Reading The Narcissistic Family, Getting Triggered

[lynne]

Yes mum, most definately....  if my dad had left my n mom and taken us kids, he would have saved us so much pain.  Even though he is codependent, he still would have saved us pain.  There would have been a safe place and even though she could have still played the games, we would have had a break.     

[dogbit]

OMG, yes.  My Dad was not perfect but he definitely would have been a good parent, or, as I now call it, the "good enough" parent.  He was a nice guy and he liked me!   He drank a lot  but was never abusive to me.  Actually he was quite jolly when he drank.  I did trust him.  As a parent now, I feel regret about having my girls grow up with a totally absorbed father who never really wanted them and only showed off the "golden one".  The other two were invisible to him.  And now, when I get maudling, I moan that I was a bad mother and they roll their eyes and say no, you were a good mother.  Dad was the A&$#le.  So maybe we're breaking the cycle at last!  I don't know that things would have been different.  I think they would have.  I would have had a lot more confidence and self-esteem.  Somedays, I get this feeling I could have been a "contender".  Fortunately, I had a neighbor family hover over me.  They could see what was going on and helped me to grow with them being really great role models.  Bit

[October]

If your other non N/non co dependent parent (if there was one, or we could pretend there was one) had divorced that N, and you were then in a situation of seeing two households, one ruled by an N and one by a fairly normal person, do you think things would have turned out different?

Rather overtly, I am wondering about my own kids, my own situation.

This one might not be too comforting, but I think if my dad had divorced my Nmum, we would have gone with her, and been worse off than with him around.  On the other hand, if we had stayed with dad, I am certain he would have found another Nwife.  He was never normal.  He was always a co looking for an N.

The only hope for the children in the scenario you describe is if the NonN parent acquires some form of self knowledge, imo, to enable the cycle to be broken.

[Lyshorathi]

Mum:

I was 14 when my nonN father left my N mother.  After six months of living alone with her, and with no small help from my therapist (which, ironically, I had begun to see because of the psychosomatic ulcer I had developed due to my mother's abuse), I made the choice to live with my father. 

At that time she was living in a nice house roughly half a mile from my school.  My father was living in an apartment with a 45-minute commute to town and a neighbor that spent a significant amount of time blaring something the sounded suspiciously like carnival music.  With my mother I had my own bedroom, entertainment room, and bathroom... and never a single moment of privacy that wasn't accompanied by my mother banging on the locked door crying her eyes out.  With my father I slept on a leaky air mattress in a room that doubled as a storage space for stained glass... I consider a sliver of glass in my foot every six months adequate payment for finally being able to dance around in my room without the fear of being watched.

Living with my father wasn't, and still isn't, a fairly tale.  The years of being married to my mother made him afraid to assert any parental authority and unable to accept criticism.  Furthermore, because he had trouble admitting to himself that my mother was as bad as she was, it took six years for him to stop pushing me to make a reconciliation.  This all was made doubly hard by the fact that I had a strong case of hero worship regarding my father (he had, after all, given me a place to go).  It was devastating to face just how human he was and how deep his scars ran.

The point I am attempting to illustrate through rather babbly means is this:
Living with my dad was hard and hurt like hell on a regular basis.  Since I moved in with him I've been forced to deal with my feelings, learn to assert myself, accept other's imperfections, and spot broken glass while attempting to execute an off-balance pirouette.
Living with my mother was physically comfortable and spiritually destructive.  Had I stayed with her, I have no doubt that what little strength I still had would have been crushed out of me, along with any chance I had to teach myself to seek peace and happiness.

I can't say it would be the same for everybody.  I had a damn good therapist and was both old enough and self-aware enough to know that my house was dangerous.  I would like to believe, however, that in a situation with a nonN parent and child who are aware enough to leave an N dynamic, that they will also be able to avoid the brunt of the pain and abuse generated by said dynamic.

[mum]

Lyshorathi, thank you for your story.  Yhave no idea what your tale has done to empower me in my intention (not going to go into it now, but you have really helped). 

After 3 weeks away with me, during which my daughter spoke a lot about missing her dad, we are now back and she had a four night visit with my ex (N). Today (after the usual one transition day of  being uptight) my d broke down and cried (about a lot of things) and she brought up how controlling and angry her dad is about a multitude of things.

I never for a second wonder if getting out of that marriage nine years ago was good for my kids, but I have decisions to make about our future and you have helped me a lot.

[mum]

I should have added as well, a thanks to all of you who responded to my question. I have so much hope for my kids.

[miss piggy]

Hi Mum,

Just wanted to share a little ofmy story.  My Ndad is a rageaholic.  But I am beginning to wonder if my mother is a "covert N".  The reason I wonder is because my father's domineering ways were an advantage as long as it was directed to others outside the home or at us kids.  We either deflected or hid.  In some ways, I think my father tried to spare us by leaving us alone (neglecting us) because he knew we would just annoy him, you know, by being kids.  nuthin in it for him. 

Now that my father doesn't have anyone to fight with, my mother is in the crosshairs and wants someone to rescue her (just like my father rescued her years ago from her very dysfunctional family).  Thankfully my T has worked with me to get me over the need to feel responsible for other people's feelings, to help in a way that doesn't put me at risk, and basically encourage my mother to cope while not letting her off the hook.  In other words, I tell myself she married him, not me.  She doesn't need my permission to leave him. 

If she had left him earlier though, I still had my N sibling to deal with, whom she adored.  She loves a fighter to do the fighting for her.    All that said, my mother and I are close.  that's it for now...MP

[Sallying Forth]

The only hope for the children in the scenario you describe is if the NonN parent acquires some form of self knowledge, imo, to enable the cycle to be broken.

I think this is true in my situation. There would have to be some kind of growth on the part of the NonN parent or they would choose the same situation again. I believe my dad would have picked another N. He was N but the least of the two Ns, if there is such a thing.

Although here is a twist on that. My step-son grew up with my husband and I. His mother is a N. Who did he marry a N! Eek!

As much growth as my H and I did, that didn't seem to break the cycle. My step-son still married a N! His Nm did a lot of horrible things to him including literal brainwashing! The Nm married a N who is a creeping pedophile and an abuser to the children and the Nm.

I don't know if I have a conclusion for this -- maybe it takes more than breaking the cycle? Maybe it takes absolutely no contact with the children's Nparent? A certain type of personality in a child? No overt abuse? A combination of several things?

During childhood my step-son had therapy for about 5 years and that helped a little. However his meddling Nm constantly tried to undo everything which had helped him. He's in therapy now as an adult after he decided to d his Nwife. They had been married less than a year but lived together for 5 years.