Protecting our kids from their Nparent

[October]

***Icky yucky stuff***

My ex rang tonight to talk to C (12).  She started repeating out loud what he was saying, so I could hear, and I went over and held my hand out, and she smiled, and gave me the phone.

He said, what's wrong, you said she wants to know the truth.  So I said, David, if I told you I had just been to the bathroom, that would be enough.  Would you need to know all the details?  Same with her.  She is just a child.  You do not tell her gory medical details, just the bare facts; you went for treatment; it was fine/not so good; you came home again.  You do not tell her your foot split open during chemo and started oozing white stuff.  (Sorry for anyone who finds that distasteful.  To be honest, so do I.  But I have nobody I can tell this stuff to.  There is nobody left.) 

So we talked (again) about the difference between adults and children, and how adults support the children, not the other way round.  He is never going to understand this one.

This situation has me feeling well and truly hooked; he is pulling our strings, and because he has a valid reason for me to feel sympathy, I cannot disengage completely.  He is dying, in a very nasty way, and I can't bear the pain of this; not only his pain, but my daughter's and mine.

He has been given 8 - 10 months if the chemo doesn't work, but this situation today makes me think that is optimistic, and I think it may be less.  C needs him to be at her Confirmation in September, so I hope we have that long at least.  We posted the invitations for that today.

On the positive side, C is dealing with this very well, and is talking with me more and more.  She has also been more cuddly the past few days, which I think is good.  We seem to be getting closer, after a few difficult weeks, and I think she feels safe to say anything she needs to or wants to say.  We went to visit the local cemeteries yesterday and today, to see what they look like.  That might sound strange, but she wanted to go, so I said ok, and we went.  We also visited some favourite parks, where she used to go with her dad when he lived locally, to see whether they might be places to go to remember him.

Very difficult not to step into rescuing mode.  Too late.  Sitting on my hands and remembering that I made him leave because I knew this day would come, and wanted to protect C from it.  Too late.

[d'smom]

hi october. ive been thinking about you so much with this. just trying to be supportive. i think going to see a cemetary was a good idea. its a way to prepare and see that its a real thing and a real place and that its happened to lots of others.

i just think that was a good idea. one thing weve learned i guess is you just cant protect your kids ultimately... so - you have to figiure out how to help them through it in the most strengthening way.

this will be tough all around i know, the toughest, but im sending you all what good thoughts i can.  i wish they would have an emoticon for a heart.
d'smom

[October]

hi october. ive been thinking about you so much with this. just trying to be supportive. i think going to see a cemetary was a good idea. its a way to prepare and see that its a real thing and a real place and that its happened to lots of others.

i just think that was a good idea. one thing weve learned i guess is you just cant protect your kids ultimately... so - you have to figiure out how to help them through it in the most strengthening way.

this will be tough all around i know, the toughest, but im sending you all what good thoughts i can.  i wish they would have an emoticon for a heart.
d'smom

Thanks, D's mum.  I really appreciate your understanding.

C is concerned to have somewhere to go to visit her dad's remains afterwards, rather than as it stands, when he says he wants his ashes scattered on a motor racing circuit, a long way from here.  I have told her to think about it, and then the next time we see him we can talk it through, and they can decide between them.

It has to be sensible to sort this out in advance, rather than having to make decisions in a rush, or leave her feeling that there is nowhere to go to be near him.

I think she is being very mature and sensible, but also she is being a child.  She feels she has to be able to go to where he is, to take flowers.

[bunny]

October,

You're doing a great job preparing C for the inevitable. That's all we can do, when something is definitely going to happen. One q, did you know he wanted his ashes scattered over a racecourse when you visited the cemetery? Maybe you could go to the racecourse now. There is no way David can comprehend that he's an adult, and I don't think he's going to learn at this point. Maybe you can tell C to hand you the phone immediately when he starts describing graphic details. It seems she's already wanting to do that. I wouldn't bother trying to teach him not to do it. I think he can't control himself. He probably has no one to talk to about it, so is exploiting her, and can't stop out of desperation and his own immaturity. So she may have to cut him off by handing over the phone. Just my feeling.

Hang in there.

bunny

[mum]

October, just wanted to say, that I think you are doing a remarkable job as a mom.  Your daughter is so fortunate.  You have a good pattern of being the adult in this situation, and your daughter can count on that, and clearly feels safe with that.

[October]

October,

You're doing a great job preparing C for the inevitable. That's all we can do, when something is definitely going to happen.
Hang in there.

bunny

Thanks, Bunny.  Yes, C was there when he told us, at the time I was helping him to write his will.  At the time we both accepted that as what he wanted, but since then C has thought about it, and she wants somewhere that she can go to visit, and close enough for her to go on her own whenever she wants to.  We may have to compromise by having half in each place, who knows?  The main thing is she needs to talk to David and they can decide between them what happens, in advance of the time.

You are right that he is not going to learn now.  He is too ill, and his mind has gone too much for rational thought to take over, or for him to put her needs before his own.  I may have to screen the calls and do the 'how are you' bit before she speaks to him.     I don't mind giving him some sympathy if he wants it; I am in a better position to do that than C is, because I know much more about how this has been brought about, and that it has been his choice from the start.  Like it or not, he is getting what he knew would happen, and was warned about over and over again.  That doesn't make it any easier, but it helps me to stay a bit more detached - I made him leave to protect us both from this scenario, and that is still my job.   

[October]

October, just wanted to say, that I think you are doing a remarkable job as a mom.  Your daughter is so fortunate.  You have a good pattern of being the adult in this situation, and your daughter can count on that, and clearly feels safe with that.

Thanks, mum.  It is getting better.  At the start of all this she said she couldn't talk to me about it, but in fact we have done a lot of talking, and a lot of sharing.  I think she is coping very well. 

One thing she said is that she would like a small amount of the ashes in a plantpot in her bedroom, with a plant growing in it.  That one was a little unusual,     but I just said, if dad agrees, why not?      That is the child in her.  Same as all of this, really.  Wanting to not let go of everything; to keep a part of him close to her.  I think we all do this with people who die.  I may change that one to a photograph, though.   

And part of it is fun; looking at the headstones, and saying, 'I wouldn't be seen dead with a stone like that!!'  And choosing what kind of wording; that also helps before the event, rather than afterwards.  And we talk about our own mortality too; what we would prefer when the time comes.  And we see the graves of the little children, and feel sorry for their parents, to realise that death is something that touches everyone, even though nobody ever talks about it.


 

[miss piggy]

Hello October,

I feel like you and your daughter are handling this difficult situation heroically (not stoically).  I'm really wow'd by your daughter's beautiful and creative responses to a relative's imminent death, and you for honoring her thoughts.  I know the plant thing seems offbeat, but what a beautiful symbol to create life out of the ashes, like the phoenix.  Like she's growing from the experience arising from her dad's situation.

A priest once told me that people try to hide death from their kids like it's bad, when it's part of the natural cycle of things.  The separation and loss can be sad, but it isn't "bad" because it's a natural part of things.  From your messages, it doesn't sound like you or your daughter are being morbid or anything.  And infact, you are teaching that experiencing death of a important person in your life is hard and worth thinking about, vs. denial and/or treating it like a catastrophe that "shouldn't" have happened. 

It's also so so wonderful that you are showing your daughter, through your response to your X, that what he is saying isn't proper or normal.  She may be feeling uncomfortable and wondering why, and just your taking over as an adult (how refreshing!) and letting her be the child, lets her know SHE'S okay and HER response is normal and healthy.  You didn't deny what was happening either.  Wow.

No one would want this for their child, but here it is, and you are really a great model for the rest of us.  I didn't handle the death of my d's goldfish very well--she was quite upset...well, that's a different story and not very relevant! 

I really admire your work on this.  Best, MP

[October]

No one would want this for their child, but here it is, and you are really a great model for the rest of us.  I didn't handle the death of my d's goldfish very well--she was quite upset...well, that's a different story and not very relevant! 

I really admire your work on this.  Best, MP

Thank you.  Blushing like mad now.

Here is my goldfish story.  I wrote it out before but deleted it because I thought it might be flippant, but I will include it, and then you can tell yours.  (I may have posted this before.    )

When C was about 5 she had a goldfish called GoldySparkle, and it eventually died.  We put it into a matchbox and buried it in the garden.  Anyway, so far so good.  Then the next day she asked me if she could dig it up again to see what it looked like.      So I thought about it, and couldn't find a reason why not, so I said ok.  She dug up the matchbox, with me beside her, wondering whether I was being weird in letting her do this.  We opened the box and it was empty.  Just an orange shadow on the cardboard, where the fish had dissolved or disintegrated.  Then we buried it again, and I planted a rose bush on top of it.

That was a long time ago, but she still remembers GoldySparkle with fondness.     No such thing as irrelevant when we are talking about our children and their love.

[d'smom]

One thing she said is that she would like a small amount of the ashes in a plantpot in her bedroom, with a plant growing in it.  That one was a little unusual,     but I just said, if dad agrees, why not?      That is the child in her.  Same as all of this, really.  Wanting to not let go of everything; to keep a part of him close to her.  I think we all do this with people who die.  I may change that one to a photograph, though.   

hey october :} these are all good ideas actually!  i was actually going to suggest a plant - planting maybe a small  tree somewhere you can get to easily - not sure how that would work where you are.... i was thinking a plant was really a nice idea but id make it a plant that was really hardy and long lived like a bonsai or something that would really last.

you could put a small  amount of ashes in a locket, or anything else that you could all agree on. i guess its the feeling that matters. depending how healthy he feels they could pick out something together.

its nice to giggle at the headstones just a little ->>  thats just what we would do i think :} 
anyway take care
d'smom

[miss piggy]

Hi October,

The fish was gone?  Just a streak of gold?

We wouldn't know because ours were buried at sea.     We started with two small carnival sized fish in a small tank.  About 10 gallons.  That was our first mistake, the small impossible-to-equalize-the-chemistry tank.  Other people I know just do the bowl and change the water once in a while and their fish live 10 years! 

So.  one little fishy is bopping up and down like a yo-yo.  not good.  I steel myself to tell my six year old that it was time to send Goldy off with a grand salute and say Thanks for the Memories.  God bless.  I had never seen tears spurt out fully airborne before.  I try to explain the circle of life thing again.  More spurting.  Tonsils wagging now.

I grab the phone book and look up the Emergency vet clinic in our area. 
"I have a six year old in distress!" 
"Is that a cat, dog or hamster, mam?" 
"No, it's my six year old's fish...it's bobbing up and down.  I gotta save it." 
"Um, we don't handle fish, but you could try a fish store..." 
"Great!  Thanks!"

I rush to a fish store with very knowledgable people.  I leave with $20 of fish antibiotics and some advice: "Next time, don't name the fish!" 

MP
PS I think we have successfully turned this topic upside down...   Sorry!

[October]

Hi October,

I rush to a fish store with very knowledgable people.  I leave with $20 of fish antibiotics and some advice: "Next time, don't name the fish!" 

MP
PS I think we have successfully turned this topic upside down...   Sorry!

That's ok.  Threads have a life of their own, like children.  Always a mistake to try to control them!!   

So, what happened to Goldy?  Did it survive?  C has had several fish since GoldySparkle, and to be honest we can't now remember all their names.  Meg (latest addition) is not looking too lively at present, but hopefully she will improve.  Fickle things, goldfish.   

[miss piggy]

Hello O,

Well, the sequel to the story is the antibiotics turned the tank into a toxic waste site.  So Goldy bobbed up and down in dark green, cloudy water.  I read later that the cure can be deadlier than the illness for fish...it was a wonder that Goldy's companion survived all this TLC.  When the fish people sold me the medicine, they said they would replace the sick fish (which didn't come from their shop) for free.  That should have been a clue. 

Well, Goldy took the Big Swim after all, so I brought my D to the shop to pick out a new one.  All of their goldfish outweighed Goldy et al by at least 4 times their size.     So we bring home this whopper that could have fed all four of us for dinner.  Introduce him gently to the tank and the other fish with a plastic baggie separating them.  I was meticulous, I tell you!  When he was free to swim with the bereaved, it practically caused a tsunami.

Longer story short, two more episodes of bobbing fish and a "hospital" tank later, I figure three strikes, I'm out.  No more fishy failures for me.   I was starting to feel like some serial killer, you know, like "come home with me and see what happens!"  I told D I had to recognize my limitations as a mother.  I can only do mammals.  I don't know if a six year old understands whatever that means, but I felt better.    

You still do fish?  Sigh.  Another reason to admire and envy you,    MP

[October]

Hello O

You still do fish?  Sigh.  Another reason to admire and envy you,    MP

No need to envy me anything.  Yes, we are attempting the fish once more, but it is not looking too lively.  However, it is still there.   

[gnostic]

  C needs him to be at her Confirmation in September, so I hope we have that long at least.  We posted the invitations for that today.

 

semantics.... did not suffice for me to understand why "C NEEDS him to be" there
 so why does he NEED  to be there...
i was kind of thinkin ifn he be an ex that he might not need to be there...
unless in the eyes of the church he is not an ex....