Why did that metaphor suddenly crop up?   Hmmmm, I'll follow this....)   I guess I kind of amputated the wounded limb as I could not tell why it was injured and it couldn't heal it alone.    Then I wound something tightly around it and marched on.

But, eventually that bloody pain came back and busted through the painkillers I had been slathering on it!  

[(Barf) This is really bad writing.  English teachers out there, skip on to the next post.]

Thanks to this board, I am able to really start healing.  I should be ready for a prosthesis any day now.

BTW I ended up on this board really looking for a marriage problems board!  I had no idea what NPD was but from the first thing I read, it was clear I belonged here.  I do have a guardian angel, apparently.

Feeling more and more
Plucky