Just heard the news... London. So sad. Please check in, dear ones,

[Portia]

GFN……Sela!

How can people behave like such animals? 

Possibly the bus bombers blew themselves up in the process. Possibly they were suicide bombers? Suicide bombers do what they do sometimes to achieve paradise in heaven, I've heard. Their reward. They have a real motive to die. Incredible to me. But not really, mistreated children can be brainwashed into anything.

How can they justify what they do and consider themselves good/like heros?  How can they watch the suffering of others and enjoy it??

(Bold intended.)This can be applied to any situation where people kill and maim other people for some ‘just cause’. Not to mention any particular of course, but any war will do. I was a little angry too when I sat and watched the events unfold on tv. I was angry that some people think that this sort of thing has to happen. And I’m sad for those people, as well as angry. With the Olympics coming to London, I shan’t be visiting the capital if I’m around in 7 years. It seems an obvious target for angry people from those countries who aren’t invited (or who can’t afford) to join the party. “You can’t join in our game. You’re not civilised enough!” Civilised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trust our governments to handle it?
How useless is that???

I think it’s a bit like trusting our parents to do their very best for us. No, not a bit, a lot like that. A lot. Many people do trust their govts to handle things. And they’re trained by the state not to think for themselves. I do think that most people behave in some way like children some of the time. Especially when it comes to voting or other real ‘adult’ stuff! Governments are parents. The police are parents. etc etc.

It is useless to put your trust – your life – in someone else’s hands, unless you know them and trust them through knowledge of them through a close relationship. Do I trust any authority in the UK with my life? Nope. I’m just one in 66 million people and of no individual value (unless i do something to challenge the authority of the authorities....or alternatively, do something to make them look good, like winning a tinny Gold Medal ...... .) Have I gone too far yet???? (Always checking with my little insidious voices ) What do you think Sela?

[Stormchild]

(‘feeling’ as opposed to ‘thinking’ people perhaps?)

Is it possible to both think and feel? I think it is... at least, I feel as though I think that. Or, anyway, I think I feel that way.

[October]

(‘feeling’ as opposed to ‘thinking’ people perhaps?)

Is it possible to both think and feel? I think it is... at least, I feel as though I think that. Or, anyway, I think I feel that way.

I would say it is possible to feel without thinking, but not possible to think without feeling, unless you are from my family, where feelings are not allowed, and you learn at an early age to switch them off.   

My t asked me once, where is the switch?  I said, in the mind, of course.  Where else?

Off to lie down and stop thinking too much    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Sela]

Hi all:

Hey P:  Ya, just as you say:

...mistreated children can be brainwashed into anything.

And whole societies teach children to seek such sick "rewards" too eh?

...any war will do.

Won't it though!  War is evil!!!!

And I’m sad for those people, as well as angry. With the Olympics coming to London, I shan’t be visiting the capital if I’m around in 7 years. It seems an obvious target for angry people from those countries who aren’t invited ...

I would probably not go either.  Another sad thing that angers me.  Your country won such an honour and people will be afraid to attend because they could be a target.  The terrorists win again!!!   They instill fear successfully!!!

I hate letting terrorists win!!!  I really do!!!   

Do I trust any authority in the UK with my life?

To a certain extent, none of us have any choice.  The authorities are in charge of such things as security and the police/secret services are in charge of tracking terrorists.  The only real choice we have is to attend or not attend gatherings, to ride or not ride transportation, to hide in our houses like mice or risk being blown up on a simple subway ride.   Trust?  I don't trust that anything is even moderately secure.  The only safe place in this world is our graves!!!
I'm not there yet so I take the odd risk.  But I feel like a coward!!

Who said the world is safe?  How stupid of me to expect it!!  I'm the one with the problem.  I need to accept that there is no such thing as safe.  Working on that.  Not liking it though.

As to thinking and feeling.....I think I feel.  I act (even though my choices, in this case are limited).  I act by speaking out.  I act by taking some risks.  I act by praying for peace.   I feel fear and anger and sadness because I think I am safe and then realize, I'm not.
I feel the pain of those who have lost people they care about over such ridiculous, incredible, selfishness.

I seek my rewards but not by way of harming others.  I'm lucky I was born in a place where I was taught that.  I pity the uncivilised and I vent because at least that will help me to remember what I have been taught, and hopefully keep me....from becoming a terrorist too.

Sela

[Portia]

Great vent Sela! I won’t be staying away from London in 2012 from fear though: it’s a bit like not crossing the road in front of an oncoming car – why take the risk? But then I am particularly risk-averse these days. Well for daft things anyway.

What’s that line?...”Terrorism begins at home” and it’s true. Terrorists are made not born and not everyone in a certain social environment bows to the dictator of the day, some resist (those who have a good sense of self and who can question the hogwash they are fed).

Those who can’t question, who need to feel wanted and valuable….are targets. Are they selfish? Yes. But there’s always, always a reason (which is never an excuse). Sela, I guess someone somewhere loved you and gave you something to sustain you through your childhood? Those who have nothing to sustain them – and it doesn’t have to external, it can be some inner realisation I think (Dave Phelps –sp? - for eg) – those who have nothing…do they enjoy what they do? Do they ever enjoy anything? I’m not on their side! I'm trying to understand.

I’m haunted by reports from people who been eyeball to eyeball with the child soldiers of the Congo. Ten year old boys with Kalashnikovs, twitchy and ready to kill anyone for any reason, or no reason, with no reasoning or ‘normal’ emotions left. Brutalised and brutal. Those are the kids that really make me think (and feel); and they are terrorists too. Some people take the job of working with kids like that, trying to break down the walls in their heads. Incredible people eh? I think so. I admire people who would do that.

Anyway, feeling and thinking, yep, we do both, I guess what I meant is which one dominates in a person. Thinking dominates in me, I’m trying to recognise my feelings more but I do recognise that people are different and some feel more/first/differently than others.

Better go. Back in a few days. Take care all and be as safe as you wish and are able, but please take risks too – taking risks for the things we care about it is worth it I think.

[Sallying Forth]

GFN……Sela!

How can people behave like such animals? 

Possibly the bus bombers blew themselves up in the process. Possibly they were suicide bombers? Suicide bombers do what they do sometimes to achieve paradise in heaven, I've heard. Their reward. They have a real motive to die. Incredible to me. But not really, mistreated children can be brainwashed into anything.

I read a book about the why of violence, Controlling People by Patricia Evans. The bottom line is perpetrators of violence can't relate to people with a true connection rather they relate through disconnection. They are terrified to be separate and protect themselves at all costs [attack others] so they wont be vulnerable. Evans calls it a backwards connection. She likens it to being in someone's mind thinking, believing, talking, etc. for the other person. "You should, would, must, could, do, did, shall, will, be, have, are, etc." Rather than normal communication, asking questions and listening. The god complex. When I hear someone speak this way to me the first thing that comes up is, "Who died and made you god?"

Trust our governments to handle it?
How useless is that???

I think it’s a bit like trusting our parents to do their very best for us. No, not a bit, a lot like that. A lot. Many people do trust their govts to handle things. And they’re trained by the state not to think for themselves. I do think that most people behave in some way like children some of the time. Especially when it comes to voting or other real ‘adult’ stuff! Governments are parents. The police are parents. etc etc.

It is useless to put your trust – your life – in someone else’s hands, unless you know them and trust them through knowledge of them through a close relationship. Do I trust any authority in the UK with my life? Nope. I’m just one in 66 million people and of no individual value (unless i do something to challenge the authority of the authorities....or alternatively, do something to make them look good, like winning a tinny Gold Medal ...... .)

Very useless! And not for me! I will never trust my government [US] and wherever its talons reach. I've been a pawn and puppet in their game so I know they can't be trusted.


I was on a mini-vacation with no news access so I didn't hear about the London bombings until late in the day on the 8th PST time. I was shocked and saddened.

My prayers and thoughts are with you.

[Sela]

Hello all:

Hey P:

I'm trying to understand.

I think I understand that children who are taught to behave like terrorists, will most often behave like terrorists.  It's not that I don't understand how they get that way.  I guess it's a bit like the chicken and the egg.  Which came first?  The terrorist or the terrorist's teacher?
I understand that these people have been molded but I don't like the mold.

And the feelings evoked in me by terrorist actions.....are clear.  Yes, it was a good vent.  Thanks P.

  "Who died and made you god?"

Exactly ITexperiment!  Terrorists play like the wrath of some God!  As if it is their right to put that wrath into action!  And they don't connect to their victims.  They are sick individuals.  I do pity them and I do pray for them.

But that doesn't dispell the sad, angry, fearful, helpless feelings I have when I hear of the harm they have caused.  I can love them but not their behaviour.  I guess that's what I'm saying.  I can empathise with how they got to be where they are but I don't like it.

I've been a pawn and puppet in their game so I know they can't be trusted.

I'm so sorry this happened to you ITexperiment.  Somehow, you have come through it without repeating the process.  Somehow, you are not what they tried to make you.

You give me hope.

Sela